It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Antimatter powered Cube Sat coming in 2019

page: 2
10
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 06:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: swanne

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
nuclear reactors is not directly creating propulsion from a nuclear reaction.

Yes, yes I know, but my point is, you are presenting contradictory information. In your OP you state that the CubeSat is using antimatter as direct propulsion method. But then you tell us that in fact the antimatter will trigger a nuclear reactor. I am guessing that this nuclear reaction will in turn produce electricasl charges for an ion drive? In which case I fail to see why they don't simply stick with plutonium? And additionally, then why did you say the AM was used as direct propulsion?


originally posted by: stormbringer1701
no one has deliberately designed a purpose built device to do it nor an effective means to contain large amounts of them for long periods of time.

Keyword here: no effective means exist to conserve antimatter for a long period of time. 17 minutes is not an acceptable period of time when it comes to space travel.

This is what we call a Big Biggie.
you are conflating two separate fact sets. the OP is about this cube sat thing. I also provided some info about ICAN and AIMSTAR when someone objected that micrograms weren't enough to do much of anything in terms of propulsion. it is true that nanograms would not even power up a light bulb. That means you don't have to run for your life if there is a containment breach. but that does not mean that nano grams could not be used in a fancy propulsion system. in fact it will enable missions well into the interstellar medium and back.




posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 06:39 AM
link   

originally posted by: swanne

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
nuclear reactors is not directly creating propulsion from a nuclear reaction.

Yes, yes I know, but my point is, you are presenting contradictory information. In your OP you state that the CubeSat is using antimatter as direct propulsion method. But then you tell us that in fact the antimatter will trigger a nuclear reactor. I am guessing that this nuclear reaction will in turn produce electrical charges for an ion drive? In which case I fail to see why they don't simply stick with plutonium? And additionally, then why did you say the AM was used as direct propulsion?


originally posted by: stormbringer1701
no one has deliberately designed a purpose built device to do it nor an effective means to contain large amounts of them for long periods of time.

Keyword here: no effective means exist to conserve antimatter for a long period of time. 17 minutes is not an acceptable period of time when it comes to space travel.

This is what we call a Big Biggie.



The record, however, is 53 weeks for a single anti-proton? i mention it because 53 weeks is definely more than mission time for most locations inside the heliopause. just saying.



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 06:46 AM
link   

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: MrCrow
But does antimatter actually exist? A quick peruse over the web posits theories but no one has actually "found it". In any case, it's a fantastic topic. S%F.


tell me: What does the P in the Acronym P.E.T. scanner mean? and how long have those diagnostic machines been used in medicine?


OK, consider me edumacated. Not being a particle physicist, I didn't understand the relationship between a positron and antimatter



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 06:53 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xeven

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: stormbringer1701


Security issues aside, antimatter is the costliest material in the world - it costs $25 billion per gram to produce if you are talking about positrons. As for hydrogen antiatoms, they cost a whopping $62.5 trillions per gram to produce.

The whole idea is just ridiculous.


 





I think we will be able to collect antimatter in orbit around planets. We need to learn how to create and control massive magnetic fields and then so much will come available to us in many sciences.



www.wired.com...

Data from the cosmic ray satellite PAMELA has added substantial weight to the theory that the Earth is encircled by a thin band of antimatter.

As far as Safety goes. I think you build half mile long structures to put plenty of distance between Crews and exotic Propulsion. It is really not that difficult to build modular Space Craft since you don't have to worry about gravity, aerodynamics etc... Just build a long train track between Crew areas and Exotic stuff. (Track being useful for transfer of people and materials when needed).

We need to get Robots out there mining asteroids for materials and forming them into usable objects. Hollow Asteroid ship for instance.


magnetic fields in space collect plasma. true story. but that collected plasma then self inflates the magnetic field. it is possible to make such a field 10s of kilometers to 100s of kilometers across using a coffee can sized device called an M2P2 generator. It was developed by professor Wing Lee at Washington University for Space Propulsion. It does not take much power either though it has leakage which must be replaced.



