Bernie Sanders' Religion is Collectivism

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I'd say him being spiritual means there's a pretty good chance he believes in God.

People who believe in God will say so without hesitation.

He just throws the word around in figures of speech as if it doesn't mean anything.

Hey wait a minute... I think there's a Jewish rule about that kinda thing... something about vain speech when dealing with the Almighty? I'm sure I don't know the Torah as well as Bernie does, though.

a reply to: NthOther

Individual religious beliefs shouldn't play into any candidates platform. If that's the way voters are going to base their decision on, it's pretty narrow minded and foolish. This is why we continue to get government leaders who don't address the majority of America's problems. A lot of voters decide on candidates based upon only one issue without looking at the total package. We deserve what we get.

a reply to: NthOther

So would him believing in God somehow make his policies better or worse? I doubt it. So what if he doesn't believe in God or at least the Judeo-Christian one? That's better than a president who invaded other countries because God told them to (Bush).

a reply to: NthOther

People who believe in God will say so without hesitation.

Many people keep their religion to themselves and avoid any discussion about it in certain situations. It is ignorant to generalize and say all people whom believe would say so without hesitation.

He just throws the word around in figures of speech as if it doesn't mean anything.

It doesn't. "God forbid" and other phrases such as "god damnit" and "Jesus Christ" have evolved to also become a part of the general language. Plenty of Christians use those terms in their metaphoric tense.

a reply to: introvert

No, no it is not. That's called a usage fee and the investors receive something tangible from that infrastructure. What, aside from less money in my wallet, do I get from paying for somebody else's healthcare coverage or being taxed to fund welfare?

Everybody who buys gasoline pays for roads through the gas taxes. Furthermore, everybody pays the same damn dollar amount and percentage per gallon!!! How is that even remotely akin to a redistributive income tax in which those who take the most from the system pay the least into it? 47%... that's the current magic number. 47% of Americans pay $0.00 and actually TAKE money from the system in progressively larger amounts the further down the ladder they go. The only thing this horsecrap is progressing America towards is the toilet.

I can, however, provide free advice. You want something, America? WORK for it! Do what millions are currently doing and hundreds of millions did before you, get off your ass, take personal responsibility, and EARN you goddamned keep. You refuse to do that, well... much of these issues are self correcting problems in a truly objectivist society. That's cold, hard, and makes me a real SOB, but it's real. I have zero use for enablers like Bernie Sanders. America doesn't need some whiney jackass telling it how hard life is for them and how they deserve to be given all this and that. America needs someone to take it by the throat, and throw her directly towards the wolves with enough spears for every American hand and a real simple instruction "Fight for it!" That's why I support nobody in this election... not one candidate has the audacity to say what's needed and demand all of the federal outlays be examined and cut to the bone. Not one candidate has demonstrated the testicular fortitude to tell America "You know what? Life is hard. Deal with it. Work for what you want and work for what you believe is your worth in life." No, instead we have an egomaniacal jackass on the right working the red yipyips into a frenzy over migrant workers and a sad whiteman version of the dozens, insulting his opponents while the crowd barks like an Arsinio Hall gallery and we have an enabling whiner that thinks the government's hands should be welcomed in every Americans' pockets "for the good of the people" (my ass) while his little blue yipyips work themselves into a lather over the prospect of the elimination of all tangible merits in society. From where I stand, both options are as palatable as a kick to the groin followed by a slap to the face.

a reply to: introvert

Exactly, I'm not religious and I use those expressions. Damn near everyone does. He didn't "mention God" he used common everyday vernacular to which the word God is a part.

a reply to: introvert

Ted Cruz is a nutbag that would push his religion on to others through his policies if given the chance. I have no problem with what he believes personally, but if he wants to drag that in to government, we have a problem

seems hypocritical since you just advocated that religion shouldnt matter

Haven't heard anyone criticize him for that, but if they have it's just as wrong.

Weird, previous sentence above just criticized someone for their religion, really?

Most Christians keep their religion to themselves. The GOP try to force it down your throat and invoke the name of god to give their policies and candidacies some legitimacy to those that think religion in politics matter.

You shouldnt have to keep anything to yourself, freedom of speech, I think you misunderstand "separation of church and state and, freedom to practice"

The issue is you believe you have a freedom FROM religion, which is wrong, you have freedom OF religion........

Thats like saying you have a right to NOT be offended, sorry thats not the case and life doesnt work that way

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
I am sorry if you didint like is answers, but no where does he say that communism is is god.

"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."

–Thomas B. Reed

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Who cares whether he believes in God? I doubt any of his supporters, atheist or theist, give a damn about whether he believes in God or not. They haven't supported him up to this point based on his belief or lack thereof, so why would they abandon support based on the same thing? His policies are what have people behind him, not his religion.

He's running for president, not Pope.

I seriously doubt any of his supporters believe in God.

He really shouldn't hide from it, because the people who will
vote for him don't believe in God either.
So it's really a non-issue for Sanders.

Most Democrats I've come across on ATS want to see all
religion wiped clean from the face of the earth.
So to admit he is an atheist would actually be appealing
to the mainstream Democrat, at least those on ATS.
He'd likely gain a lot of support from Hollywood,
the mainstream media and the vast majority of Democrats
if he admitted he is an atheist. Most of them absolutely
hate all religion.

