WAR: US Jets Over Iran, Unidentified Aircraft Ordered Shot Down

Is this credible enough, Seeker? I'm not familiar with these news sources.

www.iranian.ws...
www.dailytimes.com.pk...

Of course, they've been warning us to stay out of their airspace for a long time.

www.middle-east-online.com...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.islam-online.net...

[edit on 3-1-2005 by Damned]

We need to stay out of their air-space, if in fact, we're flexing again. It's time for americans to understand we can,t win conventional wars anymore. We can still bomb the hell out of the world but that just won't win the war anymore. We need to back-off and not get pushed into a corner where the neos will start selling the need to use our nukes.

If in fact American military aircraft are close to or over the border of Iran it is more likely for intelligence gathering.

Iran as a country that is politically hostile to the US mission in Iraq must be taken as a threat by any air command in the theatre, to do otherwise is negligent.

In order to fix radar, sam batteries and command / control procedures of a potential opponent it is neccessary to make incursions to provoke the activation of defence systems, this in turn verifies their current position and potential force disposition including response time and command structure.

These are probes of Iranian defence's for intelligence reasons, not a crass way to make an incident as a prelude to an attack.

We're much more subtle than that if we really wish to attack or invade.

[edit on 3-1-2005 by Phoenix]

From www.worldnetdaily.com:

The U.S. military was silent on the veracity of the reports. However, one source said he would not be surprised if the reports were accurate, given the building international tensions over the state of Iran's nuclear weapons program. "The circular maneuvering of the two American fighters indicated them as carrying out spying sorties and controlling the borders," said an Iranian official.

Should I remind everyone in here that many times Iran/iraq have had disputes, and wars, over what they call their territory or borders?

Since Saddam is not in power, and the interim government in Iraq is still young, with no strong military infrastructure....who is to say that Iran is not now claiming territory that used to be from Iraq?.... Did anyone even think about that?....

Let me remind you why Iran and Iraq went to war in 1980.

In 1980 war erupted between Iran and Iraq. This war resulted in hundreds of thousands of casualties and a tremedous loss of oil revenues for both countries The war eventually ended in 1988 but anomosities have persisted. While the causes of the conflict were numerous and varied, one of the principals was access to, and control of, the Shatt-al-Arab waterway. Control of the waterway and its use as a border have been a source of contention between various states since The Peace Treaty of 1639. Ambiguities in this agreement (between the Persians and the Ottoman Empire) led to continual disputes that have not been resolved to this day. See maps of Iraq and Iran respectively below.

Excerpted from.
www.american.edu...

Also, perhaps some of you would remember that those British soldiers that were captured by iranian forces stated that they were within Iraqi waters when they were..."taken prisoners".... Yet, the Iranians made the Brittish prisoner state in tv otehrwise while they were being held.

We had some threads dealing with this also in ATSNN.

I think that it is highly probable, if in fact what the Iranians saw were US aircraft, that what I explained above, could very well be the case. The US planes could have been flying close to Iran, but within the border of Iraq, and the Iranians decided to start their sable-rattling about borders once again...




[edit on 4-1-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddibwho is to say that Iran is not now claiming territory that used to be from Iraq?.... Did anyone even think about that?....

Let me remind you why Iran and Iraq went to war in 1980.

It was Saddam who tried to take control of the Shatt al-Arab waterway.
I don't think Iran is trying to take any territory.
Iran does not have a history of waging wars against it's neighbors, only defending itself when attacked.

en.wikipedia.org...
Under Saddam Hussein Baathist Iraq claimed the 200-kilometer navigable channel up to the Iranian shore as its territory. But in 1975, Iraq signed the Algiers Accord in which it recognized the line running down the middle of the waterway, as the official border. However, in 1980 Iraq invaded Iran, thus breaking its part of the bargain. The main thrust of the military movement on the ground was across the Shatt al-Arab. Later, and as the Persian Gulf War was looming, Saddam again recognized the Algiers Accord in order to appease Iranians before he could undertake an invasion of Kuwait.

Iran does not dispute over borders Ace?....

The chapter discusses the current dispute between the United Arab Emirates and Iran over the three islands of Greater and Lesser Tunb and Abu Musa from a historical- legal dimension. The author deals with different axes indicating the historical dimension of the dispute which supports the UAE`s title to the three islands and refutes Iranian claims.

The author illustrates a historical background about the conflict to present UAE�s sovereignty over the three islands against the Iranian claims. The author indicates that Iran�s claim to the three islands is based on three major arguments. The first argument is in terms of international law the evidences support its claim of title to the islands. The second is that British maps refer to the islands as being under the sovereignty of Iran. The third is that Iran�s strategic interests dictate possession of the three islands, so that Iran may be able to safeguard its security in the Gulf.

The author rejects all three arguments and refutes them on historical and legal grounds and gives the following arguments in favor of the UAE:

Excerpted from.
www.eldis.org...

AZERBAIJAN, IRAN DISAGREE OVER SEA BORDER


BAKU. July 24 (Interfax) - A dispute over sea borders continues between Azerbaijan and Iran.
The Azerbaijani government officially announced on television in the
early hours of July 24 that at about 8:00 p.m. local time on Monday, a border
incident occurred in the southern part of the Caspian Sea between an
Azerbaijani research vessel, the Geofizik-3, and an Iranian patrol boat.
The Iranian patrol boat approached the Geofizik-3 when the latter was
engaged in geo-physical research in the area of contract oil fields Araz,
Alov and Share in the Azerbaijani sector of the sea. The Iranian craft
demanded that the Geofizik-3 leave the zone and stay at least eight
kilometers north of it.

Excerpted from.
www.eurasianet.org...

