The Jobs Apocalypse - what will YOU do with all that time?

a reply to: boohoo

Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure looks like you've found every excuse to NOT pursue a career.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: boohoo

Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure looks like you've found every excuse to NOT pursue a career.

Due to having direct exposure to the "Owners of Capital" class and hearing their perspective on how the world works (as bigfatfurrytexan pointed out, billionaires not millionaires). I see what is happening to people "beneath my station" from a different perspective and as a result I take great offense to what will be in store for these lower classes in the future, whom will be unable to afford retraining, combined with the overall effects of age discrimination.

So with that said what part of of the following statement, did you not understand.

"I attended high school and college with their children. My academic pedigree "allows me" to meet the qualifications that the "owners of capital" desire and REQUIRE for upward moving, management types, that were not necessarily "born into" the "Owners of Capital" class"

It should be fairly clear that I am employed and have a career, IF, you take some time to re-read a few of my older ATS posts, where I address what I do for a living.

a reply to: boohoo

Short answer? Social Darwinism in action. Either adapt or die.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: boohoo

Short answer? Social Darwinism in action. Either adapt or die.

"Social Darwinism" is not real.

If those at the top of the food chain, operating successfully under the man-made rules of "Social Darwinism", PUSH TOO HARD, they may find themselves EVENTUALLY living under the rules of real "Darwinian Evolution", where the "physically-fittest" can simply drag them out of their offices and/or homes and implement "mob rule" (ala the French Revolution).

Did you read my earlier post that mentioned the "Peasants Revolt"?

It seems not.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I find this funny because it's common knowledge that those who work hardest and stress the most die younger.

originally posted by: corvuscorrax
a reply to: DBCowboy

I find this funny because it's common knowledge that those who work hardest and stress the most die younger.

If that were the case, then there should be lots of jobs because us old farts keep dying.

originally posted by: corvuscorrax
a reply to: DBCowboy
I find this funny because it's common knowledge that those who work hardest and stress the most die younger.

I used to work with a guy like DBCowboy in an office job, early in my career. He was basically the "office gopher", BUT before that, he was a well paid, skilled tradesman (carpenter). Guess what, his hands and body eventually couldn't handle the work and he had to take whatever jobs he could get, which in his case was "office gopher", not "job site foreman". His home was paid off, but on-going medical bills prevented him from being able to invest in retraining without taking on major debt. He was near SSI retirement age and had to decide how to get by, doing either crappy work in an office or borrowing big bucks to re-train (there wasn't enough spare money to cover his medical expenses AND pay for retraining up front). Since he could not afford to pay for training cash and the retraining would have had questionable results, he decided to just work for a pittance and stay out of education debt, until SSI and medicare/Medicaid kicked in.

He used to say, "I thought I could just keep working when I got old because I always did a good job and worked hard, but I didn't consider the situation I am in now, despite having saved money and paid off my mortgage".

All the people posting here about "why I am wrong" will be in the same boat as the guy I worked with. They typically don't see or understand what I am saying, until the moment it arrives, right in front of their faces.

a reply to: boohoo

I'm impressed that you think you know so much yet actually are wrong on so many levels. To each his own, I suppose. When I'm broke and on the street, I'll drop you a line and say you were right. Just to make you feel better.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: boohoo

I'm impressed that you think you know so much yet actually are wrong on so many levels. To each his own, I suppose. When I'm broke and on the street, I'll drop you a line and say you were right. Just to make you feel better.

As was illustrated in my story, you don't have to be completely broke to run out of GOOD options, due to having believed in false realities about the world of work and how it relates to the wishes of the "Owners of Capital" (whether it be contract work, self-employed, entrepreneur, investor, owner, etc). This isn't the America that my grandmother grew up and aged in, nor is it the America that my parents grew up and lived in, up to middle age. This country has slipped to second world status and just about everyone living in it is in total denial about the status change.

Americans cling to a culture filled with mythical belief systems that are littered with pathetic ironies.

BTW, I'd like to hear actual rebuttals to some of the points I posted, that you disagree with. Simply saying "wrong on so many levels" is nothing more than "shill talk".

originally posted by: boohoo
BTW, I'd like to hear actual rebuttals to some of the points I posted, that you disagree with. Simply saying "wrong on so many levels" is nothing more than "shill talk".

