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The Rapture: Fact Or Fiction?

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posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:47 PM
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There are different doctrinal views taught about the the Rapture among the many denominations of Christendom. The most popular teaching is that Christ will call all Christians to be caught away with him in the air and taken to heaven. At the same time believers who have died will be raised from the dead to heaven as well. In the twinkling of the eye both groups when the Rapture takes place will receive immortal bodies and will reign with Christ.

The Rapture doctrine teaches that no believers will go through the Tribulation, only non-believers will. All those who have rejected Christ will be left behind upon the earth and God will execute judgement upon them. Many have also been taught that this event will lead to the Great Tribulation.

According to this event:
1. What is the doctrinal definition of the Rapture?
2. Who goes to heaven according to this doctrine?
3. Who are those left on earth & what happens to them?
4. Who do those raptured to heaven with Christ rule over?
5. How according to doctrine is the Rapture related to the Tribulation?

What are the facts?




posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:48 PM
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both



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: Transparent

There is pre-trib mid-trib post-trib but there is another timing that makes better sense imo and it's the pre-wrath rapture ...



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: Transparent
Where you're going to see the biggest divide on this topic is between the anti-paulians, and the words of Christ only crowd. The rapture doctrine is almost solely built from the epistles, with a few quotes from Jesus thrown in that seem to fit.


edit on 10/19/2015 by Klassified because: missed a word.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: Transparent

I believe the OT is where we find the answer. When YWHW redeemed the slaves from Egypt he created a hierarchy in Isreal with the Levites as the temple class, Isreal as the congregation, and Egypt representing Babylon.

One clan, the Levites represent the 144,000 who are the first fruits of the tribulation.



The 144,000

3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.


The 144,000 are the temple class that will emerge at the end of our current times, the new Levites. These will be spiritual leaders who will be marked by their obvious love for humanity.

The second group represents the rest of Isreal, the congregation. The congregation will be those who follow the temple class. The congregation will repent for selfishness and their hearts will be turned towards love for humanity. Repentance and a renewed heart will be the mark on the congregation.



The Great Multitude in White Robes

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”...

13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."


The end of the tribulation will be the final call to repentance.



Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;


Those who are part of Babylon and those who refuse to repent will share in the seven final bowls of God's wrath.

Willful disobedience and oppression are the marks of the Babylonians.



16 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”


The 144,000 and congregation are freed from bondage to the Babylonian system. This is the time where Christ is reunited with the Church. Mankind will agree to follow the Holy Spirit, the head of the righteous church obedient to God.

This is the birth of a new age. A time of global peace, the tribulation is now. The temple class is becoming aware and the congregation can since that the end of the current age is near.

Caught up in heaven is a metaphor for being caught up in the Love of God.


edit on 19-10-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 01:49 PM
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The administrative duties, alone, are pretty hefty for any decently run rapture... here's hoping the heavenly hosts have some decent bureaucrats.

As far as the OP, I would vote "fiction" but part of me wants it to be fact... in the plain, unimaginative, non-metaphor manner of folks flying into the air some bright morning and being sucked up by a heavenly vacuum cleaner... that would make quite the show... alas.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73
I think you have one small problem there. The 144,000 are made up of 12,000 from each tribe, equaling 144,000.
Rev. 7
3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

I'm also curious as to how what you posted fits into the rapture.
edit on 10/19/2015 by Klassified because: eta



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Transparent

There is pre-trib mid-trib post-trib but there is another timing that makes better sense imo and it's the pre-wrath rapture ...

Something to ponder...

It may come as a surprise but the doctrine of the Rapture is not mentioned in any Christian writings, of which we have knowledge, until after the year 1830 C.E. Whether the early writers were Greek or Latin, Armenian or Coptic, Syrian or Ethiopian, English or German, orthodox or heretic, no one mentioned it before 1830 (though a sentence in Pseudo-Dionysius in about 500 C.E. could be so interpreted). Of course, those who feel the origin of the teaching is in the Bible would say that it ceased being taught for some unknown reason at the close of the apostolic age only to reappear in 1830. But if the doctrine were so clearly stated in Scripture, it seems incredible that no one should have referred to it before the 19th century.

Full article here



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73




When YWHW redeemed the slaves from Egypt he created a hierarchy in Isreal with the Levites as the temple class, Isreal as the congregation, and Egypt representing Babylon.


Egypt representing Babylon?

Babylon invaded Egypt twice between 601 and 569 BC, and were beaten back. Egypt represent Egypt and Babylon represents Babylon, biblically speaking.


Matthew 2:15
And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: Transparent

There are lots of differing views on the Rapture beyond simply does it or does it not exist/will it occur.

IMO, there are sound arguments for each position, so I really don't have a firm, locked in belief on it one way or the other. It sure is a much nicer thought that God will lift the truly faithful out of the way before He really gets down to business, but if He doesn't plan for that happen, then He will take care of us either way.

IMO, the wise believer hopes and watches but is prepared to go the distance if that is what He calls us to do.

After all, while it makes sense that some could be called away, it is also clear that some will be here and some will be persecuted for their faith. This makes sense only if some believers do not go before the Tribulation. That leaves open either the pre-Wrath or the idea that some Christians who are more lukewarm or do not overcome the challenges to the churches are left behind and find faith after the Rapture should it happen. These will be the ones persecuted and martyred who must endure to the end.