Iran Expects Solution to Maritime Border Dispute with Kuwait
A senior Iranian official expressed hope here Monday that a satisfactory solution would be reached between Iran and Kuwait over the demarcation of their maritime border in northern Gulf.

Speaking to reporters before concluding his five-day visit to Kuwait, Iran's Vice President Mohammad Ali Sadooqi said the issue was being studied by special technical committees of the two countries.

Excerpted from.
english.people.com.cn...

Iran's Claim Over Caspian Sea Resources Threaten Energy Security
by Dr. Ariel Cohen

The need for Washington to focus its attention on energy security and diversification became clear as the war on terrorism began. The U.S. should strongly oppose Iran's threatening military actions to claim a larger portion of the energy-rich Caspian Sea. The Caspian basin, a land-locked body of salt water bordered by Iran, Azerbaijan, Russia, Kazakhstan, and Turkmenistan,....
Last year, Iran--a known sponsor of terrorism--began an aggressive campaign to claim a greater portion of the Caspian Sea and its resources. Its leaders have asserted that Iran has territorial and treaty rights to as much as 20 percent of the Caspian Sea surface area and seabed, significantly more than its long-recognized sector comprising about 12 to 14 percent.3 (See Map 1.) Tehran's use of air and naval forces to threaten a U.S.-British company exploring a field in Azerbaijan's sector jeopardizes, in addition to energy production and energy security, Western investments and the economic development of the post-Soviet states in that region.

Excerpted from.
www.heritage.org...

Need more links to the border "disputes, threats, war" that Iran has made in the past?


[edit on 4-1-2005 by Muaddib]

Iran does not dispute over borders Ace?....

The chapter discusses the current dispute between the United Arab Emirates and Iran over the three islands of Greater and Lesser Tunb and Abu Musa from a historical- legal dimension. The author deals with different axes indicating the historical dimension of the dispute which supports the UAE`s title to the three islands and refutes Iranian claims.

The author illustrates a historical background about the conflict to present UAE�s sovereignty over the three islands against the Iranian claims. The author indicates that Iran�s claim to the three islands is based on three major arguments. The first argument is in terms of international law the evidences support its claim of title to the islands. The second is that British maps refer to the islands as being under the sovereignty of Iran. The third is that Iran�s strategic interests dictate possession of the three islands, so that Iran may be able to safeguard its security in the Gulf.

The author rejects all three arguments and refutes them on historical and legal grounds and gives the following arguments in favor of the UAE:

Excerpted from.
www.eldis.org...

AZERBAIJAN, IRAN DISAGREE OVER SEA BORDER


BAKU. July 24 (Interfax) - A dispute over sea borders continues between Azerbaijan and Iran.
The Azerbaijani government officially announced on television in the
early hours of July 24 that at about 8:00 p.m. local time on Monday, a border
incident occurred in the southern part of the Caspian Sea between an
Azerbaijani research vessel, the Geofizik-3, and an Iranian patrol boat.
The Iranian patrol boat approached the Geofizik-3 when the latter was
engaged in geo-physical research in the area of contract oil fields Araz,
Alov and Share in the Azerbaijani sector of the sea. The Iranian craft
demanded that the Geofizik-3 leave the zone and stay at least eight
kilometers north of it.

Excerpted from.
www.eurasianet.org...

Iran Expects Solution to Maritime Border Dispute with Kuwait
A senior Iranian official expressed hope here Monday that a satisfactory solution would be reached between Iran and Kuwait over the demarcation of their maritime border in northern Gulf.

Speaking to reporters before concluding his five-day visit to Kuwait, Iran's Vice President Mohammad Ali Sadooqi said the issue was being studied by special technical committees of the two countries.

Excerpted from.
english.people.com.cn...

Iran's Claim Over Caspian Sea Resources Threaten Energy Security
by Dr. Ariel Cohen

The need for Washington to focus its attention on energy security and diversification became clear as the war on terrorism began. The U.S. should strongly oppose Iran's threatening military actions to claim a larger portion of the energy-rich Caspian Sea. The Caspian basin, a land-locked body of salt water bordered by Iran, Azerbaijan, Russia, Kazakhstan, and Turkmenistan,....
Last year, Iran--a known sponsor of terrorism--began an aggressive campaign to claim a greater portion of the Caspian Sea and its resources. Its leaders have asserted that Iran has territorial and treaty rights to as much as 20 percent of the Caspian Sea surface area and seabed, significantly more than its long-recognized sector comprising about 12 to 14 percent.3 (See Map 1.) Tehran's use of air and naval forces to threaten a U.S.-British company exploring a field in Azerbaijan's sector jeopardizes, in addition to energy production and energy security, Western investments and the economic development of the post-Soviet states in that region.

Excerpted from.
www.heritage.org...

Need more links to the border "disputes, threats, war" that Iran has made in the past?




BTW, i could very well be wrong, but it's a very high possibility.

---edited to add comment---

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Muaddib]

---edited for double post---

---Wow, I just noticed now, it wasn't a double post, but triple... I apologize for that, don't know what happened there-----

I would like to add that Iranians have already reverse-engineered may parts of the F-14, even adapting/upgrading it to use Russian equipment.

Not sure about the AIM-54 Long Range Air to Air missile which is probably the F-14's deadliest weapon. While it doesn't match USAF's more modern missiles in terms of accuracy, it out-ranges all missiles in USAF's current inventory by far and had high chances of shooting down a target even without directly impacting the target - close detonation due to its large warhead.

Imagine if USAF had to face combat-ready F-14's armed with AIM-54, it's going to be very difficult for them, they may have to heavily rely on stealth technology and their latest fighting equipment, not just a bunch of F-16s and F-18s