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2015 DNA test of dust on Shroud: what this reveals in favor or against its authenticity?

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posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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The Peace of God to all that belong to the light,
Dear Readers,

New DNA tests practised over particles of Polen that are taken by vacuuming some areas of the Shroud of Turin, one of the most interesting, intriguing and controversial Historic objects ever existed, are revealing new aspects of its already mysterious History.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Based on these new results it is clear that the Shroud has something to do in its past with lands never before connected with the History of the relic. Although the amount of particles carrying foreign dna material is severlal times smaller than the corresponding ones to eastern mediterranean an and middle east, that were found since the 1980 testing, anyway they represent something absolutely unexpected.

The new analysis carried out by an interdisciplinary team of Università di Padova, di Padia and Perugia, shows dna from areas of Equatorial Africa, the Indian Subcontinent, Far East and even the Americas.

www.nature.com...

According with these new results the Shroud apparently coudlnt be brought directly from Constantinople to France as many have claimed along years, supposedly brought by the templairs.

www.realclearscience.com...

Instead of that it seems more believable that the Shroud might have very different History:

www.nature.com...


The Hypotheses that can explain this new findings are not yet completely explored but here are at least some probably valid explanations:

1) The shroud was taken by the Apostles of Christ, then in some way Thomas, the skeptical apostle that was in doubt of the resurrection of Jesus for a while if you recall the gospel, took it, something that could happened at some point of the collapse of the Jewish nation under the seige or Rome either in 67 or 70 AD. He then traveled to India, or current Pakistan, where we know by sure he was in evangelical mission and possibly left it as a legacy to the primitive Christian Church in that part of Asia.

2) During any of the wars that were part of the the gradual retreat of the Bizantine Empire under the expansion of Islam to the west might be sent possibly to Pakistan or India, then possibly kept there for some time by the Christian Communities founded the Apostol Thomas. The presence of the Shroud in that region could even been the origin of the legends of the supposed life of Christ in Kachmyr that backup a sanctuary that still exist remembered him.

en.wikipedia.org...

3) How the Shroud could come back again to Europe? well, it could be sent or brought back to Europe perhaps in an European Galeon coming from that part of the world. In this case the most likely nationality perhaps was Portuguese, since they were the first Europeans to have colonies on that part of the world and also were Catholics.

4) Nevertheless, an eventual cargo ship carrying the Shroud probable arrived to India in its route toward Europe as part of a longer trip around the world that perhaps included the American Hemisphere. This intinerary was followed by Portuguese ships since the time of Sebastian of Magallanes, first traveler to go around earth completely.

5) an Alternative way to explain the presence of polen from India, far east, Africa or the Americas in segments of the Shroud perhaps can be explained by the repairs carried out by nuns in the relic with cottom fibers that were imported to Europe in XV or XVI century from America but must likely using indirect navy routes that were comming through the far east and India to Europe.

6) Another alternative explanation of the so diverse plant polen found in the shroud could be the fact that copies of it were painted along centuries and a lot of them were touched with the original to acquire supposed Holy blessing and power. Many of those copies could be made on canvasses manufactored with materials imported to Europe from the most farthest parts of the world.

7) Hebrew people used to embalm corpses for ritual burial with species that were probably imported to Palestine from far countries, even in Times of Christ, a combination of plants that help to preserve the body from putrefaction, mixed with Myrrh or Frankincensee. We know by sure that the Myrrh used in the Holy land at that time was imported from areas of East Africa(Ethyopia, Somalia, etc) , and the Frankincense from India or Pakistan. So the presence of this polen could instead to deny the authenticity of the shroud to give more support to it, depending of how old that polen could be.

8) Along many years different Historians have speculated on the possibility that the American Hemisphere was actually known by diverse peoples of the old continent several centuries beforer Christopher Columbus. The presence of american Tobacco and Coca Leaves in Egyptian mummies have been explained by possible merchant routes that ancient Egyptians, Phoenicians or Cartaginenses had from the Americas. Again depending of how old can be dated the American polen could even support the authenticity of the Shroud, since plants of the Americas could be present in the embalming mixture used in Palestine in Times of Christ too.

www.faculty.ucr.edu...

en.wikipedia.org...

