The Decline of Ufology: Decades of Fraud, Frustration and Failure?

originally posted by: trueskepticnumberone
Over the decades, people have given accounts of scores of different types of aliens. Oddly enough, most of them humanoid. But not all humanoid, some encounters have been with beings extremely strange. They fall far from the average report, but they are out there.

I can agree with that. Which brings us back to your original comment that I responded to in starting this conversation:

originally posted by: trueskepticnumberone
Ask a person on the street what an alien looks like, and they will accurately describe a grey. Thanks, ufology.

And once again, as you say there have been many different "aliens" reported but a "person on the street" describing a grey when asked what an alien looks like is doing so because that has become the typical image presented in pop culture.

I might also add that what has become the standard rendition of a "grey" is something that has gradually coalesced. There are many reports chalked up as "Greys" where the images produced or endorsed by the witnesses vary considerably. This becomes more true the further back you go which indicates this might not be exclusively the reporting of objective reality.

a reply to: DelMarvel

And once again, as you say there have been many different "aliens" reported but a "person on the street" describing a grey when asked what an alien looks like is doing so because that has become the typical image presented in pop culture.

Once again, no. The reason grey aliens appear in popular culture is because people have encountered these aliens, and ufologists have made that information available to the public. Not the other way around.

Whitley Streiber's Communion, which had an enormous cultural impact, was instrumental in exposing the grey alien to a very wide audience.

There are many reports chalked up as "Greys" where the images produced or endorsed by the witnesses vary considerably. This becomes more true the further back you go which indicates this might not be exclusively the reporting of objective reality.

I addressed this point already. There are various types of greys, differing in height, abilities, and stature. And at this late stage in the program, there are several different generations of mixed aliens and humans, some mostly grey, some indistinguishable from human.

a reply to: trueskepticnumberone

Sounds a bit chicken-eggy to me.

I'll go with the egg. Oh but wait, what laid it?

Whitley Streiber's Communion, which had an enormous cultural impact, was instrumental in exposing the grey alien to a very wide audience.

An enormous cultural impact on whom? Harry Potter had a pretty large impact too, if you want to be honest about it.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: trueskepticnumberone

Sounds a bit chicken-eggy to me.

I'll go with the egg. Oh but wait, what laid it?

Whitley Streiber's Communion, which had an enormous cultural impact, was instrumental in exposing the grey alien to a very wide audience.

An enormous cultural impact on whom? Harry Potter had a pretty large impact too, if you want to be honest about it.

Yes it did, I'm not sure what your point is.

I never said that everyone who saw Communion accepted it as true, only that it presented a very wide audience with the image of grey aliens.
It did differ greatly from Harry Potter in that the audience understood that Communion was non-fiction.

a reply to: trueskepticnumberone

It did differ greatly from Harry Potter in that the audience understood that Communion was non-fiction.

Not me. I found it a rollicking riot of entertainment.
I also saw the cover illustration plastered all over the place and so did a lot of people who didn't read the book.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: trueskepticnumberone

It did differ greatly from Harry Potter in that the audience understood that Communion was non-fiction.

Not me. I found it a rollicking riot of entertainment.
I also saw the cover illustration plastered all over the place and so did a lot of people who didn't read the book.

I'm sure you did. Many people saw that image of a grey alien for the first time on that book cover and it caused them to realize their own alien encounters.
Communion was a number one best-seller on the New York Times non-fiction list.

a reply to: trueskepticnumberone

Communion was a number one best-seller on the New York Times non-fiction list.

Yes. It was number one. For two weeks.
Yes. It was on the non-fiction list.

Why was it on the non-fiction list? Because Strieber said it was all true. That's it. Do you think it was there because someone vetted his story?

a reply to: Phage


Wasn't Chariots of the Gods? a worldwide bestseller in the non-fiction category?


Sooo... ancient Aliens are real, right?

originally posted by: trueskepticnumberone

I never said that everyone who saw Communion accepted it as true, only that it presented a very wide audience with the image of grey aliens.

Doesn't that also support the point I've been making? You have this image plastered all over the popular culture and suddenly that's what a lot of people report encountering?

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: trueskepticnumberone

I never said that everyone who saw Communion accepted it as true, only that it presented a very wide audience with the image of grey aliens.

Doesn't that also support the point I've been making? You have this image plastered all over the popular culture and suddenly that's what a lot of people report encountering?

The field is hopelessly contaminated by pop culture and fringe media.

When I hear someone telling about their encounter and they start using jargon like "experiencer" or "high strangeness" I stop listening. It is prejudical of me, but usually such prejudices turn out to be justified.

a reply to: trueskepticnumberone

Once again, no. The reason grey aliens appear in popular culture is because people have encountered these aliens, and ufologists have made that information available to the public. Not the other way around.

Alien abductions are a confabulation between the abductee and the abduction researcher. "Recovered memories" have never been shown to have any basis in reality. The whole "abduction phenomenon" has been built on this false idea and literally made up by guys like Jacobs and Hopkins. There is no doubt that people can experience things. I like to call them experiencers of high strangeness...or people that dream.