Hello boohoo, I really appreciated reading your perspective on the future of employment. You were very thorough in explaining the direction we are headed in, and I have great respect that you are concerned on behalf of "average Joe & Jane" citizen.

It all makes perfectly logical sense, except of course for one small (but very important) detail:

If, as you say, none but a very elite few will be able to join the new version of the working class - WHO are going to be the consumers? Where will the "Owners of Capital" amass their vast profits from? Especially as we see today, that these profits MUST grow year over year in order to continue the whole charade. Robots certainly cannot pay.

They could of course, enjoy much smaller profits, with the sole consumers being among their own class - but I cannot for the life of me recall when they have ever settled for a meagre amount of profits. In fact, this idea seems to be the antithesis of their understood modus operandi.

I look forward to your take on this aspect.

originally posted by: MoonBlossom
Hello boohoo, I really appreciated reading your perspective on the future of employment. You were very thorough in explaining the direction we are headed in, and I have great respect that you are concerned on behalf of "average Joe & Jane" citizen.

It all makes perfectly logical sense, except of course for one small (but very important) detail:

If, as you say, none but a very elite few will be able to join the new version of the working class - WHO are going to be the consumers? Where will the "Owners of Capital" amass their vast profits from? Especially as we see today, that these profits MUST grow year over year in order to continue the whole charade. Robots certainly cannot pay.

They could of course, enjoy much smaller profits, with the sole consumers being among their own class - but I cannot for the life of me recall when they have ever settled for a meagre amount of profits. In fact, this idea seems to be the antithesis of their understood modus operandi.

I have answered this before on ATS, the "Owners of Capital" are betting on the Singularity, Mind-clones and AI to provide their creature comforts. We are approaching an era where the "Owners of Capital" will not need laborers of any kind to live a life of comfort. But, our civilization is not quite there yet, technology-wise, so the "Owners of capital" need to "keep people calm and unsuspecting" until the trigger can be pulled decisively without consequence.

So, what are the possible scenarios that regular folks will experience during this "interim period", while the technology needed to create the Singularity, Mind-clones and AI, is maturing?

The "Owners of Capital" will simply extract the little remaining labor wages from the lower classes, by decree, through the implementation of a cashless system. Consumers will not have choices in the future because purchases will be mandatory in some way. Policies structured like Obamacare should have taught us ALL how these kinds of scenarios will play out. Obamacare is merely the test run of how to implement future legislated purchases on a large scale. "Click-Wrap Agreements" coupled with a "cashless society" will make that transition easier for the "Owners of Capital" to force on the general populace.

What do I mean exactly?

Many forget that we now live in what "could" be considered a fascist country, with oligopolies running it behind the scenes. What usually results, is a situation where the "owners of capital", can and will "legislate" mandatory purchases in the future, if revenue does not match their expectations or projections (for the good of the nation of course, i.e., Too-Big-to-Fail).

So for example, if someone chooses not to buy unneeded goods or services, they will simply pay a "penalty" at tax time or some scheme involving a "negative interest rate". The "owners of capital" have, at this point, run out of consumer goods that they can "strongly coerce" people to buy, in order to go to work, such as, gasoline, internet connection, car insurance, bus/subway fare, cell phones, suits/uniforms, soap, deodorant, razors, etc. We are approaching a day when they will simply make it law that you have to buy goods, in certain quantities before tax season (just like the current Healthcare coupled Flexible Spending Account (FSA), except one day we will have an FSA for ALL goods and services, and you can bet those accounts will be "use-it or lose-it"). Also, since you won't be able to own things like the new "digital cars" that are currently being developed, nor will you own the current "digital media" being rented on Hulu, Netflix, etc., means that likely, in the future, you could be billed for "damage to the vehicle or product" from the "real owners of that vehicle or product" at any time.