Ancient Egyptians used American plants to embal Pharaos

The thread is of course open to the free discusion on this amazing topic, as always bounded by the rules of decorum and mutual respect in the written communication that must prevail in the forum.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 10/19/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

Already posted here



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

Jesus painted white 15th century, fits amazingly with a purpose of European dominance.. Its just theories, maybe Jesus was from a Indian heritage, there were quite a few of them in Jerusalem at that time..

Just theories, maybe the same Indians came from a culture which praised the Virgin Mary? Just theories, though..

My fantasy ya know..



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: FamCore

Dear FamCore

The original analysis by the Italian scientists might be also posted in that other thread, but not any of the posible Hypotheses that we have here for discussion to explain it.

These different choices are only formulated in this thread and they represent an interesting original effort to try to find solution to the conundrum that these results have created to Historians and other experts interested in the Shroud.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 10/19/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 01:37 PM
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Why so much idolatry over the shroud, is difficult to understand, when Jesus himself was opposed to all forms of idolatry.
a reply to: The angel of light



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: Nochzwei

Excuse me but it is clear that you are confussing two different aspects here :

First, Idolatry is to believe that something material made by men is divine, something that it is very doubtful is occurring here because no body ever have claimed the Shroud is God itself, whoever become interested on it from the religious point of view or even from the Historical one is because it could represent material evidence of Jesus of Nazareth.

and

Second, there exist veneration to relics, That is something that belong to the uses and traditions of any civilzed people of the world, everybody that has culture and respect for History or the past use to respect places or things that remembered the ancestors or great leaders or inspirational figures , as well as it is not idolatry to keep pictures of the parents, husband or wife or grand parents after they have died.

It is in some way ridiculous to talk about idolatry with respect to this object, since anyway since Biblical times the Israelits for instance carried the tables of the Law in the Convenant Ark, as well as the rod of Moses or the Tunic of Joseph, and that can't be considered idolatry in sane judgment, to claim such a thing is more a heretic idea.

Now, Jesus Christ itself described him as the second bronze snake on the rod remembering the one God Commanded to Moses to make and put as a divine symbol of protection for the Hebrews from the biting of those animals in their trip along the Sinai Dessert.


John 3:14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
15 that whoever believes in Him may have eternal life.


The Bronze Serpent used by Moses in Sinai

Finaly, this last results on new tests on the shroud confirm what we have already known, that this relic is neither Catholic nor European. For about 3 centuries at least the Orthodox Christianity has claimed the Shroud was stolen by the crusades from Constantinople before even muslims were close to that city.

This new analysis also shows that the Shroud couldn't be manufactured in middle ages in western Europe, and of course it is an insult to the name of Leonardo Da Vinci any attempt to link him with any forgery to promote idolatry or anything similar concerning it, a myth that only exist in conspiratory novels of science fiction written in the XX century.

Interestingly, there are traditions that other Apostle of Christ, Jude Taddeus, who is traditionally depicted carrying the image of Jesus in his hand or close to his chest, betokening the legend of the Image of Edessa, that could be the Shroud itself folded , traveled with it to a region today located in the borders of Iran, Armenia and Turkey.

The same legends locate the tomb of this apostle, who was relative by blood of Christ, either in Kazakhstan or in the Pamir region between Tadzhikistan and Afghanistan and Pakistan, just few miles distant of Kashmyr.

blackswantheology.wordpress.com...

theintercessionofthesaints.weebly.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 10/19/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

Personally, it appears to me from the article that it might well have been contaminated by the hands of pilgrims and atmospheres of the markets near where it would have been displayed. I am pretty sure that the Shroud was rescued out of Jerusalem, taken to Ephesus and after the Annunciation, either went to Damascus or Phillipi. Then it was taken to Constantinople.

Just my speculations.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: TonyS

Well, we have information that suggest it was in Edessa, Turkey at some point, however there is also legend that says that during the visitation of the Apostle Jude Taddeus carrying the original one the king Abgar V ordered to an artist to make an exact copy to be kept in that city.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Armenian Tradition suggest St Jude went from that region to spread the gospel to Iran and in that point of the story there are two versions, one is that he came back to Syria where he suffered Martyrdom, and the other is that he continued teaching the gospel to Central Asia, eventually to Kazakhstan and Kyrgystan, until he died somewhere in the Pamir Mountains, that as I already mentioned are located just few miles to the north west of Kashmyr.

en.wikipedia.org...

In Kashmyr there is a tradition of centuries that claim that Jesus of Nazareth, or at least somebody very look like him, perhaps his half brother or cousin Jude Thaddeus, brought Christianity to that region.

