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Ancient Egyptians in America? The Burrows Cave Mysteries, Illinois

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posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 09:20 PM
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originally posted by: Plotus
.
claiming African lineage and discounting the land bridge crossing from Asia into Alaska and the southern migration to create all the North American Indians and the Incan empires of Central America.
.


But, of course, modern genetic research has confirmed that Native Americans are descended from Siberians which confirms the migration from Asia and disproves the Book of Mormon and similar theories.




posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 10:37 PM
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a reply to: DelMarvel Like I said ......"Do I believe this?" not really, I have read extensively on it though. And yea the Mormons would love to substantiate their claims. But I believe it's doubtful their claims will bear truth.



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 10:39 PM
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Genetic research clearly bears out what you say. I believe that's a given.

Sorry, kind of got off track there...... My take on the Cave in question and the artifacts claimed to have originated there on site......
I think they are fakes.
edit on 27-10-2015 by Plotus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 06:54 AM
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a reply to: Plotus

Sorry. I should have specified that I assumed you knew that.

I just wanted to point that out for anyone who may not have been aware of it.



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: DelMarvel
I don't see the logic of your argument - unless of course you're trying to be funny.

Try not to use the 'debunked' to make a point - it tends to destroy the credibility of any post.



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 09:20 AM
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originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: Plotus
.
claiming African lineage and discounting the land bridge crossing from Asia into Alaska and the southern migration to create all the North American Indians and the Incan empires of Central America.
.


But, of course, modern genetic research has confirmed that Native Americans are descended from Siberians which confirms the migration from Asia and disproves the Book of Mormon and similar theories.



Modern genetic research has got it exactly backwards,siberians descended from native americans.Do the siberians have temples or cities made of gigantic stone?Do siberians have a written language?I rest my case.



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 10:35 AM
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So the cave was documented in 1925 and a couple of locals showed some guy where it was at and the guy "Found his way inside the cave" I guess that would have been the opening in the front. And then he discovered a ton and a half of gold inside that everybody else seems to have missed. Marion county doesn't sound like a hub of activity and if there was anything inside that cave, every kid with a bicycle would have visited it. No armor, arrow or spear heads, graves or artifacts too big to carry? Everything on that table looks easily transportable. Why would people who just sailed all the way across the ocean just bypass the first land they saw and go all the way up a river to stop somewhere else? Calling other people neanderthals seems a bit...defensive. Sorry, I don't believe what this guys saying and those artifacts look like they where ground out in somebodies basement.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 10:03 PM
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While admittedly not an art expert no Greco Roman Egyptian art looked anything like the Burrows cave stone art , and Cleo and her people need not flee the Nile much less the Med to find refuge in some obscure part of the American mainland escaping the wrath of Augustus legions, however this may be of interest in the Ooparts thread, we do have this striking similarity with the ankh of the Kemetians with something similar among the Aztecs...Not saying the two are connected. which the link tried to make a claim for.


The Egyptian ankh cross…in Mexico? That’s right. The ruins of a mysterious Aztec temple bears a strange and striking resemblance to Egypt’s ankh cross. This Aztec ankh temple is perfectly aligned with an Egyptian-like stone pyramid at the same archaeological site. Scholars doubt any Aztec connection to the Egyptians, since both cultures evolved on opposite sides of the Atlantic Ocean, and were never in contact. Yet, strangely, the meaning of this Aztec ankh seems suspiciously parallel to the meaning behind Egypt’s ankh cros - See more at: www.richardcassaro.com...

I cannot quantify the author's claim of the Aztec Ankh having the same meaning as the kemetian one I need multiple sources for that, but 19th century folks were not above from faking stuff there was a lot of Egyptomania and Cleopatramania going around for while the guy in the vid is convinced that the artifacts are real it does not mean they are in fact genuine.
See Man riding Dinos

I Am sure many will be convinced of that the above is authentic even enough to make a vid on it.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 11:09 PM
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a reply to: Unionfeatures

The late Philip Coppens said that there is no evidence that Burrows faked the stones...

I completely agree.



Finally, Fred Rydholm was able to report a significant breakthrough with two young Florida researchers, Paul Schaffranke and Brian Hubbard, who were successful in deciphering some of the inscriptions. Schaffranke and Hubbard recognized them as being one of several ancient Etruscan alphabets which could be translated into "street Latin", as used around the time of Christ.