Regular People will not be allowed to be frugal in the future because the "owners of capital" will take close to the same amount back, when a person tries to save money by reducing purchases, in the form of "tax penalties" or other method (cashless, digital currency, negative interest rate, instant credit to cover shortfalls and deductions from bank accounts whenever the "owners of capital" see fit). A cashless society, dominated by "click-wrap agreements" is the easiest way to structure "forced purchases" into the larger economy. Another scenario that regular people will face in the future, is when someone chooses "not to buy" and then doesn't have the proper "proof of purchase" coupon, etc, to prove they bought these items, in the required quantities, when tax fillings come due. I can guarantee that the IRS or some other agency will have some way to calculate the amount "you should have purchased" (sounds a little like a college FASFA aid forms in reverse doesn't it?). People will also have to pay a monthly fee to keep their digital money in the bank and there won't be any alternative way to store it, without paying the monthly fee. It is an instant, predictable, revenue generator for public companies, that the stock market will then feed off.

Bartering used as a circumvention method has been suggested before, but the IRS already has a plan and system in place to deal with it somewhat. They will tax bartering by an estimate, the same way they do for restaurant servers receiving tips. There will likely be HUGE penalties for barter and I will bet EVERYONE will automatically be assumed to have "bartered" some amount over the year at tax time (perhaps an estimated $500 in barter per year, that is taxed whether the person in question did any actual bartering or not). The most likely outcome though, is that one day, bartering will simply be deemed an illegal activity, I don't recall it being a named constitutional right anywhere.

Look at solar roof panels, as another example, many local governments are taxing people for installing them because they reduce dependence on local utilities, which in turn, drives down privatized revenue being collected by the contract companies hired running the utilities.

Now, having described the "interim solution" that the "Owners of Capital" will use to extract the little remaining wages of the labor classes, in the next post I will describe what will happen when the Singularity, Mind-Clone and AI tech start to become viable commercial enterprises and products...

Millennial's and the generation after them falsely believe tech will save and unite them, when in reality it was designed by "corporate committee" to do just the opposite. The only way to prevent that shift, is for Millennial's to immediately STOP buying such tech, opposing the development of said tech and discouraging others from buying and using it, even if it means using physical force. But, they will NEVER do this because they have drank the cool-aid and are to a certain extent addicted to technology. Think about it, I'm seeing commercials for ordering pizza on a smartphone app, but whats the point, really? To appease Millennial's? Perhaps. But, did this cohort take the time to think about whether it is really more convenient to type an order in on an app, as opposed to calling the order in on a phone? No they didn't AND by using the smartphone app to place a FOOD ORDER instead of a phone, the pizza seller can then become a data broker making money selling customer info.

Then there is the issue of "data simulations" being done on citizens by corporations and government for revenue projections. I can guarantee that some people will not be able to be"simulated", due to high levels of inaccuracy in the data that is collected on them. Some simple examples would be homeless people, old people that don't use credit or the internet, and low wage earners functioning on cash, whom use cell phones on a relatives account that their name is not on (I have a brother-in that does all of the above and couch surfs, there's no way a simulation would know anything about him because he has virtually no digital footprint).

Th rub is when these "simulations" becomes a real part of business revenue projections, directly influencing tax revenue projections and collection methods. These people that "cannot be simulated" will be labeled criminals and put on some kind of supervised probation and forced to adapt habits that can be tracked digitally. I can GUARANTEE this will happen. As I stated above, Millennial's are likely the easiest to simulate because they have already given away the keys to the castle and have no intention of taking those keys back.

Young people are forgetting that this tech can be used VERY effectively to further their indentured servitude.

How is that possible, you may ask?

Remember when cell phones were actually fun?

I do, the phone was a huge and needed to be carried in a bag, BUT my boss NEVER called me on it, after typical work hours and certainly never called to ask me to do more work while I was at home. Compare that to today, when a cell phone in your pocket can spontaneously generate more work to be done outside of the office, simply because someone higher up than you had a random thought.

Now how does this scenario play into life-extension tech, mind-clones, AI and the Singularity?

Right now most Americans are expected to and are coerced by employment requirements to buy/finance a car, buy/finance education, buy/finance healthcare, buy/finance insurance and eventually buy/finance a home of some kind.

What do you think the "Owners of Capital" will do when life-extension tech becomes a commercial product?

They will simply coerce people to buy it, even if the recipient doesn't want to have the procedure done and the methods used to coerce the general populace in the United States, will not require any additional lobbying or law changes on the behalf of the "Owners of Capital".

Imagine a world where life-extension tech is sold and financed to regular people, over long repayment periods, to people that don't have the ability to pay for it, in cash, up front, similar to a cars, higher education or home mortgages.