Who is the Patriarch Buried in North India?

Jesus or St Jude Tomb in Kashmyr?

Possibly along the following 10 centuries the relic traveled back in some way to the sphere of the Bizantine Empire, if we believe that the Edessa Image and the Holy Mandylion that was in Constantinople were not the copy but the original, or possibly was brought back to western Europe directly by Portuguese navigators from India if we assume the contrary?.

In 1487 Bartolomeu Dias , a Portuguese explorer reched capetown in South Africa. Vasco de Gama, almirant of Portugal surrounded Africa toward India in 1497 making stops in Mozambique and Kenya. The problem with the Portuguese Hypothesis is that there are reliable records and even coins of an exhibition of this Shroud in France since the XIII century.

Thanks for your comment on the thread,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 10/19/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

I'll have to check those links. Interesting stuff although......Kazakhstan?

You know something that occurred to me......but I haven't checked it. I suppose there's no record of it going to Alexandria? If it had, I'd suppose that it would have been mentioned in the Coptic records. It also occurred to me that maybe it made its way to Spain via James?????

Just thoughts.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: TonyS

Yes Kazakhstan, and also Kyrgystan, even another tradition says that St Jude the Apostle actually died on that last country at the shores of the Issyk-Kul Lake

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

Then it was another different person named Thaddeus , probably also called Addai, one of the 72 disciples of Jesus that was the companion of the Apostle in such trip who continued along the route that goes toward Pamir mountains and eventually crossed into the Kashmyr plato if we believe in the traditions of North Pakistan.

en.wikipedia.org...

Therefore, Jude and Thaddeus might not be one person but actually two figures that were related each one to the other.

Even there can be another stronger candidate than the Portuguese explorers to have been who brought the Shroud to Europe, exactly by the epoch it appeared first time in western Europe, if we accept that it was at some point in Kashmyr, is nobody else than Marco Polo.

Marco Polo surrounded the Indian subcontinent in ship and stopped in the coast of Pakistan to then travel through land accross Iran and Turkey in his trip back to Europe from China , as well as, He had traveled across Afghanistan, Kyrgyztan and Pamir at least once in his trip to China from Venice.

The hypothesis of Marco Polo also would explain the presence of far east polen on the shroud that these new tests claim it has.

The Venecian explorer was by sure a very devote Roman Catholic with the necessary culture and ability in foreign Asian languages to have known about this relic and what it might represented for the Christian Civilization.

blog.europeana.eu...

No there are no records of the Shroud to have been never in the past in Spain, although to that country was brought the Holy Sudarium of Oviedo, that according with the tradition was the piece of cloth used to cover the head of Jesus when it was descended from the cross.

Nevethelss it is difficult to prove that the sudarium arrived to Spain since times of St James, the Apostle. Well documented historical records from the Church archives suggest that it was probably brought to the harbor of Cartagena at some point of he VIl century, between the fall of the Western Roman Empire under the Barbarians, the Seige of the Muslim Persians over the Holyland and before the Iberian Peninsual was annexed by the moors of Morroco.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.shroud.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 10/19/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: Hyperia

Dear Hyperia,

Well, due to lack of more information right now I can't sustain the hypothesis that Christ was Living at some point of his life in India, but I can say that a very well grounded alternative explanation of what appears to be a possible Indian origin of the Shroud is the possibility that this relatively large piece of linen was manufactured in India, before to be used to tie Christ body.

I am adding this Hypothesis to the ones we already were discussing here, since anyway there is the possibility that the Shroud was made in India but still be the trully burial cloth of a Christ killed in Palestine by the 1st century AD, and we don't need to deal with the discussion if it was The Apostle St. Jude or the disciple Thaddeus or Adai who is buried in Kashmir.

This wouldn't represent necessarily a contradition with what the gospels say to us, so we can arrive to the following conclusions:

1) This is easy to understand since although its origin could be somewhere in the Indian subcontinent it perfectly may be sold in a market of Jerusalem around the year 29 to 33 AD and then be bought by Joseph of Arimatea, who we know was the person that provided it for the burial of Jesus.

There is enough historic evidence that Palestine at times of Christ was a land where a lot of trading routes from near and middle east converged into Egypt or coming from Africa toward the mediterranean and Europe, this even thousands of years before Christ times.

So the Shroud itself perfectly could be a linen fabric weaved abroad before to be used as the Burial Cloth of Jesus Christ.

