Single Element Proof The Bible Is BS

a reply to: redoubt

Stop bringing the word "allow" into the discussion. This isn't about preventing or allowing someone to do something. It's about what about the Bible makes it a valid history book. Stop trying to frame the argument around infringing on someone's rights. That is a red herring.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: TheSorrow
a reply to: Shiloh7

Thanks for that thought. I don't agree with much of it. For starters, There are many Biblical examples of people rebelling against the government. The government is not always right even in the Bible. The fiery furnace is one example of that. Christians however do use the passage about rendering to Caesar what is Caesar's as an excuse to ignore God's Commandments and simply obey the government.

Paul is very clear on this subject in Romans 13:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer.Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.

Obviously not all Christians are literalists but there is a large and noisy faction that insist on their literal interpretation of Paul when it comes to homosexuality who completely ignore the above passage.

Isn't Paul the very same guy who also is the most blatant in the new testament in his anti-homosexual sentiment and for that reason many who are pro-homosexual tend to tell us that Paul should be disregarded as someone who was never a "true" disciple and that we should only listen to Jesus who never directly taught against homosexuality?

Yes, there are Christians who make that argument. There are also Christians who make the argument that Paul was not talking about the kind of consensual same-sex relationships we now define as "gay."

And there are Christians who selectively quote Paul when advocating that the government force their beliefs on others while ignoring Paul's instructions about obeying the government or about celibacy being the best choice for heterosexuals. Which was my original point.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

"This isn't about preventing or allowing someone to do something. It's about what about the Bible makes it a valid history book."

Fair enough... but if your neighbor next door chose to believe the Holy Bible as being history... what would be your preferred remedy?

originally posted by: SPECULUM
Well, I'm sure there are many faceted proofs that for the most part, the Bible is BS. But this Element in the Bible takes the Cake by far

"Tower of Babel" I mean, Come on. All peoples of the Earth are living in the same location? and happen to build a Tower to the heavens and pisses God off, so he changes everyone nationality and language

Hell he doesn't even change their location...They all seem to find their way...Its Amazing

It takes 3000 plus years and google translate and we're back where we started

Wonder how God will feel if we start building that Tower again?

It was Lord God who did this. Dont blame Lord Gods doings on God.

originally posted by: amazing
Well here's a question or two...serious.

Why not change the bible and take out the offending versus and make the old testament a separate history tome and add in some of the books that were deleted.

Secondly, any sane person would question some of the versus and stories in the bible that are either contradictory or crazy, such as the story of Lot.

You can't just say "stop bible bashing" because real Christians have the same questions. And you can't say that the bible is the unerring word of God and cannot be changed because it was already change a few times including by Constantine who, in my opinion, was not a Christian but invoked that name to consolidate power.

If you believe in the Bible- then you are prohibited from making any changes. You cannot add or change up the text. The Bible prohibits this.

If you understand the different dispensations, and how the Bible is many books selected to create one Bible- then it becomes easier and easier to understand.

There are 66 books in the Bible - 39 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament. The books include the books of law, poetry, history, major and minor prophets, Gospel, and letters. Put them altogether and you got yourself a Bible. Understanding the seven dispensations would also help clarify a lot of the questions mentioned above. And corrected many errors

originally posted by: TheSorrow
a reply to: DelMarvel

Haha, sure we should obey the government. However, The Bible clearly indicates that there are exceptions to this. Acts 5:27-29 and various other passages makes this clear. I cannot speak for Christians. Only letting you know what the Bible says on this matter.

I was talking specifically about Paul.

But surprise, surprise. There are passages in the infallible Bible that contradict each other.

a reply to: redoubt

A logical discussion with him about it so that I can hopefully persuade him to adopt reasoning and logic over propaganda and brainwashing. Though, in reality, I'd probably just try to avoid a religious conversation with him altogether since I don't like having face to face conversations with people about religion or politics.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

"I'd probably just try to avoid a religious conversation with him altogether since I don't like having face to face conversations with people about religion or politics."

So... would it not be better just to allow them to live their lives as they choose as you live yours as you choose?

a reply to: SPECULUM

Why not just headline your thread as, hey lets bash one
of the best examples of ancient literature we have like
a bunch of ignorant monkeys.

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: TheSorrow
a reply to: DelMarvel

Haha, sure we should obey the government. However, The Bible clearly indicates that there are exceptions to this. Acts 5:27-29 and various other passages makes this clear. I cannot speak for Christians. Only letting you know what the Bible says on this matter.

I was talking specifically about Paul.

