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How exactly was Jesus' crucifixion a sacrifice?

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posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701


you are wrong on this. i remember the article fairly well. i just don't have the energy to look for it right now given i know how these hunts for old articles can go due to the nature of search engines.


A Christian article from Ron Wyatt im sure...

Feel free to prove me wrong...


edit on 16-12-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 07:06 PM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701

Alternatively, there is no evidence of the Christian 'pantheon' (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) either.

God is an evil arse who lets children suffer for his own enjoyment....or there is no god.

My stance is there is no god.

We don't need to keep a stone age death cult alive any more. We have grown from that.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 07:08 PM
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originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Designing the universe to require a savior implies it was also designed to suffer a preordained villain. Design flaw?
No. I would just say that a being that knows everything foresees everything. He wanted children that could love him and that required the ability to choose no to. So from the very foundation of the universe he knew what would happen and he had a plan to solve the conflict his creation would generate.

As much as our pride might be offended, because we are his creatures he has every right to do with us as he judges. He made all souls and proclaims "All souls belongeth to me. The soul that sins; it shall die." Our souls are not our own. that hurts but it is true. We cannot sell our souls nor can we give them to false gods. The fate of our souls does not depend on our belief that it is so either. God needs no permission.

This 'universe' is designed for growth only; one way to cause it to use polarization; factionalize or divide. No savior is required as will thwart the process and cause stasis. There is no fate of souls at all; as all belong/are part of the original creator being WE are IT. Movement, matter and conscious are needed for anything to exist.
edit on 16-12-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 07:09 PM
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furthermore-

Wasn't the theme of this thread supposed to be"how was Christ's death a sacrifice?"

What has arguments such as are going on now in the thread related to the question at hand?

The question would seem to be a request to explain how the salvation plan, Christ's divinity and the old covenant and law mesh to validate Christ's death as a valid atonement for sin. This was did in my very first post. All of this typical Scoffer jumps in and calls it a fairy tale is not only stale as all get out it's off topic.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 07:11 PM
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originally posted by: stormbringer1701


Wasn't the theme of this thread supposed to be"how was Christ's death a sacrifice?"

What has arguments such as are going on now in the thread related to the question at hand?

.


I guess proving the existence of Christ Jeebus would be fundamental and pertinent to this premise...



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 07:17 PM
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originally posted by: aorAki
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Alternatively, there is no evidence of the Christian 'pantheon' (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) either.

God is an evil arse who lets children suffer for his own enjoyment....or there is no god.

My stance is there is no god.

We don't need to keep a stone age death cult alive any more. We have grown from that.


How do children suffer? why do babies die? why did three men get crushed under a collapsed tower? yet biblically none of them are dead. in the case of children they cannot even be judged to hell if they died without a chance to understand the Gospel and choose. So the children and babies are not dead and cannot go to hell. As for the men Jesus was asked this and he said they did nothing wrong. they were just under the tower when it collapsed. not that God caused it. Not that they were sinners. In a material world bad stuff happens.
edit on 16-12-2015 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: stormbringer1701


Wasn't the theme of this thread supposed to be"how was Christ's death a sacrifice?"

What has arguments such as are going on now in the thread related to the question at hand?

.


I guess proving the existence of Christ Jeebus would be fundamental and pertinent to this premise...


Not in the question that was asked.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 07:52 PM
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follow up. it was 18 men that got crushed:

Luke 13 vs 4-5




Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, Nay: [snip]


Bad stuff happens and it is nearly always a consequence of natural happenings in a material existence; not divine intervention.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701
I would call this a guide provided by the DIVINE: The seven laws that regulate cosmos (ORDER)
Law of orderly trend (not a circus fun house)
Law of analogy (the law of the above and below)
Law of sequence (cause and effect/Karma)
Law of rhythm , vibration; the higher it is (seems in place] (wheels/like hubcaps spinning)
Law of balance, everything has its cosmic price
Law of cyclisity; everything happens in upward spirals. To devolve is a downward spiral
Law of opposites everything happens as a basis of/in relativity; dark defines light, me vs you; the veil that creates the illusion of separateness is the driver.
WHY?

edit on 16-12-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 09:25 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

Have you seen the movie Priest? Something like that, but without all the supernatural beasties.


I really do not see that happening and if the world looks like that then once again religion is the least of their troubles...hehe



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701

Wanting to know about the sacrifice of Christ and the meaning, is obvious....the story tells you, Christ was sacrificed as JESUS by human choice.

If you want to be a Philosophy, then do philosophy. PHI is the condition of philosophy as the WORD OF GOD....prophetic calculated predictions that formed a CODED MESSAGE of spiritual expression....why to express is SION, the condition of Christ.

Awareness, regards what happened to SION via converting...converSION.

Christ and the spiritual observations of Philosophy regarded CHRIST being the Holy Heavenly spirit RETURNING via the 1000 Christ against the 1000 Satan....a holy balance.

Philosophy like modern day scientific study.....gave information about science without being the Scientist/converter who caused the spiritual attacks.