2) What the new findings are revealing right now, without need of ulterior analysis, is that this couldn't be a relic manufactured in Europe, so they automatically reject the hypothesis of any possible forgery around it in medieval times.

This is definitively pretty interesting since practically bury all the so bold, sensasionalist and let me say irreponsible pseudoconspiracy theories we have listened along the last 35 years by the traditional enemies of the Roman Catholic Church trying to "expose" this object as something made in Europe by the Church of somebody working for it.

3) Another so important consequence of this 2015 tests is that if the shroud is Indian or Pakistanian according with the Polen found on it there is no way at all that the great Leonardo Da Vinci was his manufacturer, according with crazy conspiratory theories that abusevely have tried to accuse him of a supposed forgery.

4) Another so important observation is that the presence of American polen on the shroud can be explained by the reweaving of the cloth performed by nuns in medieval times using cotton fibers that necesarily must be imported from the New world only after Christopher Columbus trips.

So, the most important situation that these findings are confirming is that the shroud of today is indeed a compose of an original object of linen that was repaired or reinforced with cotton that necesarily was at least 15 centuries younger, since that is the difference of time with respect to the discovery of the Americas, what would explain perfectly why the C14 tests failed dramatically to date it back to the 1st century, even being authentic.

5) Moreover, these extraordinary new findings not only show the composite nature of the Shroud are also saying to us how to date it correctly, it is enough to separate the fibers by its origin and then discharge the correspondings ones that belong to the materials imported from the Americas to repair it, and this will let us arrive to the correct age of the original cloth.

If a new dating procedure even with C14 arrive the conclusion that the fibers containing polen from India and middle east are 20 centuries old, but the ones containing Polen of America are just XV century that should be a conclusive test of how old actually is the relic, that for the unique characteristics it has only can be the Burial Cloth of the Historic Joshua Bar Joseph, Jesus Christ.


Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 10/20/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2015 @ 05:46 AM
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The DNA contaminating the Shroud of Turin and whatever pollen has been extracted from it are irrelevant to the issue of authenticity of this cloth as the burial shroud of Jesus. What is more a propos are certain scientific facts that collectively indicate it to be a forgery. One is that the image is a photographic negative. A second is that the image of the head is too small, compared with the size of the torso. A third is that over ten years ago an Italian physicist found a fainter image on the back of the cloth (a trial run by the forger). A fourth is that, if facial features through perspiration and body odour from a corpse had created the dark areas as stains, the face on the unfurled sheet would be distorted in scale due to the projection of a curved surface onto a flat plane, whereas it is natural, which is possible only if the image was projected optically onto the cloth when it was laid out flat. So, unless someone took off the shroud when Yeshua ben Miriam was buried, spread it out neatly on the ground and then laid his body down on it, face down for some reason (a highly improbable scenario because it would have been against the Jewish custom!), there is no way that a undistorted image of a body could have been created naturally on a cloth that was tightly wrapped around the body. Even if the head itself had not been wrapped in the shroud but had been laid face down against its open end flattened out on the tomb floor, some distortion would have resulted in the image impressed onto the cloth because of compression of the flesh in the face due to contact with the floor, whilst other features would be absent because not all areas of the face would be touching the cloth. Again, it was not the Jewish custom to lay bodies to rest in a tomb lying face down, so this scenario is highly unlikely.
These and many other problems strongly suggest forgery. The argument against this that a forger could not have used a linen sheet that purportedly came from India or Pakistan is plain ridiculous, even assuming this claim is true. The cloth could have come from ANY country and have been made at any time - even during biblical times - and still be used by a forger. It did not have to come from Italy or even Jerusalem. Nor did it have to be woven at the time of the forgery. Such assumptions merely beg the question and prove nothing.



posted on Oct, 21 2015 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: micpsi

Well,

Of course who wants to continue creating fiction novels of supposed forgeries must change dramatically the scripts that they have followed along years, because the absence of enough European polen over the Shroud represents a huge contradiction with all the exisiting look like Davinci Code "conspiracy" theories.

I think you are doing a tremendous effort to react rapidly to start to elaborate new conspiracy theories that can fit better under an entire different scheme that these results are giving to us.

Now, the possibility that the shadows of the body of the man of the Shroud are stains or anything done with painting techniques were discharged many years ago, even scientists that have worked with the most sophisticate electronic microscopes, and that actually had access to the relic, certified alltogether that they correspond to burnt of the external fibers of the material.

www.catholicworldreport.com...

shroudstory.wordpress.com...

www.shroud.com...