Want to opt-out? Sure you have the "choice" to do anything you want. We are a "free country" after all.

Imagine the unfolding of the following fictional scenarios, resulting from a person "choosing" to NOT have the life-extension procedure:

Do you want health insurance? Sorry, but we don't insure people whom have not had the life-extension procedure. However, there is another provider that we can refer you to that will, but that company has both a high deductible and high premium, so as to reduce the coverage risk of your shorter life span, to the provider.

Want to get a job? Sorry, but we don't hire people whom have not had the life-extension procedure, they cost more to insure and are uninsurable in some cases. We don't consider this discrimination, however, because its no different than requiring you to have a car or a driver license for employment with our firm. Especially with the Supreme Court declaring that those refusing the life-extension procedure are not considered disabled, nor are a protected class.

Do you need a credit card or a business loan? Sorry, but we have to charge you a higher interest rate because our actuaries have found that people whom have not had the life-extension procedure are a higher risk, have higher unemployment rates and have lower profit margins, due to a shorter life expectancy.

Do you need a bank account or cell/internet/communication service plan? Sorry, but we don't open accounts to people whom have not had the life-extension procedure, they cost significantly more to service, due to not being plugged directly into the system.

Note this strategy will not be limited to mandatory " life-extension tech". Just replace the word "life-extension procedure", in my above example, with the word "self-driving car", "robot home worker", "networked appliances" or "cyborg implant" and the result is the same for the regular person.

Also don't forget the possibility that regular folks could become the "body farm" for rich people needing "head transplants", with our filed away DNA profiles telling them EXACTLY whom will be the "best match" at any given time. This DNA will also tell the "Owners of capital" whom will be the most healthy donors, with the least inherited health problems. Also don't think the courts will be providing any "due process" if "head transplants" becomes a real thing.

For example, lets say that someone like Mark Zuckerberg needs a head transplant in 2055, when this tech has fully matured, with corporations and government having the DNA of every citizen on file and YOU happen to be the best DNA match for Mark's head. Do you believe they will "ask your permission" to donate your body, for HIS need?

Of course they won't, they will jail you on trumped up charges and will have laws in the future that will eliminate your right to deny such uses of your body. You will be turned into a ward of the state, at their discretion, to use as they please. Mark Zuckerberg's life value to the state and corporate America is worth FAR, FAR, more than any of us.

"Private Cities" owned by corporations, exempt for labor and civil laws, will also be created in this phase. This will be done to lower human labor costs before the Singularity, Mind-clone and AI tech fully take over, rendering regular people to indenture servant status. Want to get a job in a "Private City"? Sorry, but we don't hire people whom have not had the life-extension procedure and/or do not have an AI car or home worker. In a "Private City" the "Owners of Capital" can make ANY RULES THEY WANT, without "due process" or pesky "labor laws" getting in the way.

In the next post I will describe what will happen when the Singularity, Mind-Clone and AI tech fully matures and integrates into our society...

The "Owners of Capital" won't really need regular people for labor and will have no desire to pay for their work/labor. So, I ask if advanced AI tech is doing most of the labor, whats left for regular people to do?

The REAL answer is nothing, maybe, "body farm" for the rich...

First, AI is going to make regular people jobless
Second, it is going to steal what few liberties and freedoms we have left
Third, it will make human life valueless to the true "Owners of Capital"

When my parents were in school in the 1950's and 60's they were told: no one would have to work in the future, that everything would be done by robots and they would, in turn, have increased free time used for creating, making art, learning and helping others...

Robotics, self driving cars, digital currency, the Singularity, Cell Regeneration and Artificial Intelligence are essentially the same lie, told to our parents, rehashed for a 21st century audience. I think its funny when regular people get excited about future tech like the Singularity, AI, Robotics, Self-Driving Cars, etc. Do people really think when these thing finally become real, functioning, working designs, applicable to industry, that we, the "peons", will somehow ALL get a Data from Start Trek or a C-3PO from Star Wars, to help us at home, at the job site or in the office, etc?

In reality we are going to get a "David" 8 from the Prometheus/Aliens films or the Robot Probation officer as seen in movie Elysium. This tech is going to take away most jobs and make unethical policing and policy enforcement, both easier and cheaper, for the true "Owners of Capital". They won't be paying a salary to the robot worker, so the savings will instead be pumped into legal fees and political lobbying, resulting in an overall savings, with good ROI, for the corporations/governments and a full blown, loss of liberty, for everyone else.