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 06:53 AM
link   
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Are you referring to antimatter-catalysed nuclear pulse propulsion, in which the explosion of the fission itself is providing the thrust?

I dunno... Project Orion already tried this... I do believe there is a treaty which forbids the detonation of nuclear devices on the surface of Earth (because of nuclear fallout risk), and a space treaty which forbids the presence of devices capable of delivering nuclear explosion in space (because of the potential for WMD).


edit on 22-10-2015 by swanne because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 06:56 AM
link   

originally posted by: MrCrow

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: MrCrow
But does antimatter actually exist? A quick peruse over the web posits theories but no one has actually "found it". In any case, it's a fantastic topic. S%F.


tell me: What does the P in the Acronym P.E.T. scanner mean? and how long have those diagnostic machines been used in medicine?


OK, consider me edumacated. Not being a particle physicist, I didn't understand the relationship between a positron and antimatter


a positron is the antiparticle (antimatter twin) of an electron (normal matter.) it has the same mass as an electron but has the opposite charge and annihilates when touched by an electron. the annihilation results in pure high energy photons in the gamma ray part of the EM spectrum. this energy can be used to heat either a thermoelectric converter or to heat and accelerate a working medium to be expelled as rocket exhaust.



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 07:06 AM
link   

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Are you referring to antimatter-catalysed nuclear pulse propulsion, in which the explosion of the fission itself is providing the thrust?

I dunno... Project Orion already tried this... I do believe there is a treaty which forbids the detonation of nuclear devices on the surface of Earth (because of nuclear fallout risk), and a space treaty which forbids the presence of devices capable of delivering nuclear explosion in space (because of the potential for WMD).

Technically ICAN, AIMSTAR, Daedalus, and modern versions of the orion concept would not violate either treaty. but you would still need to get any such launch through the green resistance. with antimatter initiated fission or fusion though the fissionable material would not be activated until the reactor is fired up. it would be safe even if there was a catastrophic failure during launch. you really do not have to do these things with enriched uranium or plutonium.

the antimatter can greatly reduce amount of fission needed to create critical neutron flux. alternatively you could use it to convert thorium into highly fissionable isotope of uranium. thorium is so low in radioactivity you probably have more radioactivity in your body tissue already from the bananas and Brazil nuts you eat. but the form of uranium it converts into is more radioactive than the uranium used to make atomic bombs.



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 07:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
but you would still need to get any such launch through the green resistance.

I happen to be an environmentalist.


but the form of uranium it converts into is more radioactive than the uranium used to make atomic bombs.

Which only adds to my concern. What if a nuclear meltdown occurs? Nuclear was supposed to be safe yet we have seen Tchernobyl, Fukushima. What if some organization decide to steal the enriched uranium and use it for a bomb? What if the craft itself gets hijacked and sent unto a nation?

But also, a great question we need to ask ourselves as a species: will our first leap to the stars, and possibly to those alien civilisations out there, be made on board of ship which floods spaces with radioactive pollutants?



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 07:32 AM
link   

originally posted by: swanne

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
but you would still need to get any such launch through the green resistance.

I happen to be an environmentalist.


but the form of uranium it converts into is more radioactive than the uranium used to make atomic bombs.

Which only adds to my concern. What if a nuclear meltdown occurs? Nuclear was supposed to be safe yet we have seen Tchernobyl, Fukushima. What if some organization decide to steal the enriched uranium and use it for a bomb? What if the craft itself gets hijacked and sent unto a nation?

But also, a great question we need to ask ourselves as a species: will our first leap to the stars, and possibly to those alien civilisations out there, be made on board of ship which floods spaces with radioactive pollutants?

you could convert only as much as you are going to use instant by instant once the craft is safely in a stable orbit or beyond.



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 07:42 AM
link   

originally posted by: MrCrow
But does antimatter actually exist? A quick peruse over the web posits theories but no one has actually "found it". In any case, it's a fantastic topic. S%F.


en.wikipedia.org...

