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Atheists object to Christmas toy drive on Air Force base – and win

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posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:21 PM
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A few good videos about the man behind the MRFF, Mikey Weinstein...

I 100% agree with what Dr. Brown says in the first interview below (@ 9:40 min.):

The second video is awesome BTW as well...


The more shrill your rhetoric the harder it is to take you seriously. The more shrill your rhetoric the more you seem like a fanatic whose out to spill blood. ~ Dr. Michael Brown

This week President Obama's Pentagon reportedly confirmed consulting the anti-Christian activist Mikey Weinstein before officially threatening to court-martial soldiers who talk about Jesus Christ.

Who is Mikey Weinstein, and why is he trusted to advise the Pentagon? Read Mikey's own litany of vulgar, hateful words against millions of evangelical Christians and Jews who serve in the U.S. military:

"Mikey Weinstein has declared war on millions of Christians, saying on tape "We are at war with a sub-set of evangelical Christianity...how many? Roughly 12.6% of the American public or 38 million people."

"Mikey Weinstein has reportedly sued Christians, or the Military to silence Christians 5 times, and failed in all 5 lawsuits, with 0 surviving to trial. Despite his failure he feigns expertise on the Constitution, threatening to sue again."

Who is Mikey Weinstein? Read His Own Vulgar Words Hating Christians and Jews in the U.S. Military



edit on 23-10-2015 by Murgatroid because: felt like it...




posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:22 PM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

DeathSlayer: Well said!



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:23 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Metallicus

It's the government preaching to the children. It really doesn't bother you?


As one of your own side already pointed out, this is not a government charity. The member in question only sent out an email letting others know of a volunteer opportunity along with a flyer attachment that fully explained what was going on and what the charity was about. There was no requirement for anyone to take part and none of the shoeboxes were going to contain a "courtesy of the US government" message inside them.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:24 PM
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I really, really don't understand why people can't understand this.

The government cannot endorse or sanction an activity that is connected to a specific religious organization.

Using DoD/government property to send an email about a charity drive run by a Christian organization breaks long standing ethics rules.

This isn't a "war on Christianity". I really wish people wouldn't make themselves out to be victims and martyrs here. The same thing would have happened if this was a toy drive run by a Jewish synagogue or a mosque.

Anyone worth their .2 that works for the military or government knows these ethics rules and has been told them a million times.

Just because you believe your religion is the one "true" religion doesn't excuse you from the rules everyone else is expected to abide by.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:25 PM
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If someone at the DMV forwarded a political meme, that would also be an ethics violation and they could get in trouble over it.

If you are a conservative, do you want people at the DMV or at the child support office using their government computers to send Bernie Sanders rally information to other co-workers?

This is the same thing, and the reason none of this is allowed period.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

What happens when it's the religious organization that needs disaster aid? Can the government help them then? Or does that mean that all government aid must carefully leave all churches, mosques, temples and other religiously based orgs alone when they go in to save people after any disaster?

After all, wouldn't that be a government endorsement?

We could take this government endorsement thing to ridiculous levels. Why does the government send any aid to any religious individuals at all? Shouldn't we make people renounce their religion if they want any SNAP, Section 8 or other benefits? After all, if we don't, we have taxpayers subsidizing religion don't we?

Oh, yes, and let's not forget ... we should fire every single religious person who currently works for the government in any capacity, and no one of any stated religious affiliation ought to ever hold office again ...


edit on 23-10-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:30 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
If someone at the DMV forwarded a political meme, that would also be an ethics violation and they could get in trouble over it.

If you are a conservative, do you want people at the DMV or at the child support office using their government computers to send Bernie Sanders rally information to other co-workers?

This is the same thing, and the reason none of this is allowed period.


Lois Lerner.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: EternalSolace

The email also had this in it, along with the flyer though.





Saturday, October 24, 2015
Operation Christmas Child (OCC)
Community-wide Shoebox Packing Party
Calvary Community Center (CCA) 8 am
2 pm
(1532 E. Lebanon Road, Dover, DE)

Our goal is to fill 5,000+ shoe boxes to be sent around the world as a way
to show children in desperate situations that God loves and values them.
Many of these children have never received a gift before. Many have never
heard of Gods incredible free Gift of Salvation through His Son. But a
simple gift, a shoebox packed and prayed for by you could give a child hope
and eternal security. Come, partner with us and CCA, be a
missionary filling shoebox gifts and praying over them with us.

Everyone is welcome!
There is nothing to bring and no charge to participate.
Bring your family, friends and neighbor

www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org... (page 6)


and then there was the flyer included which basically said the same thing...

