Christianity and Islam Unite

a reply to: enlightenedservant

1st we have the understand historical context.

Following Julius Caesar who in 42 BC was formally deified as "the Divine Julius", and Caesar Augustus henceforth became Divi filius ("Son of the Divine One"), some (not all) Roman Emperors of the 1st to 4th centuries claimed divinity, including Tiberius 14–37, Caligula 37–41, Claudius 41–54, Hadrian 117–138, Commodus 161–192, Constantine I 306–312, Julian the Apostate 361–363
en.m.wikipedia.org...

Kings claiming divine origin was common from Pharoh until Mohammed. However, most of these men made the same claim as Pharoh. Their mother was impregnated by God similar to the
incubus and succubus myths.

Virgin Sacrifice was another myth disputed by Mohammed. The idea was to sacrifice a female to God, to sexually please God.

Mary was not impregnated by a sexual act with God. She was a virgin at the time of conception and through delivery of Jesus. Both NT and Quran agee.

God did not (have/beget/take) a child in the human way. Nor does he take a wife. Which is what others were claiming. Mohammed is disputing the rumors that God has children by having sex which is made more clear here.

What? Has your Lord favoured you people with sons and taken daughters for Himself from the angels? What a monstrous thing for you to say! (Surah 17:40)

This also shows God thinks female children are equal to male children.

Quran 19:35. It is not for God to (have, beget, take) a child, glory be to Him. To have anything done, He says to it, “Be,” and it becomes.

I agree God did not have a child with Mary.

Genesis 1:3
And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

God said Be and the Light/Jesus became.

John 8:12
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

God only says "Be", he does not (have/beget/take) a child for his own in the human way. But he did say "Be" and Jesus became the Light, the Word of God and a Spirit from him.

The biggest question, do believe Hadith or the Quran?

Torah - "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," (2:87)

Psalms - "We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms," (4:163).

NT Gospel - Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel(of the Holy Spirit): therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).

...the Quran says that the Word of God cannot be altered

"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).

"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all," (6:115).
carm.org...

The Quran says the Torah, the Psalms and the NT were from God, and God's words cannot be altered. However God's word can be misunderstood.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

The Quran is not the only non corrupted book. There is none that can alter the words of God. The arrogance of such claim is not found in the Quran, it is found only in Hadith.

This is why this is the only correct interpretation of 4:171

171. O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion, and do not say about God except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, is the Messenger of God, and His Word that He conveyed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and do not say, “Three.” Refrain—it is better for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him—that He should have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and the earth, and God is a sufficient Protector.www.holybooks.com...

Jesus is the son of God. Created when God said "Let there be Light".

The trinity(three) is false. God did not (have, beget, take) a child like a normal human child. Nor did he create an equal to himself. But he did say "Be" and his son became.

If you believe the Quran, then you must believe God's words are not corrupt, and any apparent contradiction in the OT, NT and Quran must be from misunderstanding.

God's words cannot be corrupted.

Jesus is the one and only Son of God. But there is good news for the rest of us.

Ephesians 1:5
God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.

Jesus is our Messiah and through our Messiah we have become adopted children of God. Therefore we are all God's children through adoption. But Jesus is the only one whom God said "Be", which is why he is the only one who is said to be the Word of God, and the one and only Son of God.

The bible is not corrupt. The Quran is not corrupt.

Only the arrogant who seek to divide mankind for personal gain claim God's words are corrupted.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Dude, you did all of that typing & completely ignored the passages directly from the Qur'an that say God has no son and God took on no son. How is the Prophet Jesus God's "son" when the Qur'an directly states he isn't?

1. Surat Al-'Isrā' (The Night Journey), 17:111
2. Surat Maryam (Mary), 19:35
3. Surat Maryam (Mary), 19:92
4. Surat Al-Mu'minūn (The Believers), 23:91
5. Surat Al-Jinn (The Jinn), 72:3

Also, there are so many vastly different versions of the New & Old Testaments that what you said is impossible. For one, the Samaritan Pentateuch (the "Torah" of the 10 Northern Tribes of Israel) is different from the "Torah" of the Tribe of Judah (which is the Torah version included in the TaNaKh). How can there be "no alterations" when even the Israelite tribes don't agree on what those books say?

Second, Biblical scholars largely agree that the "Torah" of the Tribe of Judah (the Jewish Torah) was compiled from 4 completely different sources. The Jahwists & Elohists are the most famous of the 2, and are the reason some books refer to God as YHWH & others refer to Him as Elohim. This is literally why there are multiple books in the Old Testament that tell the same stories but with noticeable variations. This version of the Torah is included in the TaNaKh, which Western Christianity adapted into the "Old Testament".

Third, the TaNaKh (24 books) is vastly different from the Septuagint (51 books), which is much longer & includes more books than the Old Testaments of Protestants (39 books) & Catholics (46 books). Many Eastern denominations use the Septuagint's longer version of the Old Testament. And the Ethiopian Church uses an even longer version of the Old Testament; and remember, they accepted Christianity before the Romans did. The Dead Sea Scrolls have shown that the ancient TaNaKh of that time period included some of the books in the Septuagint that aren't in the "accepted" version of the TaNaKh, which implies the accepted version has been shortened.