I don't want godless people in charge

I don't want fundamentalists in charge- they're insane. Look what they've done in places like the Middle East, Africa, the south. Religious people think they can get away with anything because they're "fighting for god" and they don't care about destroying society or the planet because they think God's coming back any day now.

least of all people who have no connection to something greater than themselves

We have a connection to our society and the human race. That's a lot better than a connection to a mythical god who doesn't seem to care about anyone's lives except for a few of their extreme followers.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

So would him believing in God somehow make his policies better or worse?

Not necessarily. Like I said, I prefer that no one be "in charge" (politically I'm so far off the left-right scale I'm in the trash bin of anarchism).

But it would make me feel a bit better about his motivation. A little humility goes a long way with me. I see none in this man.

originally posted by: CB328

I don't want fundamentalists in charge-

Nor do I. Nor did I say I did.

It's not an either-or thing, you know. You don't have to be either a fundie whackjob or a rabid atheist.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Everybody who buys gasoline pays for roads through the gas taxes. Furthermore, everybody pays the same damn dollar amount and percentage per gallon!!! How is that even remotely akin to a redistributive income tax in which those who take the most from the system pay the least into it?

That is incorrect. There are taxes paid by everyone in certain areas that helps to pay for the expenses of corporations and business'. Arizona's State Assurance fund was created to take tax money generated at the pump to help business' fix/remove leaking underground gas tank systems. All in the name of the environment, of course. The collective wealth of the people used to help big business in the end.

Also, state and federal highway programs have not been able to do what was needed for our infrastructure solely from the revenue generated by gas taxes. They have had to use our tax money from other areas to fill the gap. Source So that argument is invalid.

I can, however, provide free advice.

All due respect, but you can keep your advice. That is exactly how things have been done in this country for far too long and it has led us to the point that working hard doesn't even feed the kids. We work hard for the corporations, they get the wealth and the government helps keep wages low by giving them tax-exempt contracts and by paying people welfare so they don't rebel against the corporation.

originally posted by: CB328
I don't want fundamentalists in charge- they're insane. Look what they've done in places like the Middle East, Africa, the south.

Most of the Middle East and African countries embroiled in the worst wars are secular. Saddam Hussein: Not a fundamentalist by any means. Ghadaffi: Extremely secular. Assad: Secular. Israel: largely secular leadership. Saleh: very secular. King Abdullah of Jordan: Secular. Hosni Mubarack: Secular. Idi Amin: Secular. Charles Taylor: Secular. Mobutu: Secular. Bokassa: mostly secular (indecisive may be a better term, as he switched several times.) Robert Mugabe: claimed Catholic, but certainly didn't behave like one.

The more religious leaders in that region get a lot of press, but usually just because they make a lot of noise, not because they actually have done anything.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

seems hypocritical since you just advocated that religion shouldnt matter

It shouldn't. When it become part of their political platform it becomes an issue.

Weird, previous sentence above just criticized someone for their religion, really?

The topic was Carson being criticized for being a 7th day adventist. I have not seen that. It may very well be true, but I have not experienced that.

The issue is you believe you have a freedom FROM religion, which is wrong, you have freedom OF religion........

Not so. I encounter religion all the time. No problem. What I was referring to was the injection of religion in to political ideology. Very dangerous. It's not about being offended, it's about trying to push believe in to policy.

There is a very distinct difference.

If fundamentalist religious leaders are insane, then why did we make a nuke deal with one in Iran?

a reply to: introvert

We're in a federal discussion here, not state. I can't help what various states misappropriate their funds for aside from Alaska.
That said, the $0.18 a gallon federal gas tax has been misappropriated, too. Much of it has funded crap like bike and pedestrian facilities, mass transit, and bus subsidies... all things which should NOT be funded by gasoline taxes.

I realize you're rejecting the advice... but I'll continue to share it in the hopes that *some* will take it and make a difference with it. I'd argue that the level of effort Americans put into work has decreased a great deal over the past decade and, to be blunt, statistics support that argument 100%. Look at the percentage of Americans not in the workforce lately?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

We're in a federal discussion here, not state. I can't help what various states misappropriate their funds for aside from Alaska.

The real meat of that was not state or federal. It was to show that your claim that everyone pays equally towards the programs I listed is false. Everyone that buys gas or uses certain transportation options help pay gas taxes, but other taxes revenue is used to pay for roads, etc that not everyone pays in to. That would include the poor and the super wealthy corporations.

I'd argue that the level of effort Americans put into work has decreased a great deal over the past decade and, to be blunt, statistics support that argument 100%. Look at the percentage of Americans not in the workforce lately?

There is a lot more context to those statistics that must be looked at before you come to such a rash conclusion. How many of those dropping out of the workforce are baby-boomers (retirees)? How many are starting their own business and are off of the radar for the moment? There are many things to consider and to say that the American people do not work hard because of those lapses in statistical information is disingenuous.

a reply to: NthOther

I'd actually rather not know the religion of any candidate. It's none of my business. I don't see how socialism can be a religion, it's not even a kind of religion.

a reply to: grandmakdw

And where is your proof of this? Or is it just a baseless assumption? I believe in God and if I were to vote Bernie would be who I'd vote for. It sounds to me like you're just way over generalizing his base of supporters.

As far as Democrats being atheist, that's totally untrue. The Christian hero Kim Davis is a Democrat and so are so many others. Stop painting with such a broad brush.