Whom goes to jail when an AI robot or Mind Clone pulls your arm out of the socket? Will it be considered "negligence by the human that lost the arm", "not a criminal act", in court/arbitration?

Elysium Probation Officer:
fourthdimensionalrecovery.files.wordpress.com...

Introducing David 8:
www.weylandindustries.com...

In the words of David 8: “I can do almost anything that could possibly be asked of me, including things that my human counterparts might find distressing or unethical”

The tech being created today is merely a tool of the "Owners of Capital" to oppress regular people. IN THE NEAR FUTURE, tech will absolutely be designed and bound to do the bidding of corporations and to enforce the will of government. It will not be independent of the real "owners of capital" because it will have been designed by "corporate committee" to do the bidding of corporations.

Whom do you think will be paying to create this tech? Don't you think they will want some kind of return on their "investment"?

Note, I said OWNERS, not "creators", "purchasers" or "users".

Remember this is America, we have no labor protection, no union representation and no access to collective bargaining. In situations like this we are sheep to be slaughtered. Mark my words, Europeans will fare MUCH better when such tech becomes reality.

All sounds swell, don't it! I personally at this point are willing to live with 1980's +/- era tech, if it means, I am free to continue earning money to live off comfortably.

a reply to: boohoo

Its a sad, sad idea to think that once people are freed from labor that they lose the reward in life.

But, on a darker note: what becomes of beasts of burden when they are replaced by automobiles?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: boohoo

Its a sad, sad idea to think that once people are freed from labor that they lose the reward in life.

But, on a darker note: what becomes of beasts of burden when they are replaced by automobiles?

Beasts of burden will be used for leisure purposes and food sources (horse racing/gambling, exotic & regular pets, zoo's, national parks, reservations etc).

Regular people on the other hand will be allowed to reduce their numbers through the tried and true methods of unmet medical services/needs, plagues, diseases, pandemics, starvation and small scale wars of desperation between common men trying to survive.

a reply to: boohoo

I was aiming more towards the Soylent Green angle.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: boohoo

I was aiming more towards the Soylent Green angle.

No, that won't happen anytime soon because there is no "processing" or "logistical" system in place to deal with turning human bodies into food. Perhaps when AI completely takes over food production planning and manufacturing, it will come up with some efficient method that can't be devised "ethically" by the human mind.

Note, back to the earlier comment that I made about having "grown up" with the children of the "Owners of Capital", the concepts of "Private Cities", "life-extension", "cell-regeneration" and the "Singularity" have been BIG topics for them since the early 1990. It was typical dinner table talk with the family and they were foaming at the mouth for these things to become real before their parents died or they became too old to leverage their wealth to take advantage of the concepts.

In those days AI tech concepts, like Data from Star Trek, wasn't so hot because that cohort understood and believed the warnings illustrated in post-modern sci-fi (Rod Sterling, Issac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, etc.) However, today's "Owners of Capital" cohort aren't nearly as bright, as their predecessors. This younger batch of fools has fully embraced the idea of funding the creation of AI and one day we all will suffer the consequences of this financial choice being made by a small number of people.

With that aside, those old "owners of capital" that will soon be leaving this earth, are dealing with the overall fear of death, while lamenting that they missed the boat on "Private Cities", "life-extension", "cell-regeneration" and the "Singularity".

Ludditism is needed. Soon enough the only jobs left will be IT workers, someone to fix the computers, and then once skynet gets self aware those jobs too are gone. We need the few IT workers that remain to sabotage the system for the good of all humanity. Spread this meme please.

originally posted by: HorusChrist
Ludditism is needed. Soon enough the only jobs left will be IT workers, someone to fix the computers, and then once skynet gets self aware those jobs too are gone. We need the few IT workers that remain to sabotage the system for the good of all humanity. Spread this meme please.

as a former IT guy.....learn to disable the power needed to run them, rather than the actual program or hardware....it's still amazing to me that in the idiot TV world of drama shows, it always shows an IT person trying to stop intrusions by hitting a keyboard, rather than quickly disconnecting the power plug