Fourth, the "Gospels" are 2nd & 3rd hand accounts of the Prophet Jesus's experiences, since Paul & his fellow Apostles never actually met the Prophets Jesus or John the Baptist. This is also why the Gospels don't teach about large chunks of either of those Prophets' lives; because the Apostles literally didn't know what they did in that time frame! In fact, Saul/Paul spent most of his life prosecuting the Prophet Jesus' actual followers, like many of the Essene sects. Also, Western Christianity accepts Paul's versions of the New Testament, but the Didache is the version of the New Testament that rejects Paul's teachings while teaching what the other Apostles said.

And these are literally just the beginnings of the different versions. So how can you claim those books aren't altered & that Muslims should accept them as unaltered? Biblical scholars will be the first ones to tell you there have been major revisions, additions, deletions, and alterations.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I explained myself clearly and included the historical context that brought about those passages. A very common interpretation is "begotten", some interpretations say "have" some say "taken".

All of these verses dispute God having sexual relations with women or angels.

There is no verse in the Quran that says Jesus is not the son of God. There is no trinity and God created no equal partner for himself. But Quran doesn't say Jesus is not his son.

There are however verses in the Quran that are identical to the verses in the OT and NT that say not all who claim to be children of God are children of God.

Deuteronomy 32:5
They have acted corruptly toward him; to their shame they are no longer his children, but a warped and crooked generation.

1John 3:10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

Just like Muslims dispute the translation/meaning of the Quran. So the Jews and Christians also dispute the translation/meaning of the Torah and NT.

The original Arabic Quran is unchanged. The original Hebrew Torah is unchanged and the Original Greek NT is unchanged. We have copies of these books from 2000 years ago that prove that they have been unchanged in 2000 years.

I was lucky to see for myself a good portion of the dead sea scrolls. The dead sea scrolls along with other historical manuscripts prove the Torah and NT are unchanged since 600 years before prophet Mohammed.

The interpretations are in question, just like in Islam. You can't claim religious superiority of interpretation when your own religion is fractured by opposing interpretations.

God's words cannot be altered, this is directly quoted from the Quran. Why do you refuse to believe what your own scriptures clearly state?

The interpretation I am giving you is the only way to understand all 3 texts without a contradiction. You can claim religious superiority and keep yourself divided, or you can believe the Quran.

The very simple and easy way to understand the two ways Mohammed claims God does not have children in the Quran.

God does not beget/have/take children through intercourse with women or female angles. He only says "Be", and whatever he says "Be", becomes.

Jesus is the only one created by the Word of God. "Let there BE Light"(Jesus). Jesus is the Word of God and a Spirit from him. No others were created by the word of God. This is why Jesus is the one and only Son of God.

The second dispute to God having children is the same as the OT and NT. Those who do not follow God's laws have no claim of being God's (adopted) children.

I have not presented you with anything complicated. Let go of religious superiority and embrace what the Quran clearly says.

Torah - "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," (2:87)

Psalms - "We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms," (4:163).

NT Gospel - Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel(of the Holy Spirit): therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).

...the Quran says that the Word of God cannot be altered

"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).

"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all," (6:115).
carm.org...

Tell me what these passages mean if they do not mean exactly what is clearly written. I have given you a clear and precise interpretation of the Quranic verses about God's children that causes no contradiction to God's unchanged word in all 3 texts.

The 3 must be able to be reconciled since the 3 are all the unchanged words of God.

You are in error of your own Quran if you believe God's words have been corrupted. The Quran calls Moses and Jesus prophets and Jesus is also called Messiah (Savior/King). The words of God's prophets and Messiah are not corrupt, nor can they be corrupted.

Some ATS members believe that religion is made for divide and conquer. Well of course it can be used for divide and conquer like many other things, like race and .....

But what you dear members may not pay attention is that they are united. I may not know what the correct word is, but they, zhionist Muslims, Jews and Christians, they are all united under the flag of their New World Order.
Assad is not worse than other Arab dictators. But Syria, Iraq, Yemen, ...... all these points are important for their world order. When lots of Syrian refugies swarmed towards EU to escape from EU supported terrorists in Syria, EU countries frightened and decided to solve the crisis in Syria politically !!!
They are all united, are not they. Al-Qaeda, Bush family, Sep 11, Saud family, Bin Laden family, Nethanyahoo and ISIS, Armageddon.
They themselve made ISIS and they themselves said that ISIS is the Khurasan group, and that they are soldiers of Mahdi and Mahdi is the anti-christ.

Those corrupted people among Christians, Jews and Muslims, they are all united under the flag of Lucifer and they are all playing for one goal, for their stupid end time games. The stupid end time games of ignorant people among Christians, Jews and Muslims.