The biggest issue I have with the field of Ufology is that it's ridiculed despite the clear and obvious scientific benefit from studying it.

Well, where exactly did Steven Spielberg get his idea for aliens?

I've always read that it was from eyewitness accounts of alien encounters, but I'm fairly familiar with most of them from the 1960's and early 1970's I don't recall any that describe aliens the way they're presented in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Sure, we had your "little green men," little people such as those described at Roswell, little creatures in space suits, the odd humanoids from the Betty and Barney Hill abductions, human-like beings from Antonio Villas-Boas and the contactees. But not your standard grey alien.

I wonder exactly where that came from.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Well, where exactly did Steven Spielberg get his idea for aliens?

I've always read that it was from eyewitness accounts of alien encounters, but I'm fairly familiar with most of them from the 1960's and early 1970's I don't recall any that describe aliens the way they're presented in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Sure, we had your "little green men," little people such as those described at Roswell, little creatures in space suits, the odd humanoids from the Betty and Barney Hill abductions, human-like beings from Antonio Villas-Boas and the contactees. But not your standard grey alien.

I wonder exactly where that came from.

I've actually been curious about that as a result of this thread and have been trying to look into it.

Was the final look the creation of special effects artist Carlo Rambaldi? Was it based on witness accounts as you suggest? Does anyone have links about that? I can't find any.

www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Well, where exactly did Steven Spielberg get his idea for aliens?

I've always read that it was from eyewitness accounts of alien encounters, but I'm fairly familiar with most of them from the 1960's and early 1970's I don't recall any that describe aliens the way they're presented in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Sure, we had your "little green men," little people such as those described at Roswell, little creatures in space suits, the odd humanoids from the Betty and Barney Hill abductions, human-like beings from Antonio Villas-Boas and the contactees. But not your standard grey alien.

I wonder exactly where that came from.

I've actually been curious about that as a result of this thread and have been trying to look into it.

Was the final look the creation of special effects artist Carlo Rambaldi? Was it based on witness accounts as you suggest? Does anyone have links about that? I can't find any.

www.theguardian.com...

A brief blurb about it on pg 17-18

www.cufos.org...

......and back to the OP's question. Found an interview by Michael Sword that pretty much sums it up for me. Tho the interview was back in 1995, it hold true today.

20-September-1995

1. State of UFOlogy today/Goals today?

"UFOlogy": a serious, objective, scholarly study of the UFO phenomenon.

There is essentially no UFOlogy today, and rarely has there ever been. There is much pseudo-UFOlogy (lacking in objectivity or any sense of the history of the subject or the scope of previous research and other relevant disciplines), and even more UFOria (sort of a wide-eyed gee whiz fooling around with "wonders").

The few UFOlogists who are active (persons such as Mark Rodeghier, Stuart Appelle, Eddie Bullard, and a handful of others) find themselves isolated in an intellectual desert filled with UFOric persons who are constantly jumping beyond the evidence, and insisting upon concrete answers to questions such as those later in this "interview". Not that this interview "insists" in this way).

The few UFOlogists who do exist should come together as a separate research community and remove themselves as much as possible from the greater carnival which continuously defeats their attempts to achieve credibility.

www.cufon.org...

Despite his plugs for people he collaborates with, this statement pretty well nails it.

a reply to: Phage

Why was it on the non-fiction list? Because Strieber said it was all true. That's it.

Yep. Your point? Do you feel it should not have been on the non-fiction list? Why?

originally posted by: draknoir2
a reply to: Phage


Wasn't Chariots of the Gods? a worldwide bestseller in the non-fiction category?


Sooo... ancient Aliens are real, right?

Probably, yes.

Boy, it's a shame the New York Times don't check with people living in denial before they put books on the non-fiction list.

originally posted by: trueskepticnumberone

originally posted by: draknoir2
a reply to: Phage


Wasn't Chariots of the Gods? a worldwide bestseller in the non-fiction category?


Sooo... ancient Aliens are real, right?

Probably, yes.

Boy, it's a shame the New York Times don't check with people living in denial before they put books on the non-fiction list.

They should have checked with the people living on de nile since they built the pyramids.

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: trueskepticnumberone

I never said that everyone who saw Communion accepted it as true, only that it presented a very wide audience with the image of grey aliens.

Doesn't that also support the point I've been making? You have this image plastered all over the popular culture and suddenly that's what a lot of people report encountering?

Now I'm convinced you are deliberately trying to put the cart before the horse.
The reason that image was presented to a wide audience was because thousands of people encountered these aliens before the book was published, including Whitley Streiber, who wrote the book.

Now, follow closely, because you seem to get lost here: Once a realistic depiction of a grey was seen in every bookstore, more people who had encountered these aliens became less afraid to speak up, and wrote to Streiber for help and resources to discuss their encounter.

In fact, here's proof that they were genuine, and not jumping on Streiber's bandwagon:

THOUSANDS of the people who contacted Streiber in the wake of his book had the exact same complaint - the cranium needed to be bigger.

That settles that point quite effectively.