Satellite experiments have found evidence of positrons (as well as a few antiprotons) in primary cosmic rays, amounting to less than 1% of the particles in primary cosmic rays. But no anti-helium was ever detected, nor have there been any regions in the universe that consist entirely of anti-matter.

It remains unknown whether antimatter hydrogen has been able to undergo fusion and form heavier atoms like helium, iron and other elements. If a an anti-matter meteorite were to reach Earth, it would probably self-annihilate itself with the atmosphere before it ever reached the ground. There wouldn't even be a shock wave since electrons and ions would literally disappear in a flash.

"New research has dramatically increased the quantity of positrons that experimentalists can produce. Physicists at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California have used a short, ultra-intense laser to irradiate a millimetre-thick gold target and produce more than 100 billion positrons".



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 07:59 AM
link   

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: MrCrow
But does antimatter actually exist? A quick peruse over the web posits theories but no one has actually "found it". In any case, it's a fantastic topic. S%F.


en.wikipedia.org...

Satellite experiments have found evidence of positrons (as well as a few antiprotons) in primary cosmic rays, amounting to less than 1% of the particles in primary cosmic rays. But no anti-helium was ever detected, nor have there been any regions in the universe that consist entirely of anti-matter.

It remains unknown whether antimatter hydrogen has been able to undergo fusion and form heavier atoms like helium, iron and other elements. If a an anti-matter meteorite were to reach Earth, it would probably self-annihilate itself with the atmosphere before it ever reached the ground. There wouldn't even be a shock wave since electrons and ions would literally disappear in a flash.

"New research has dramatically increased the quantity of positrons that experimentalists can produce. Physicists at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California have used a short, ultra-intense laser to irradiate a millimetre-thick gold target and produce more than 100 billion positrons".
I think this is out of date. anti-helium and i believe anti-lithium have been observed in nature or synthesized.



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 08:25 AM
link   
Follow up: as of 2012 anti-lithium has not yet been synthesized. antihelium has:

www.newscientist.com...

(i could have sworn i read that antilithium had been synthesized.) that would be important because it would form solids at room temperature and thus be easier to contain using magnetism or paramagnetism and vacuum chambers but not requiring cryogenic systems to complicate the problem and thus add an additional point of failure in the process

however; while doing my follow up i found that not only has anti helium has been made in labs but heavy isotopes of anti-helium 4 have been made:

newscenter.lbl.gov...



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 08:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: MrCrow
But does antimatter actually exist? A quick peruse over the web posits theories but no one has actually "found it". In any case, it's a fantastic topic. S%F.

Positrons (antimatter electrons) are used in medical imaging PET scans (positron emission tomography).

The way it works is the antimatter positrons are introduced into the target body in a carrier molecule that becomes spread throughout the body. The carrier molecule is some organic molecule that is usually part of regular biological processes, so that's why it spreads throughout the body. When the positrons in the molecule reaction with the electrons in the body, they annihilate each other, and the PET scanner reads these annihilations, which then produces an image of the inside of the body.


edit on 10/22/2015 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 08:54 AM
link   

originally posted by: swanne
But also, a great question we need to ask ourselves as a species: will our first leap to the stars, and possibly to those alien civilisations out there, be made on board of ship which floods spaces with radioactive pollutants??


Lol.


I love greenpeace people...Space is already filled with radioactive pollutants, in fact its literally brimming with some of the nastiest radiation one can think of....



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 02:17 PM
link   
a reply to: sirChill

Space is mostly vacuum, except for stellar radiations when applicable and crossed by occasional cosmic particles.

Exploding fission bombs in space would leave, behind the ship, a trail of short-lived radioactive matter such as iodine-131, medium-lived radioactive matter such as strontium-90 and caesium-137, and long-lived radioactive matter such as neptunium-237 and plutonium-242.