The discovery of the second siloutte of the Body and face in the reverse of the Shroud shows exactly the same characteristics, that by the way only a radiation source can reproduce in our time, what creates a real cunundurm for whoever wants to insist in forgery, because if it is out of time to talk about photography in the XII century, first documented exhibition of this shroud in western Europe, it is absolutely absurd and laughable to even suggest possibility of radiation technology by that same epoch.

The radiation on the two sides of the Shroud however can be easily explained if we accept that something supernatural happened with that body, something for instance as the resurrection described by the witnesses of the epoch, in each of the gospels. The existence of radiation is evident since even the bones of the body, not just only the soft tissues, are visible on the image that exist on the shroud.

All your other comments about impossibility to imprint on the material the kind of negative image we have seen are the result of your wrong assumption that this is the result of contact of the cloth with the body fluids, when it is something entirely diferent as I have already explained.

Pls read: www.shroud.com...

vaticaninsider.lastampa.it...

www.christianpost.com...


It come to my attention your deep knowlege of ritual burial hebrew costumes of the time, as well as ,that you refer to Jesus Christ as Joshua Bar Myriam, that was never his legal name, why??

As far as i know only the most fanatics among the most ultra sectarian Jewish anti Christian leaders use to call him in that way, because his legal name and the one under he lived was Joshua Bar Joseph, so who is in behind your reply?? that is something I leave to the readers of the thread to guess.


Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

edit on 10/21/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2015 @ 10:36 AM
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Wasn't this Shroud carbon dated to show it's age?



posted on Oct, 21 2015 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

As far as I can see the most we can say is that on 1980 three laboratories tried to date samples of what we know now by sure was a composite of an old object with other materials added to it along centuries from many diverse origins.

The material dated using C14 certainly contained material from a shroud that was allegadely originally a linen object coming from Jerusalem in the first century of our era, but that was laterly repaired or reinforced with cottom fibers , and perhaps other materials, that were probably added at different moments between the XV to early decades of the XX centuries.

The repairs knitted by nuns basically tried to hide or reduce at most the damages caused after at least two fires ( during the attack of the crusades to constantinople in the seige of March and April of 1204, as well as, in december 4th of 1532 in Sainte Chapelle, Chambéry where the relic lost two corners while being folded in square shape, burnt by melt silver of the reliquary that contained it, causing permanent rhombus form marks on its center.

Seige of Constantinople under the crusades

www.shroud.com...

It is also the same that has beeing exposed to normal air along all the centuries of its existence until just few years ago when scientists detected that the air was altered the properties of the material. In particular is the same cloth that was exposed to great amount of smog of third fire in Turin in the Cathedral of Turin, Italy.

I am wondering who with a minimum of scientfic objectivity may decide to date with C14 a sample of such a contaminated object expecting to get the age of the original cloth of linen? perhaps with the science and technology of 1980 it was understandable, but with the Level of knowledge we have right now of the composition of this cloth it is unacceptable.

if today we insist to accept the results of the 1980 C14 test, when there is no doubt at all that in this Shroud there is almost as much cottom right now added to the original linen we would be violating absolutely essential protocols of dating.

Nevertheless to suggest negligence or a plot from the laboratories is not fair, It is understandable that 35 years ago they were not following better quality control standards surely because who carried out the tests were not even aware of heterogeneity of the object, and of course this object is extremely singular in its History with respect of many others science has tried to date.


The dates produced by the attempt of dating of 1980 are only showing the average of the different ages of all the materials contained in the sample, and well if you date together material from the 1st century with material from the XIX or first decades of the XX century it is easy to conclude that all comes from the 10 century as a natural mean value of the ages of the two components.

Now, what it was definitively an error of the laboratories is the way they decided to remove from the data values that were showing disparity in their results. In order to arrive to such average at least two different dates produced from the sub sampling were eliminating by the laboratories as outliers since with them there was no way even to match their results.

The results that were rejected if were not underestimated should be for the professional eye clear signals that something wrong was occurring in the test.

The entire test of 1980 is unreliable, their dating is invalid, as many critical studies of scientists have denounced along years, they were able to predict with great precision using only Statistical analysis methods the outcome that these new tests of 2015 are producing. In this sense the Shroud is teaching us a great lesson of how Statistics can help to decipher extremely complicate problems of science.