The two Florida men were able to translate stone tablets from the Burrows Cave that the great epigrapher, Dr. Barry Fell and others, had insisted were gibberish and could not be translated. Mixed in amongst the Etruscan script there is also the added mystery of Hebrew and Egyptian stone tablets.

These were also recently identified and are being translated by Dr. Arnold Murray of Arkansas and, Zena Halpern, a Hebrew scholar from New York. The Egyptian material is still being assessed. Over half a dozen professional archeologists and linguists have now examined the collection and have been definite in their support of the artifacts’ authenticity.

At last contact, the Burrow’s team had dug out and classified an astonishing four thousand stone tablets. Another breakthrough came, when a retired engineer Bill Kreisle, found several of the stones recorded accurate maps of the Mississippi River system as it appeared 2000 years ago.

Another map stone shows a river on the Iberian Peninsula (Spain) with the ancient city of Cadiz near its mouth. But, most astonishing of all, they have reported the discovery of several stone crypts, excavated from limestone deep in the cave system, containing a number of interred skeletons with jewellery, artifacts and statuary.

The Burrows Cave Enigma

It is all too easy to label Burrows a hoaxer. People who have known and worked with him have called him many things, but not a fabricator of evidence or a liar. Only his sceptics focus too heavily on them, whereas they should be focusing instead on whether or not he could actually have fabricated any, let alone such huge numbers of, inscribed stones.

The sceptics would call it an "obvious hoax" and the proponents would call it "clear evidence", finally proving their respective arguments, whatever they may be. For sceptics to cry foul, they need to come up with better than "obvious" statements. There is no evidence that Burrows faked the stones.

If it is all a hoax, the sceptics will need to provide evidence instead of repeatedly using the word "obvious". Still, even if the cave system is there, it may perhaps be lost to us forever. Any operation that could be mounted to provide a conclusive answer would cost an extraordinary amount of money— and such resources are "obviously" not in the hands of the diffusionists. So it seems that, once again, the establishment has won the fight— and that may be the only obvious thing about this entire story.

The Burrows cave: African gold in Illinois

This is the best preserved artifact for the exact face structue of King Zaphnath-Paaneah of Egypt that has ever been discovered. King Zaphnath-Paaneah of Egypy wrote he found another place for Egyptians to live because Egypt had become over populated when he was 36 years old. This date would be around 1744 BC. Three broke peices of this same face structure and Crown style were found in the Ruins at Aravis Egypt, where he ruled Egypt for 48 years.

The Mormons have records for him including some of his writings. Information for his 12 Trips to a foreign Land was in a Gold Book that was part of the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery were new records for him. The Artifact was identified as a Artifact for King Zaphnath of Egypt who was Joseph in the Bible. ( Pharoah name Joseph, Zaphenat-Pa'aneah,)

Burrows Cave real or fake

...most of the USA 50 states have Ancient Egyptian names. I have no proof, only circumstantial plausible evidence that these Egyptian names are names used by the Indian tribes in their original Egyptian/Babylonian context. The ancient tribes of the Western and Eastern hemispheres appear to be identical in theology, music, fashions, pottery, language, burial techniques, naming conventions, and in some rare instances, alphabets and clay tablets!

Complicating the translations from Egyptian hieroglyphics to English phonetic pronunciations, is the fact that vowels did not exist in the Egyptian language in hieroglyphic form. As I understand it, vowels were considered sacred by the Egyptians, and not to be written down. The Greeks in 750 BC "invented" the written form of vowels.

USA 50 states have Egyptian names

Grand Canyon National Park was named an official National Park in 1919. The National Park Service has a Policy of preserving the History of Native American Indians when establishing Parks. They lived on the North Kiabab Rim of the Grand Canyon where the Egyptian Pyramids are located. And they knew the names of the Egyptian Pyramid Temple names that are located under the North Kiabab Rim of the Grand Canyon. The Hopi Indians have a God named Taawa. He has a Mans Face that smiles all of the time and has a good Heart.

The Hopi Indians still use a large number of original Egyptian words in their Language. The Tower of Set, actualy the ( Seteprene ) Pryamid was named by the Hopi Indians. The Tower of Set, was be built in the Grand Canyon as a burial Tomb for King Seteprene that came to the Grand Canyon. But King Seteprene died on a Trip back to Shemau. All of the Egyptian Hiegroglyphs have eroded off of the Pyramid. The Set Pyramid has Rectangle Shape simular to the first Pyramids in Egypt.

