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originally posted by: Xcathdra
originally posted by: crazyewok
The USA cocked up badly in Syria = Fact
Russia blocked all UN resolutions dealing with Syria and Assad so it would be Russia who cocked it up and not the US. Secondly the US is not the only country sending weapons. Something you and others really need to learn as you apparently seem to think the US is the only country on this planet.
originally posted by: Xcathdra
Illegal invasions - Ukraine.
originally posted by: Tardacus
He is right of course,a terrorist is a terrorist we either accept them all or condem them all.This is the kind of stuff the U.S. president should be saying.
originally posted by: Pluginn
a reply to: Xcathdra
Nope, when taking Crimea people didn't die, they voted for getting back.
If you mean the war in Ukraine sure people died there but Russia didn't invade that country with tanks.
Sure there where probably some Russian soldiers but no real proof they where send by Russia.
People from Europe are fighting in Syria so you even could say Europe invaded Syria LOL.
VETO ONE - October 4, 2011 Link
Russia and China blocked a European-drafted U.N. Security Council resolution condemning Syria and hinting it could face sanctions if its bloody crackdown on protesters continues. The draft resolution received nine votes in favor and four abstentions from Brazil, India, Lebanon and South Africa.
VETO TWO - February 4, 2012 - Link
Russia and China vetoed a Western- and Arab-driven draft resolution endorsing an Arab League plan for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to hand power to a deputy to make way for a transition towards democracy. The remaining 13 members of the council voted in favor of the draft resolution.
Russia complained that the draft resolution was an improper and biased attempt at "regime change" in Syria.
VETO THREE - July 19, 2012 - Link
Russia and China vetoed a Western-backed resolution that threatened Syrian authorities with sanctions if they did not halt the violence. The resolution - to extend for 45 days a U.N. mission in Syria observing a failed ceasefire - received 11 votes in favor, while South Africa and Pakistan abstained.
ADOPTED ONE - April 14, 2012 - Link
The U.N. Security Council unanimously agreed to deploy an advance team of up to 30 unarmed observers to monitor a brief, fragile ceasefire.
Before agreeing to support what was originally a U.S.-drafted text, Russia had demanded the U.S. and European delegations dilute it so that it would not "demand" that Syria comply with the resolution. The approved resolution uses softer language so that it "calls upon" Syria to implement it.
ADOPTED TWO - April 21, 2012 - Link
The U.N. Security Council unanimously adopted a resolution that authorized an initial deployment of up to 300 unarmed military observers to Syria for three months.
The Russia-European drafted resolution said that deployment of the U.N. observer mission would be "subject to assessment by the Secretary-General (Ban Ki-moon) of relevant developments on the ground, including the cessation of violence."
It also noted that the cessation of violence by the government and opposition is "clearly incomplete" and warned that the Security Council could consider "further steps" in the event of non-compliance with its terms.
ADOPTED THREE - July 20, 2012 - Link
The U.N. Security Council voted unanimously to extend the monitoring mission in Syria for a final 30 days.
ADOPTED FOUR - September 28, 2013 - Link
The U.N. Security Council unanimously adopted a resolution that demanded the eradication of Syria's chemical weapons but did not threaten automatic punitive action against Assad's government if it does not comply.
The vote by the Security Council capped weeks of intense diplomacy between Russia and the United States. It was based on a deal between the two countries reached in Geneva earlier in September following an August 21 sarin nerve gas attack on a Damascus suburb that killed hundreds.
The resolution does not authorize automatic punitive action in the form of military strikes or sanctions if Syria does not comply. At Russia's insistence, the resolution makes clear a second council decision would be needed for that. Russia has made clear, however, it would not support the use of force against Assad's government, a close ally.
originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: InnerPeace2012
No matter what anyone's opinions are. Putin is what a real leader looks and speaks like.
We haven't had anything but puppets spewing propaganda since Kenedy.
We need a real president. One who speaks the truth and does what he/she says they are going to do. I am tired of blatant liars running this country.
For the first time in this report we found that the widespread detention of civilians in Al-Raqqah and their systematic torture amount to crimes against humanity. said Pinheiro. “Among the violations are murder, summary executions, torture, hostage taking, rape and sexual violence, recruiting and using children in hostilities and other violations and other crimes.
originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok
I still think the US should go in and remove Assad. I personally think countries should become militarily involved when only humanitarian issues exist and the government decides to ignore them.
As for illegal the doctrine the UN adopted in 2005 says otherwise, especially when a government is killing its own citizens and refuses to stop.
originally posted by: crazyewok
Because I think putting Syria back under central control even if under Assad is the best of a lot of bad options at this point.
originally posted by: crazyewok
Seeing as the terrorists or "rebels" as you call them are a fractured, divided and badly organised group, there is no point removeing assad to hand the country over to them as you will just have them war.
originally posted by: crazyewok
The saying better the devil you know comes to mind.
originally posted by: crazyewok
And its not our job in the west to export "freedom " and "democracy " to syria, especially not when we are propping us tyrannys like Saudi Arabia. Our job should be just to stabilise syria and stop the war spreading over international borders. Handing the government over to a bunch of fracturd divided terrorists is the last thing in my opinion that will accomplish that!
originally posted by: crazyewok
So I am not critizeing Russia role in Syria as I dont feel I have much to critize in this case. In this ONE case Russia aims line up with mine.
originally posted by: crazyewok
Now as for Russia and China other actions elsewere in the world I cant say the same thing. I could critize them all day. But thats not for this thread as its for another topic.
Hell I have denounced Russias actions in Ukraine enough in the Ukraine threads. And though I was and still am 100% against military intervention in Ukraine , I fully support the sanctions levelled on Russia, infact I have said time and time again (though you will forget again I will suspect as it does not fit your black/white narrative ) that the sanctions did not go far enough!
originally posted by: crazyewok
And you remove assad then what?
The Syrian people don't seem to agree. Why not remove Assad and occupy the country and let the Syrian people decide their own fate? When I say remove I am speaking of all countries, the US and Russia. There is no reason they cant work together to protect civilians.