They themselves are the soldiers of the anti-christ. They are wrong and they are on the wrong side.
Believers should get united only under one flag, that is God.

The point is not who is Muslim or Christian or Jew, the point is that who is for the evil and who is against the evil. This is one of the main aims of religions, specially monotheistic religions.

World needs righteous leaders, this is the upcoming divine world order, promised in the divine books. They are swimming the wrong way, no matter how they strive, stream of awareness and justice seekers will push them back and to where people and God want. They more they struggle the more they become fatigued and the more people will know their true face.
It is enough that will of people become aligned with will of God. This is the unchangeable fate.

If you eliminate all religions except one -- with violent, bloody purges of billions of people, I assume -- people will find something else to fight about. Besides, just because people all agree on one religion doesn't mean they'll agree on all the details. Ask ten different Apocalyptic Christians what the Seven Seals are, and you'll get 10 different answers.

originally posted by: sickofthelies
How can Christians ever merge with a religion that has extremists who torture and behead them simply for being Christian? The whole premise is absurd.

On the contrary, how could Muslims ever merge with a religion [Christianity] that has extremists which torture and massacre them simply for being Muslim?

Seriously, look into Christian terrorism. It has happened and it continues to happen today in parts of the Middle-East and Africa. Some radical Christians run around, burn people on stakes and massacre civilians, many of them Muslims.

I think people give religion an unfair rap though. While it does contribute to differences in opinions and beliefs, terrorism is arguably a result of the social, economic and political statuses of a country and its civilians. It's unfair to smear an entire demographic of people.

There needs to be less organized religion rather than more of it.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Well let me first tell you a true story and then show you how unity can be reached against corruption, evilness and extremism which have been existed always. It seems as if history repeats and repeats.
Husayn, Husayn ibn Ali, was a muslim leader. He was an alone leader and grandchildren of prophet of muslims. Amazingly so called muslims, those who were very similar to nowadays muslim extremists like ISIS, Al-Qaeda, ….., those who have been always serving pharaohs, they killed him like John the Baptist and his 72 helpers with the worst manners and even his six-month infant !
Husayn shouted : If you have no religion, at least be human
Here is a site explaining it a bit:
whoishussain.org...

Wahab was a Christian from a Christian tribe, no matter whether he converted to Islam or not but for sure he was converted into humanity.
Wahab was among the few people and companions of Husayn who himself and his mother were martyred in the tragedy of Karbala, by hands of extremist muslims.
This clip is part of a movie made by muslims which explains the braveness of Wahab.

Dedicated to all innocent Christians whose bloods were mixed with innocent Muslims and killed by extremist
Muslims who are supported by their masters among corrupted western and eastern zhionist pharaohs and powers.

"""you will find that the most people in enmity to the believers are the jews and idolaters, and that the nearest in affection to the believers are those who say: 'we are Christians. ' that is because amongst them there are priests and monks; and because they are not proud. ً(Quran 5:82)"""
vimeo.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> vimeo.com...

a reply to: Georg90

Hey Islam, Christianity,Judaism are 3 sides of the same triangle and didn't always hate each other. Jerusalem was literally the city of peace. Until European monarchies and a holy war caused so much bloodshed. It was a different time, that's what you get when you mention the crusades. Roman Catholicism has been the single most disgusting hypocritical religion to ever exist. Human sacrifice cults like the freemasons are based off of are less evil. And they are not George Washington caliber men anymore. Even their low level members don't know what the distinguished masres are up to. And even they answer to the dirnk lairnd

I've been a Senior Pastor at a Christian church for 30 years and I think Islam is a beautiful religion, honors Jesus and Mary, and are educated in the bible more than we are in the Koran...and some of us even the bible. They have no issues with christians and are willing to dialogue with out nasty arguments over minor theology. If the people who inhabit Israel were more reasonable it would save a lot of lives. They are cousins religiously, even if the Ashkenazim aren't genetic descendants of Israel ot Judah. Zionism is a complete success if they could only build a temple of Solomon.

The difference is that mainstream Christianity thinks Israel is still relevant. Although the the bible foretold otherwise...
Jeremiah 31:31-33
Romans 11:17-24
Galatians 3:28,29
Romans 9:6
Romans 2:28,29
Acts 15:14
Matthew 21:43
Matthew 3:9
Matthew 23:37,38

Muslims and other non-Muslims that delve into the scriptures to actually see what they say, rather than support Israel because their politically motivated or merely ignorrant pastor told them to, don't see the significance of Israel. Israel is no longer a "special nation." And they really just cause more problems than fix. There is a fundamental difference between Islam and mainstream pseudo-Christianity. One will kill others to protect Jews, the other wants to kill the Jews.

a reply to: TheCretinHop

Christianity has become a Zionist puppet and everyone kisses Israels Ass. 3000 year old myths don't amount to justification for violating the land of Palestine and stealing land that they had no right to. We could have given them their own sovereign stat somewhere in this huge nation. BBut somethineeg about that land is valuable betond religious beliefs