Philosophy was a spiritual awareness that gave evidence of the use of OCCULTISM, to the general public, as a self realized and cause and effect gain of spiritual attacks upon the holy life of humanity on Earth.

This Philosophy belonged to the religious condition of every countries Philosopher, which is why the realizations are factored in all religious teachings as spiritual observations taught in the language of natural expressions, but is the exact same information.

It is the introduction of spiritual attacks causing diseases in Nature...animals...plagues in human life....and natural disaster activations as a prophecized witness account.

Christ related to the murder of the human spirit via the ALPHA MAN atmospheric wavelength condition....therefore human life inherited the Christ stigmata...bleeding from the natural cellular body....having a changed brain/mind condition and speaking in strange languages as the brain and its natural wavelengths were attacked.

The ancient Philosophers therefore had to prove in the public that the actual elite who owned the scientific ancient occcult application of using stone levitation through the transmitted world relayed Giza Pyramid/temple scheme....were the cause of the spiritual attacks....via unholy spiritual manifestations also witnessed as the UFO/ALIEN anima attacks of a changed Satanic spirit.

Therefore the Philosophers had to prove to the occultists who practiced occultism, that they were murdering the holy spirit in the Heavenly body......microbial population that attacked Nature and also human life...along with water pollution and oxygen losses.

The Philosophers did prove to the public that the holiness of the Christ Heavenly spirit had been murdered in the Year 33AD due to occultist practices.

They prophecized all future predictible outcomes via the relayed transmitted PHI signal....and all circumstances manifested as proof. This was the only way that the ancient Philosophers could prove to the occultists that they were in fact causing all of the attacks to the life on Earth....including the destruction of the Earth's natural seal and fuSION.

They proved it, formed an army as the Holy War and then went about a world wide search for the occultists and murdered them.

The reason that the Muslim community were attacked, was because they had a huge scientific occultist support, and why isn't it obvious to the world community that Muslims themselves were involved in the support of the Holy War to attack and destroy the human occultists who were prepared to destroy all life on Earth due to their own mind possession.

The ancient Philosophers realized that no amount of discussions or information had made any difference to these possessed human minds and so the only consideration they held was to murder them......this is the ancient realization of consciousness and spirit and why our Heaven is considered to be a Holy Body that supports the Holy spirit for all life continuance.



posted on Dec, 16 2015 @ 10:58 PM
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a reply to: beenharmed
No God Creator as embodied by the all "man" Christ Consciousness spirit form encompassing 'the concept of dying (sacrificing itself) for sins committed present/future/past as forever forgiven' would allow Itself to be crucified by Lessor Beings unless for an ignoble cause/false PREMISE; the idea is laughable. God allows itself to kill itself BY inferior minded PROXY agents? Hoping the message "The Kingdom of God is Within You" will grow legs as a very esoteric idea?
edit on 16-12-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 01:53 AM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Cogito, Ergo Sum

originally posted by: Xtrozero
It always seems to go the same way, an atheist says I do not care about religion but I have one question..lol


Lots of atheists care about religion, even if it is only to despise it...



They fear theocratic dictatorship.


Quite rightly so in many instances TzarChasm.

Though I find many other reasons to also view organised religion less than favourably. Such as the propensity to indoctrinate young and impressionable minds with their ridiculous and cultish ideology under the guise of education. Keep it out of the education system entirely, no tax breaks for religious groups (only on funds used to directly help the less fortunate) or any education institution that promotes any type of religious dogma. For starters...



edit on 17-12-2015 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 04:01 AM
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originally posted by: stormbringer1701

The question would seem to be a request to explain how the salvation plan, Christ's divinity and the old covenant and law mesh to validate Christ's death as a valid atonement for sin. This was did in my very first post. All of this typical Scoffer jumps in and calls it a fairy tale is not only stale as all get out it's off topic.


There is as much evidence to prove Hercules existed as there is for Jesus. There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus.

But, for the sake of the argument, let's assume he did exist: if he really died to save us the whole thing is disturbing, no matter how you look at it:

If God wanted a human sacrifice to save us, then God is one sick deity.
If Jesus offered his human life as a sacrifice, then he committed suicide.

But he never died, did he? He never lost his place in heaven, he never lost his eternal life. He never sacrificed anything for us. The crucifixion was not a sacrifice.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

A human male created the concepts of occultism.....before this circumstance we lived as spiritual beings, without the occult practices/science...the ancient science was levitation of stone.

The male, who knew that he was the cause of the creation via an act of destruction, has always told lies to his own person....as the writer of these documents.....for by factual evidence no documents exist that is spiritual truth/reality and nor does science, for it is his own created advice.

For example SINCE WHEN does SIN, be changed? How can SIN, being an actual scientific equation be changed, when its factor factor the condition? FALSE.

We were made manifest as an organic being...do we die....YES....not forgiven...FALSE.

GOD the concept of the human male who wanted to own Satanic occult spirit chemical advices....FALSE...for Satan did not exist until he made Satan exist for his own natural self lived and existed in a much higher massed atmospheric body, which he changed and then was incinerated by Satan...just as ancient evidence in archaeology demonstrates.