Ancient Egyptians, Grand Canyon - Ancient Egyptians in America



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: Murgatroid
No offense, but you ought to find some more reliable sources. Most of those bits you quoted are laughably incorrect.



posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 01:19 AM
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a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

Credible academic sources are laughably incorrect.

Which is why I no longer trust a single thing they say.

You would do well to take your own advice as well.

I'll take non-fiction over science-fiction any day.

Your faith in the fundamentalist cult of 'Scientism' will only disappoint you in the end.


"...the Illuminati eventually controlled the science departments in all colleges and institutions of higher learning. The plan was to stifle scientific knowledge and then twist what was left to fit the science they wanted the people to believe.

Science - The Illuminati Religion and Mind Control Tool for the Masses

The High Priests perform their statistical rituals and the cultists genuflect reverently before their idol, Science. And it's all very impressive until the truth is discovered... spectator.org...



posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 04:39 AM
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a reply to: Murgatroid

"Zaphnath-Paaneah" is the name given to Joseph by the Pharoah. Not an Egyptian king.

Just one of the many reasons your source is suspect.

Harte



posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 08:43 AM
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originally posted by: Murgatroid
a reply to: Unionfeatures
These were also recently identified and are being translated by Dr. Arnold Murray of Arkansas and, Zena Halpern, a Hebrew scholar from New York. The Egyptian material is still being assessed. Over half a dozen professional archeologists and linguists have now examined the collection and have been definite in their support of the artifacts’ authenticity.


Halpern (whose CV is known) is NOT a Hebrew scholar. atlanticconference.org...

Arnold Murray's background is suspect.

...and where are those tablets and photos, anyway?


At last contact, the Burrow’s team had dug out and classified an astonishing four thousand stone tablets. Another breakthrough came, when a retired engineer Bill Kreisle, found several of the stones recorded accurate maps of the Mississippi River system as it appeared 2000 years ago.


Yet they haven't released this, either.


If it is all a hoax, the sceptics will need to provide evidence instead of repeatedly using the word "obvious".


Easily done.



The Burrows cave: African gold in IllinoisThis is the best preserved artifact for the exact face structue of King Zaphnath-Paaneah of Egypt that has ever been discovered. King Zaphnath-Paaneah of Egypy wrote he found another place for Egyptians to live because Egypt had become over populated when he was 36 years old. This date would be around 1744 BC. Three broke peices of this same face structure and Crown style were found in the Ruins at Aravis Egypt, where he ruled Egypt for 48 years.


* "Zaphnath-Paaneah" is not an Egyptian name (there's no "z" in hieroglyphs) nor is it actually Hebrew.
* They're trying to tie this in with the 13th Dynasty and specifically with the Hyksos However, their names are in kings lists... none reigned for 48 years
* Egypt at that time had fewer than a million people. Most were living in tiny villages. There was no "overpopulation."


Information for his 12 Trips to a foreign Land was in a Gold Book that was part of the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery were new records for him.

* no such book was found with the Dead Sea Scrolls

The "artifact" is not Egyptian. I know because:
* at that time men shaved their heads and wore wigs (well attested)
* the headdress looks like something out of a comic book
* Pharaohs would wear the nemes headcloth... which that isn't. Here's a real picture of a real pharaoh wearing what this fake pharaoh SHOULD be wearing: en.wikipedia.org...#/media/File:Egypt_Barbe_Postiche.jpg
* artists in ancient Egypt learned their trade in workshops and were taught to use certain proportions. This portrait of the fake pharaoh violates these principles completely: www.pyramidofman.com...
* the eye is also drawn incorrectly
* the artist of the fake portrait has no idea how the wadjet sat on the crown.
* nor do they know how the nemes is drapes around the face (VERY unlikely for anyone in Egypt)
* the collar isn't correct, either.

I'm sure the other "artifacts" are equally wrong.


...most of the USA 50 states have Ancient Egyptian names.

Discussed here on ATS many times. These places were named by surveyors and ranch owners in the 1800's and later.


I have no proof, only circumstantial plausible evidence that these Egyptian names are names used by the Indian tribes in their original Egyptian/Babylonian context. The ancient tribes of the Western and Eastern hemispheres appear to be identical in theology, music, fashions, pottery, language, burial techniques, naming conventions, and in some rare instances, alphabets and clay tablets!