The most we can say of 1980 C14 dating attempt is that it contains a pretty suspicious behavior that represented a red flag of the composite nature of the object, that was easy to suspect from the unusual heterogeneity of the variance analysis of the data produced by the laboratories.

www.innoval.com...

shroudstory.wordpress.com...

www.shroud.com...

www.acheiropoietos.info...


Today we know , beyond any reasonable doubt from these results of 2015, that the only way to determine what is there and how old is, it is by separating the different kind of fibers that are composing it and that correspond to distinct epochs and apply a test for each one separately.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 10/21/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2015 @ 09:31 PM
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But if samples were taken that were part of the image, the whole mixed cotton and linen 'repairs' would not enter in to this, would they? How could part of the latent image be repaired? The problem seems more like access to that material.
edit on 21-10-2015 by charlyv because: spelling , where caught



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: charlyv

Dear Charlyv,

The sample for the C14 testing of the shroud in September-October of 1988 was taken from one of the corners of the cloth, so it was really far from the area that contains the image.

The criteria used was to try to damage the less the relic, since it was a destructive test. We are expecting the moment in which the science and technology develop a new kind of non destructive test that can date the shroud without being forced to burn part of it.

To propose to destroy part of the image is unthinkable since no body would accept to do such a thing with an object that has so high probability to be the most important historic evidence ever existed. Don't forget that Jesus Christ is a fundamental figure that defines the western civilization, and even out its boundaries is considered a key historic figure.

The piece of cloth that was destroyed in the test by sure contained cottom, since all the strip from which it belongs have that material in its composition.

The point is that the entire cloth has cottom right now, since in the shroud there were carried out two different kind of maintenance weavings, one corrective of the areas damaged by the fires, and other preventive by reinforcing the entire burial cloth with cotton fibers in order to avoid any risk that it can be torn out by accident.

To understand the reason for this it is enough to see that if you repair a missing part of a cloth, like patching it, that is what it was one with the burnt parts in its center, and you don't reweave the original fabric the new material of the repair soon or later tear down the original one of its surroundings when the cloth fibers sufferes contraction and dilation due to the presence of different levels of humidity in the atmosphere. Remember that only now we have the technology to preserve this object in vacum, so along history was always in contact with air.


It is true that the presence of Cottom has created a termendous difficulty to do a correct dating but without it possibly we would not have anymore relic, since it is so old and the original linen fibers have resisted so many years handling and mechanical tension.

For centuries the shroud was exhibited folded in such a way only the face of Christ was visible and also hanged out in a kind of wooden frame, as it was when it was in Constantinople.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness


edit on 10/22/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: charlyv

The reweaving and reknitting of cloths is a procedure used to repair many ancient fabrics, used extensively in museums or other institutes of preservation.

Pls read:
www.withoutatrace.com...

shrouduniversity.com...

The repairs that the shroud has experienced along History are multiples, here a list of just three of the ones we have unquestionable records:

1508: reweaving of the shroud ordered by Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Savoy,with authorization of Emperor Charles V of Germany when a copy of the relic was also manufactured and touched to the original.

www.shroud.com...

www.shroud.com...

greatshroudofturinfaq.com...

1534: The Shroud was repaired by the Poor Claire Nuns who were skilled in making textile repairs. The holes from the fire were patched and the entire cloth was attached to a backing cloth for support. This repair now looms large as the carbon dating tests of 1988 are called into question as having dated a medieval reweave rather than the original cloth of the Shroud. This now is the most credible explanation as to what the labs dated and why they were wrong.

shroud2000.com...

1694 invisible rewaving carried out by Bl Sebastian Valfrè, actually part of two or three different episodes of stitch repair (both French and in-weaving).

shroudstory.com...

www.shroudofturinexhibition.com...


Now, there has been a new test to date the shroud practised in 2013 on residuals of the sample taken in the 1980 examination, that was carried out with new technology able to overcome the mixing of materials by researchers of the University of Padua, and it gives a probably antiquity of this relic in the time of Christ, the results are on the following link:

www.usatoday.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness


edit on 10/22/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 04:14 PM
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Unfortunately, I think the days of getting any valuable information via testing the shroud are over. It has been moved and handled so many times I wouldn't be surprised if they found crumbs from a pop tart on it somewhere.



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 04:27 PM
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I thought they had already proven it was from like the 1300-1500s?



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