Therefore if you stopped using the GOD concept as if it is reality, then you would realize that occultism is an evil practice formed by an evil male consciousness who overtook life on Planet Earth as if he owned everything himself.

This is the true spiritual inheritance of our own holy family.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 08:11 PM
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a reply to: beenharmed
Not a male so you have no handshake agreement from my bully pulpit/soapbox stance regarding your argument/diatribe. Sin; by 'someones' definition are just 'value points' added to engender individualized Karma (good luck) stickiness.


edit on 17-12-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

If any human was questioning if the occult community was studying human life via a forum argument, then obviously many of these postings demonstrate that you are.

Of course I am not a male....obviously you believe that Jesus Christ is a transmitted world signal that Healer spirits belong to....and study humanity as if we are Jesus Christ.

Our ancient brother, who created science via the concepts of holographic memory gained his own information from the "burnt spirit" in Nature, through the use of somatic drugs taken from poisonous plants. Therefore his own spiritual information was always wrong, always was wrong, for his science has always destroyed his life.

Obviously he does not believe he is wrong and no matter what is said to him, he won't believe he is wrong....yet all spiritual evidence states that he caused the act of origin light destruction, he then manifested on origin Earth creation, destroyed this life also and the Universe...and is still continuing to destroy life and Earth.

What is wrong with you?

Do you still believe that you are going to be converted back into a light spirit....by your own occultist conclusions, obviously your spiritual psyche believes it is going to happen.

Our family has been trying to bring your spiritual attention to a fact that we are all aware of...we never left the light. Our own higher light self lost only a portion of its spirit to a lower organic manifested life. When we die we find ourselves in the light as the higher androgynous self we have always been. You don't believe us due to all of the factors that belong to the destruction of your own life and spirit.

This also includes the Satanic presence that was formed as a spirit self in the atmospheric body of Earth's altered atmosphere....you always believed it was your own spirit. Yet your spirit is a human life, an organic being, not an atmospheric angel.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 08:55 PM
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OP. Since it seems you're "intelligent" enough to be "bewildered" by simple biblical knowledge and beliefs. I'd stick to asking "questions" on things, you actually "believe" in, or about.

You're asking a very "common knowledge question" of who? People that think as you do?

Your OP, was more of a "statement"
than a "question". And yes! It was that obvious.


How's this? You "sacrifice" yourself, for the world? Being innocent of committing, no crime.

Ask a stupid question, after that. I'll wait.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 09:14 PM
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op: how was Abram's attempt to fulfill God's directive to slay his (abram's) own son a sacrifice?

Look closely at that bearing in mind that it was an example of what is called biblical typology in this case foreshadowing What God would do with his own son with no one to stay his own hand.

then look at the Torah for it's rules sacrifice and for rules for conducting a trial.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 09:16 PM
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originally posted by: beenharmed
a reply to: vethumanbeing

beenharmed: if any human was questioning if the occult community was studying human life via a forum argument, then obviously many of these postings demonstrate that you are. Of course I am not a male....obviously you believe that Jesus Christ is a transmitted world signal that Healer spirits belong to....and study humanity as if we are Jesus Christ.

We are not Jesus Christ; we are individualized souls of a binary type subdivided by our creator. What you are speaking of is an ideaform OVERLAY called "Christ Consciousness".

beenharmed: Our ancient brother, who created science via the concepts of holographic memory gained his own information from the "burnt spirit" in Nature, through the use of somatic drugs taken from poisonous plants. Therefore his own spiritual information was always wrong, always was wrong, for his science has always destroyed his life.

Terrence McKenna, Marshall McLuhan, Daniel Pinchbeck, Robert Monroe, Tom Campbell or Ken Kesey? (there are many others).

beenharmed: Obviously he does not believe he is wrong and no matter what is said to him, he won't believe he is wrong....yet all spiritual evidence states that he caused the act of origin light destruction, he then manifested on origin Earth creation, destroyed this life also and the Universe...and is still continuing to destroy life and Earth.
What is wrong with you?

Better question; what is wrong with Lucifer's ideology (as the informer to the human) and why so misinterpreted.


beenharmed: Do you still believe that you are going to be converted back into a light spirit....by your own occultist conclusions, obviously your spiritual psyche believes it is going to happen. Our family has been trying to bring your spiritual attention to a fact that we are all aware of...we never left the light. Our own higher light self lost only a portion of its spirit to a lower organic manifested life. When we die we find ourselves in the light as the higher androgynous self we have always been. You don't believe us due to all of the factors that belong to the destruction of your own life and spirit.

I guess your perception is this: YOU ARE ON THE LOSING TEAM.

beenharmed: This also includes the Satanic presence that was formed as a spirit self in the atmospheric body of Earth's altered atmosphere....you always believed it was your own spirit. Yet your spirit is a human life, an organic being, not an atmospheric angel.

I think the Earth can take care of herself without your epiphanies regarding her health and well being. My spirit belongs to the AUO (individualized).
edit on 17-12-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)




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