But surprise, surprise. There are passages in the infallible Bible that contradict each other.

I would just simply suggest that your assumption that it there is a contradiction is based on a lack of understanding. I have no way of knowing your level of education or how much time you have invested in studying the Bible. But if you're able to study it in its entirety, Step back and look at it's wholeness you can see themes that might seem contradictory to some people. I'm not trying to make the point that it's a work of fiction or a work of God. After years of studying And six years in a seminary I believe that there's more to it than what people realize if they just pick it up once in a while and read a random passage that fits their agenda or own personal belief.

a reply to: redoubt

That's pretty much what I just got done saying. For the SECOND time, I'm not trying to force my will on anyone here. I'm just trying to get a valid reason why we should consider the bible a valid history book. You haven't actually answered that premise instead deciding to stay focused on me. I'M not the topic of conversation. The bible is. Please stop pursuing this red herring.

a reply to: redoubt

I certainly agree with the heart of what you're saying. And for most people I think that is best. I enjoy having discussions on religion because people are so deeply invested in it. This includes, maybe even especially includes those who claim to be atheist. I've discovered in many conversations that atheists are more outspoken then Christians and other persons with a religious affiliation. People have an intense desire to know more about God or whether they realize it or not. You can really get to know someone by starting a conversation about religion. People speak more truthfully, openly and honestly about religion then most other topics. It can really bring out the heart of a person and reveal more about who they are. That's why topics on religion interest me so much. You really get to see people for who they are.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, not pursuing a red or... any fishy.

The thing is... I have known so many people over so many years with so many conflicting beliefs but... they rarely arrived at a point in their lives where they were offended by the next. In fact, there were... and sometimes still are, incredible conversations comparing beliefs.

It's not a bad way to go... promise.

Okay, I'm done. Thanks for allowing me in

a reply to: TheSorrow

Did it ever occur to you that atheists (at least the ex-Christians) may be wanting to actually PROVE god's existence so that we have more to go on than just a wing and a prayer? Hence why they are so critical of Christian accounts.

originally posted by: TheSorrow

originally posted by: amazing
Well here's a question or two...serious.

Why not change the bible and take out the offending versus and make the old testament a separate history tome and add in some of the books that were deleted.

Secondly, any sane person would question some of the versus and stories in the bible that are either contradictory or crazy, such as the story of Lot.

You can't just say "stop bible bashing" because real Christians have the same questions. And you can't say that the bible is the unerring word of God and cannot be changed because it was already change a few times including by Constantine who, in my opinion, was not a Christian but invoked that name to consolidate power.

If you believe in the Bible- then you are prohibited from making any changes. You cannot add or change up the text. The Bible prohibits this.

If you understand the different dispensations, and how the Bible is many books selected to create one Bible- then it becomes easier and easier to understand.

There are 66 books in the Bible - 39 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament. The books include the books of law, poetry, history, major and minor prophets, Gospel, and letters. Put them altogether and you got yourself a Bible. Understanding the seven dispensations would also help clarify a lot of the questions mentioned above. And corrected many errors

But here's the problem with what you just said. The Bible is considered a "book" by almost every Christian I know. They don't separate it as law, poetry history etc, but they are merely chapters to everyone all just minor parts of the whole. You know that to be true. What is the problem with this? Christians can quote the old testament as truth, even when it contradicts the teachings of Jesus. In Sunday school, we were all just taught the stories as truth, there was never any isolation and explanation of the dispensations. So the story of Lot was taught as a moral story and a story of truth. In Sunday sermons. the pastor never says, let's talk about poetry now, not to be taken literally, no they just pick a verse and read it as if it IS to be taken literally.

You also said "...If you believe in the Bible- then you are prohibited from making any changes. You cannot add or change up the text. The Bible prohibits this..." But I say unto thee, that Constantine for one example already did this. We don't have the unerring world of God. It's already been changed.

a reply to: TheSorrow

Thanks for the reply

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't think that the Bible's truth or accuracy (or lack of it) will ever be proven in such a way that people will buy into it or reject it. The Bible itself says that until people experience God (Spirit) for themselves the Bible is foolishness to them. (1 COR 2:14)

a reply to: amazing

I was certainly agree that the average American's understanding of the Bible including Christians but not limited to them is lacking.

May i just jump in here and say that unless the Holy spirit is within you, you will never understand the bible..
End of story..

originally posted by: TheSorrow
a reply to: amazing

I was certainly agree that the average American's understanding of the Bible including Christians but not limited to them is lacking.

Are you a Christian?