None of them have any more than a very vague similarity to Egyptian beliefs in that they all had solar deities and lunar deities and war deities. At that point the similarity ends. None of them had a solar deity that sailed sailed the underworld at night fighting off the vast snake of chaos with the help of the thunder god, cat goddesses and the spirits of the dead. None of them has a cat goddess as the warrior deity... etc, etc, etc.


Complicating the translations from Egyptian hieroglyphics to English phonetic pronunciations, is the fact that vowels did not exist in the Egyptian language in hieroglyphic form. As I understand it, vowels were considered sacred by the Egyptians, and not to be written down.

Not correct. See Gardiner's sign list - and the Manuel de Codage transliteration font. The first 4 signs are vowels.


The Hopi Indians still use a large number of original Egyptian words in their Language.

Actually, their language is Uto-Aztecan


The Tower of Set, actualy the ( Seteprene ) Pryamid was named by the Hopi Indians.

Named by Clarence Dutton, actually.



edit on 3-11-2015 by Byrd because: spelling! argh.



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 02:32 PM
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I wanted to ask: What is the deal with these linked sites on google.com like this? I'm guessing these sites are basically like a person's blog?

Here is the one linked for BC:

sites.google.com...

I actually like that page on BC because of its photos of the artifacts (and the photos convince me that they're homemade artifacts).

...

Now THIS is what I'm MOST curious about: A page that was linked on the above page for BC.

sites.google.com...

What is the deal with THOSE artifact photos? While the BC objects seem homemade, the above link is showing something entirely different. But it's also supposed to be showing Egyptian artifacts in America, like BC.

My guess is that the above page is just showing photos from real artifacts in Egypt, and just falsely claiming they're from America. Can anyone shed some light on this?



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: peacefulpete
I wanted to ask: What is the deal with these linked sites on google.com like this? I'm guessing these sites are basically like a person's blog?

Here is the one linked for BC:

sites.google.com...

I actually like that page on BC because of its photos of the artifacts (and the photos convince me that they're homemade artifacts).

...

Now THIS is what I'm MOST curious about: A page that was linked on the above page for BC.

sites.google.com...

What is the deal with THOSE artifact photos? While the BC objects seem homemade, the above link is showing something entirely different. But it's also supposed to be showing Egyptian artifacts in America, like BC.

My guess is that the above page is just showing photos from real artifacts in Egypt, and just falsely claiming they're from America. Can anyone shed some light on this?


Clearly Egyptian and certainly not from the Grand Canyon.

That tall tale is based entirely on an April Fool's Day story in the Phoenix Gazette and there is no artifactual or photographic evidence for such a cave in the area.

It would be easier to prove if the photo was not from a Google Group where it can't be linked to - you could put the pic of hieroglyphics in the Google image search otherwise and you might find what it really is.

Try downloading one of the more Egyptian looking pics and uploading it into Google image Search. I'm too lazy.

Tell us what, if anything, you find.

Harte
edit on 11/16/2015 by Harte because: I said so.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 12:00 PM
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originally posted by: peacefulpete
I wanted to ask: What is the deal with these linked sites on google.com like this? I'm guessing these sites are basically like a person's blog?


Sort of. Google says "If this is your site, you can link your business page" ...and so folks are claiming that site and putting up whatever they like.


Here is the one linked for BC:

sites.google.com...

I actually like that page on BC because of its photos of the artifacts (and the photos convince me that they're homemade artifacts).


Yup. Fake.



sites.google.com...

What is the deal with THOSE artifact photos? While the BC objects seem homemade, the above link is showing something entirely different. But it's also supposed to be showing Egyptian artifacts in America, like BC.


...scrolling down to "Powell's Cave" (which isn't a natural cave, as you can tell by the chisel marks on the side, the flat sandy floor and the smooth opening... below that we have a fragment of a house altar from Amarna showing Akhenaten and Nefertiti and their three daughters...the piece is well provenanced and is in Ägyptisches Museum/Neues Museum, Staatliche Museen zu Berlin (reference link)

Neither "Joseph" nor "Zoroaster" appears on the block, Amun is NOT as Semitic religion (he is a syncretic war god-sky god from Nubia who becomes blended with the great solar deity, Re just before the New Kingdom), "Setepene" is NOT an Egyptian name (Setepenre is, however, the youngest of Akhenaten's daughters who died when she was about 6 years old.)