But I don't know, and God isn't exactly telling me aside from some dreams here and there that are not as specific as the ones the YouTube prophets will put up.


edit on 19-10-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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The rapture already happened 2008. I saw this page on ATS saying 144,000 members. They recreated the conditions of Revelation to the dot. The government, and a lot of things just feel into place. William Cooper author of "Behold a Pale Horse" said in 1991 that this is a very old idea. He talked about the Freemasons , the Illuminati and the New World Order. They thought if they arranged the conditions of Revelation he would come back and they would be saved. This was a very old idea created by the Freemasons an old fraternity of skilled craftsmen , the Illuminati a group that challenged the Catholic Church with science and they created a New World Order. The world pulled beneath your eyes to hide you from the truth. I was the inside guy , the pharaoh they built this pyramid to , to see if anything was watching.....I mean God.

Songs , movies and pop culture written with subliminals to the Beast with a head injury. Who just so happened to go through high school and then got set up for a gun scare. After Columbine music followed around shooters and now they had a biblical character. When destiny comes a knocking.... You just sort of go with it. This wasn't supposed to happen but free will was introduced in this experiment so they got Y2K is going to crash the computers and did. He didn't come back, but a child was used for this not the epitamy of all evil . A child was stabbed in a coma and had a massive head injury. Then herded into institutions and forced powerful mind altering drugs to slow you down. I know this because I was that child.

All on this site had the chance to ascend into heaven. You just had to see it. It was a metaphorical thing. Life on earth is heaven. He didn't come back to kill me cause I was a child in chains used as a figurehead by those in power to "trick " God into fulfilling prophecy. I don't take a day for granted. I have 2 eyes , 2 legs that work I used to be in a wheelchair. Everyday overjoyed to play video games and still be here. I got a ticket to Heaven good for another 30 years if I watch my back. Don't take the little things for granted. Every once in a while when alone and deep in thought I step back and realize the majesty and awe of life. On this rock, the plants animals life, the mountains the rivers. All living in perfect equilibrium , the trees recycling carbon dioxide into oxygen . Nature and the survival of the fittest , everything working in harmony. Rain to water the plants. Everyday I live my life to the fullest and on a scale of 1-10 I am 15 . I don't get depressed anymore. Just consider...we are already here. How do you see Heaven? A 3D environment you can walk around in and do anything you want? In the clouds . Freedom. What if this is all we get.... I have faith but also almost died and am afraid of it. Something to think about next 30 years.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: Transparent

Rapture means violent/sudden snatching away.

Those who believe that Jesus died for our sins go in the Rapture. It will be the closing of the Church Age.

Those left on earth will experience tribulation. This is to separate the remaining people into two classes: believers and non-believers. Tribulation makes or breaks faith.

The matured class of the Church will be returning with Christ 7 years after the Rapture to rule over the surviving believers of the Tribulation who will be entering the Millennial Age without resurrection.

The Rapture is the barrier between the Church Age and the 70th Week. The Church is a bridge between the 69th and 70th Week.

These are taught as facts in the Bible if you know how to read it correctly (preferably in Hebrew and Greek).



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: Klassified

Here you go .....

Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them.

In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just.
On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote:
“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;”(1) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”
Irenaeus in this passage describes the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. Note his use of the term “caught up” which is Rapture terminology as that is the meaning of harpazo, the term for “caught up” in the King James Bible describing the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4. He then quotes Matthew 24:21 where The Lord Jesus Christ says: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” And it is during this time that those who convert to Christianity during the final years will receive the incorruptible crown mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:25. In Irenaeus’ belief, the Rapture took place prior to the end times Great Tribulation.
beginningandend.com...



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

He's not alone. There are other writings that make passing reference, but it's not a common idea or one that was widespread.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Isurrender73
I think you have one small problem there. The 144,000 are made up of 12,000 from each tribe, equaling 144,000.
Rev. 7
3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

I'm also curious as to how what you posted fits into the rapture.


Thank you for bringing reason to this thread.The fact is none of these beliefs of religious rhetoric fit into the rapture because none of them are true they only doctrines of men made into perverse fantasy.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Yes there were others that mention it but not using the word rapture . Rapture is a english word from a latin word from the Greek text . There are a lot of subjects not written about in the early church that you only find in recent times .I am thinking of Micheal Heiser's Divine Council for one but there are others . .



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1
But don't most scholars connect Irenaeus statement with Revelation 19, "after", and not before the beast has risen to power? My point being, it is debatable as to whether he was referring to pre or post. Meh, it's a hotly debated topic. Which is why I said what I did in my first post. In the last few hundred years at least, Christians have never come to an agreement on the rapture. Good post. Starred.


edit on 10/19/2015 by Klassified because: corrected erroneus statement



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 03:41 PM
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a reply to: Klassified

Before finding the pre-wrath / day of the Lord .difference I swung between all 3 trib rapture thoughts . If people would take a look at the pre-wrath there would or should be less doubts as to which better fits . The 3 tribs all have their issues but the pre-wrath does not . It actually answers to the difference and puts it in a more coherent place .



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Isurrender73
I think you have one small problem there. The 144,000 are made up of 12,000 from each tribe, equaling 144,000.
Rev. 7
3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

I'm also curious as to how what you posted fits into the rapture.


Thank you for bringing reason to this thread.The fact is none of these beliefs of religious rhetoric fit into the rapture because none of them are true they only doctrines of men made into perverse fantasy.


Amen brother! Why even worry about these things if you've been promised life everlasting.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: Klassified

Considering the Dark Ages, the rise of Catholicism the rise of Islam and the stranglehold those factors put on ancient texts, ancient religions and Christianity in particular, it's going to be difficult to really get an accurate picture of everything that was going on in the pre-Medieval, pre-Golden Age Christian religion.



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