Meaning that the passage of a ship with nuclear pulse propulsion will leave a trail of heavy matter (which was not there before) whose radioactivity will persist for over 100,000 years. Any planets, moon, ship or possibly even life which will have the misfortune to cross that trail will then be contaminated with a high density of heavy radioactive matter which was not there before.


edit on 22-10-2015 by swanne because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 02:27 PM
link   
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Fair point!


By the way I apologize if I came out strong. I just want you to know that I did not mean to put down your thread or anything. The information you raise in the OP is noteworthy indeed, and my posts were only my personal opinion on the matter. I now realise that our debate might have diminished the impact you intended your thread to have, and for that I present my apologies. Please accept from me a flag and a star for all your posts - even though it is no way enough to mend my rather un-gracious attitude.

Good original post, no matter my personal opinions.



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 06:07 PM
link   

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: sirChill

Space is mostly vacuum, except for stellar radiations when applicable and crossed by occasional cosmic particles.

Exploding fission bombs in space would leave, behind the ship, a trail of short-lived radioactive matter such as iodine-131, medium-lived radioactive matter such as strontium-90 and caesium-137, and long-lived radioactive matter such as neptunium-237 and plutonium-242.

Meaning that the passage of a ship with nuclear pulse propulsion will leave a trail of heavy matter (which was not there before) whose radioactivity will persist for over 100,000 years. Any planets, moon, ship or possibly even life which will have the misfortune to cross that trail will then be contaminated with a high density of heavy radioactive matter which was not there before.



that is a matter of the range the nuclear poo has to travel to get from the creation point to here. every supernova produces gigatons of uranium and tons of plutonium. and when you consider hyper novas, out of main sequence binaries, pulsar and blackhole jets which are nuclear accelerators on a Godly scale...

there is a lot of it if any of it at all manages to strike a little blue and green planet hundreds of thousands or even millions of light years away from the source.



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 06:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Fair point!


By the way I apologize if I came out strong. I just want you to know that I did not mean to put down your thread or anything. The information you raise in the OP is noteworthy indeed, and my posts were only my personal opinion on the matter. I now realise that our debate might have diminished the impact you intended your thread to have, and for that I present my apologies. Please accept from me a flag and a star for all your posts - even though it is no way enough to mend my rather un-gracious attitude.

Good original post, no matter my personal opinions.


No need to apologize. BTW for positrons at least it is possible to make em as needed.
there is now an accelerator the size of an old stub of a pencil. And this cube sat design uses another source. a radio isotope whose decay then creates a few positrons which are then used to power fusion which is used for propulsion.

The thing is this is exactly the scheme for AIM based fission fusion schemes only using a radio isotope to generate the initial antimatter. so this provides engineering precedent and experience for things like AIMSTAR and ICAN. This means such ships are now very much more possible than they were before.
edit on 22-10-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 06:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: sirChill

Space is mostly vacuum, except for stellar radiations when applicable and crossed by occasional cosmic particles.

Exploding fission bombs in space would leave, behind the ship, a trail of short-lived radioactive matter such as iodine-131, medium-lived radioactive matter such as strontium-90 and caesium-137, and long-lived radioactive matter such as neptunium-237 and plutonium-242.

Meaning that the passage of a ship with nuclear pulse propulsion will leave a trail of heavy matter (which was not there before) whose radioactivity will persist for over 100,000 years. Any planets, moon, ship or possibly even life which will have the misfortune to cross that trail will then be contaminated with a high density of heavy radioactive matter which was not there before.

whether anything gets out of a nuclear propulsion system or not depends on the sophistication of the design. you have open systems, semi open systems and completely closed system designs for these things.
edit on 22-10-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2015 @ 03:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: sirChill
Any planets, moon, ship or possibly even life which will have the misfortune to cross that trail will then be contaminated with a high density of heavy radioactive matter which was not there before.



an extremely low density of radioactive matter whose dangers are insignificant next to the omnipresent solar wind and galactic cosmic ray radiation hazards.




top topics



 
10
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join