Below the maps we have a row of Egyptian souvenirs from a shop, then some real canopic jars, after than a picture of the Buddha. In the next picture, some of the hieroglyphs are VERY suspect... some are real, but some (the ones on the bottom half) are not.

The "bronze statue in Kincaid's tunnel" is a modern interpretation of Anubis and lacks the elements that a real Egyptian staute of Anubis would have.

Way below that are two winged goddesses that are also modern tourist tchachkies.

The mummy from the crypt is also Egyptian and is Greco-Roman period from the Fayum.

Hope this helps.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: peacefulpete
I wanted to ask: What is the deal with these linked sites on google.com like this? I'm guessing these sites are basically like a person's blog?


Sort of. Google says "If this is your site, you can link your business page" ...and so folks are claiming that site and putting up whatever they like.


Here is the one linked for BC:

sites.google.com...

I actually like that page on BC because of its photos of the artifacts (and the photos convince me that they're homemade artifacts).


Yup. Fake.



sites.google.com...

What is the deal with THOSE artifact photos? While the BC objects seem homemade, the above link is showing something entirely different. But it's also supposed to be showing Egyptian artifacts in America, like BC.


...scrolling down to "Powell's Cave" (which isn't a natural cave, as you can tell by the chisel marks on the side, the flat sandy floor and the smooth opening... below that we have a fragment of a house altar from Amarna showing Akhenaten and Nefertiti and their three daughters...the piece is well provenanced and is in Ägyptisches Museum/Neues Museum, Staatliche Museen zu Berlin (reference link)

Neither "Joseph" nor "Zoroaster" appears on the block, Amun is NOT as Semitic religion (he is a syncretic war god-sky god from Nubia who becomes blended with the great solar deity, Re just before the New Kingdom), "Setepene" is NOT an Egyptian name (Setepenre is, however, the youngest of Akhenaten's daughters who died when she was about 6 years old.)

Below the maps we have a row of Egyptian souvenirs from a shop, then some real canopic jars, after than a picture of the Buddha. In the next picture, some of the hieroglyphs are VERY suspect... some are real, but some (the ones on the bottom half) are not.

The "bronze statue in Kincaid's tunnel" is a modern interpretation of Anubis and lacks the elements that a real Egyptian staute of Anubis would have.

Way below that are two winged goddesses that are also modern tourist tchachkies.

The mummy from the crypt is also Egyptian and is Greco-Roman period from the Fayum.

Hope this helps.


Thanks, yeah I had assumed that the photos on that page were just blatantly ripped from real Egyptian sites. How strange that these Google.com sites seem to have no accountability for what they post... And I had never seen Google.com sites before this, so maybe they just get no attention in general?

What's up with the "Gold Artifact for the Egyptian King named Khyan?" It looks like a modern art piece that mixes a Buddha with hieroglyphics.

Also what's up with that cave of mummies in the walls?!

And none of the landscape photos look like they come from the Grand Canyon area lol. Anyone know where they're from? What a mess of a website lol.
edit on 17-11-2015 by peacefulpete because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 05:35 PM
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originally posted by: peacefulpete

Thanks, yeah I had assumed that the photos on that page were just blatantly ripped from real Egyptian sites. How strange that these Google.com sites seem to have no accountability for what they post... And I had never seen Google.com sites before this, so maybe they just get no attention in general?

Exactly. I've encouraged the local audubon societies to claim their spaces on the maps, but that means that someone has to maintain it and deal with it... and unless a business has an active IT department with a lot of geeks, this does not happen.



What's up with the "Gold Artifact for the Egyptian King named Khyan?" It looks like a modern art piece that mixes a Buddha with hieroglyphics.


Photoshop chop job. I suspect it's from a site like WorthAThousandWords, which runs photoshop competitions -OR it's from a 3D site where someone's showing off their skills. You can see a better version of it here, where the artist, Jack Andrews, has signed his name


Also what's up with that cave of mummies in the walls?!


More work by Jack Andrews, and it looks photoshopped. They're not mummies, as you can see from this image - real humans and real mummies just aren't built like that (plus, after thousands of years, they would weaken and fall down.)

This page (scroll down, look for red text) attributes it to 3d work by Andrews


And none of the landscape photos look like they come from the Grand Canyon area lol. Anyone know where they're from? What a mess of a website lol.

They aren't... they're 3d rendering. Someone with more time on their hands than I have and a good bit of experience with Blender (which I don't have... I can sort of do things in Blender)



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