The secretary is also the one who signed the second part of the email only this time she signs it as:




René B. Valladares
Media Volunteer
Central DelMar Operation Christmas Child (OCC)


She probably could have gotten away with including the link that she also included in the email:

www.samaritanspurse.org...

along with the pickup information, but then she wouldn't be including so much christian rhetoric in the email, would she?



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: swimmer15

There is a fine line of what leadership can promote with in their chain of command is all I'm saying. I too have a little over 28 years in so I do know what you are talking about.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

This is in response to him:


originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Metallicus

Even if those gifts came with the preaching of Muhammad? Courtesy of your government?


Why would it matter or bother me if they did?

It doesn't.


Apparently it doesn't bother him.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:34 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

I wore the uniform, before morals were outlawed. Don't BS us older folks. Even the President uses people in unform, to stand behind him, to push his "non-belief" ideas and garbage on us. You can't argue against right, belief and faith. Which is what made this country. With your argument. The military needs to disband thier Chaplain Corps. ... America has come to a head. Go left or right? You're spewing BS. We've been left so long. We don't even understand right.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:34 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Metallicus

So, you're against the Constitution?

It's fine for the government to ignore religious freedom (and freedom from religion) if it feels good to you?



Nope.



Religious freedom means freedom from religion as well.


I disagree that freedom OF religion equates to freedom FROM religion.



So if I choose to worship Satan at an alter in my back yard, and Christians burn down my house and kill my family, that would be ok with you?


And that has what to with "of" v "from?"


Because those that agree with "OF", don't seem to think that some of us don't want to listen to their BS, however anytime this topic is brought up, those of us that believe in "FROM" are hammered by the douche weasels on the "OF" side.


Gotcha, you don't want to listen to us? Well, we don't want to listen to you, either.

But the magical thing about email is that it has this button ... it's called "delete."


While I would whole heartedly agree with you about the delete button, this lady violated the contracts that she signed when she became employed by the US government.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:35 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

To clear up any confusion as to why people can't understand it:

They don't want to.

That's it, pure and simple. That's why we have such gems as "they don't care about the kids!" being spewed. That's why nobody answered the question about what the reaction would be if this was sent by a Muslim, espousing Islamic ideas. That's why the focus is being pushed on MRFF instead of the basic concept of an email policy violation.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

So Muslim charities can't do good things?



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:38 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
But let's get back to you ... do you think it's okay for the government to enforce a religion?

If so, how can you say you're not opposed to the Constitution?


What do you mean by enforce?



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:39 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

did the catalog that you ordered the candles from speak about "God’s incredible free Gift of Salvation through His Son"'? Were you encouraged to pray while ordering your candles?? Did the person handing you the catalog??

And, by the way, I know a few employers that wouldn't allow you to sell your kid's fundraisers on their property.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:41 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Shamrock6

So Muslim charities can't do good things?



Lol don't even try and spin that one back on me, Ket. One, I'm not the one who asked the question. I simply noticed none of the folks defending this woman answered it. Two, your arms aren't long enough to make that reach.

Good try



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:41 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: MystikMushroom

What happens when it's the religious organization that needs disaster aid? Can the government help them then? Or does that mean that all government aid must carefully leave all churches, mosques, temples and other religiously based orgs alone when they go in to save people after any disaster?

After all, wouldn't that be a government endorsement?

We could take this government endorsement thing to ridiculous levels. Why does the government send any aid to any religious individuals at all? Shouldn't we make people renounce their religion if they want any SNAP, Section 8 or other benefits? After all, if we don't, we have taxpayers subsidizing religion don't we?

Oh, yes, and let's not forget ... we should fire every single religious person who currently works for the government in any capacity, and no one of any stated religious affiliation ought to ever hold office again ...



According to the ethic standards when I was active duty, nothing political or religious was allowed to be sent from your .gov, .dod email address. What you do personally falls under a different set of rules. I am not sure why this is so hard for some to understand MysticMushroom has explained it far more eloquently than I have, but you cannot send anything religious or political from your government email address.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:43 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar

That's fine if the employer doesn't, but I was a teacher (a government job). There were no rules against laying out our kids' fundraisers in the lounge for anyone who might want to buy.

So, was that endorsement of religion if your kids went to religious school, After all, not only was it happening on a government place of employment, but the money paying for it was tax dollars - double violation of the separation clause according to many here.



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 07:43 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
If someone at the DMV forwarded a political meme, that would also be an ethics violation and they could get in trouble over it.

If you are a conservative, do you want people at the DMV or at the child support office using their government computers to send Bernie Sanders rally information to other co-workers?

This is the same thing, and the reason none of this is allowed period.


It happens.

I still think that as long as non-Christian kids aren't turned way from receiving the toys, then no rights are being trampled.




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