DNA Analysis Reveals New Wrinkle in the History of the Shroud of Turin

In a new paper published in Scientific Reports, an online open access scientific journal from the publishers of Nature, Italian researchers detailed interesting results of the DNA analysis of pollen and other dust particles vacuumed from the Shroud of Turin.

Real Clear Science - Shroud of Turin DNA Comes from All over World

As shown, the shroud has been contaminated with DNA from plants that can be found all over the world. Similarly, their analysis of human DNA showed haplogroups from people originating in Europe, south Asia, eastern Africa, and the Middle East. So, what does this mean?

It's hard to say. According to legend, the shroud moved around quite a bit, from Jerusalem to Turkey to France and to its final resting place in Turin, Italy. The DNA evidence confirms that many different people, from many different places, got their hands on or near the shroud.

What still remains unclear is the shroud's origin. The DNA evidence is consistent with more than one explanation: (1) The shroud really did originate in Israel and traveled extensively before making its way to Italy, or (2) The shroud was created in medieval Europe, but worshipers (and plants) from all over the world that made their way to Europe contaminated it. The authors cannot rule out either explanation. (Intriguingly, the authors suggested that the DNA evidence linked to people from India hints that the shroud may have been weaved there.)

I don't know that these results bring much new to bear on the controversy over the dating and authenticity of the shroud but it's certainly picked up DNA from all over the place including DNA from plants, humans, animals and even a species of marine worm. The analysis was done on material collected between 1978 and 1988 from between the back of the shroud and the reinforcing backing cloth (the Holland Cloth). I skimmed through the paper (linked above) and here's the bit where the authors propose a possible Indian origin for the cloth:

One obvious possibility is that during the course of centuries, individuals of Indian ancestry came into contact with TS. Taking into account the rate of DNA degradation and PCR-biases toward undamaged DNA, the recent contamination scenario is extremely likely. However, one alternative and intriguing possibility is that the linen cloth was weaved in India, as supported perhaps by the original name of TS - Sindon - which appears to derive from Sindia or Sindien, a fabric coming from India.

a reply to: theantediluvian

This was an incredible study. It's so fascinating that the shroud (in some way or another) collected such a huge variety of DNA.

"If cloths could talk"


S & F

So let me get this straight.

The shroud was woven in India(Indian DNA on it).

Covered Jesus after he died.(Middle eastern DNA)

People all over the world(except for Australian Aborigines and Japanese) got their hands on it.

So you are telling me, Jesus supported the outsourcing of jobs to India?

DNA contamination is irrelevant. A REAL burial shroud would have left an imprint with facial features distorted by its wrapping. Instead, they are natural. I consider it a photographic negative created using a camera obscura and photosensitive chemicals, both of which were known to alchemists in the Middle Ages. The image on the back discovered by an Italian physicist over a decade ago was a trial run. Even if it were carbon-dated to about 30 CE, that would still be consistent with forgery using a linen sheet woven at that time and bought to Italy from Jerusalem or thereabouts by a Christian pilgrim centuries later.

originally posted by: micpsi
DNA contamination is irrelevant. A REAL burial shroud would have left an imprint with facial features distorted by its wrapping. Instead, they are natural. I consider it a photographic negative created using a camera obscura and photosensitive chemicals, both of which were known to alchemists in the Middle Ages. The image on the back discovered by an Italian physicist over a decade ago was a trial run. Even if it were carbon-dated to about 30 CE, that would still be consistent with forgery using a linen sheet woven at that time and bought to Italy from Jerusalem or thereabouts by a Christian pilgrim centuries later.

A camera obscura using photosensitive chemical would have been discovered instantly. The chemicals would have been easily detected on the cloth and would remain on the cloth as long as there is an image on it.

originally posted by: theantediluvian

However, one alternative and intriguing possibility is that the linen cloth was weaved in India, as supported perhaps by the original name of TS - Sindon - which appears to derive from Sindia or Sindien, a fabric coming from India.

the cloth came from India ? that's not such a reach.... wasn't the hastily acquired Tomb to house the body of Jesus (the self acclaimed Rabbi) provided by that Rich Man Joseph A....
who possibly also donated the shroud cloth he purchased from a caravan merchant who traveled the 'silk road of trade'


...so, in that story, the cloth was never washed but remained tucked away in some storage trunk, with all the pollens and other contaminants from the cloths origination in India and picking up other stuff from the other goods to be sold from other parts of the Silk Road Route
the cloth particles seem to match plants etc. from the trade routes and were 90% there on the shroud before the Church obtained it as a Relic and was used as a touring religious icon in France/Italy

Jesus was painted as white in the 15th century, he was darker on older pictures, like indian dark..

Im just spreading some info..

a reply to: theantediluvian

John 19:38-42New International Version (NIV)

The Burial of Jesus
38 Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away. 39 He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.[a] 40 Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. 41 At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42 Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

It should be covered in myrrh and aloes and be in strips.I doubt Jesus would have left behind an object to become venerated and worshiped.

a reply to: asen_y2k

The shroud was weaved in India(Indian DNA on it).

The logics went missing on that quote, try again

In all reality if there was a jesus, he likely looked more like bob marley than that hippy in a dashiki.

originally posted by: Hyperia
a reply to: asen_y2k

The shroud was weaved in India(Indian DNA on it).

The logics went missing on that quote, try again

Quoted from the news text.

a reply to: asen_y2k

One group was very gifted in chemistry, called alchemy at the time, the semite are a nomad people.. Just a theory, chemistry is modern 15th century.. facts

The idea that the shroud is a burial cloth of a person is eronious. It was either painted on or as been suggested some sort of "photographic" technique.There is one glaringly obvious mistake that no-one seems to want to address.
If it was a burial cloth then the only accepted position that the "corpse" was laid on the cloth is on its back and the cloth passed over his head, therefore giving a lengthwise back image and a lengthwise frontal image.
Now look at the shroud, yes the back image is there and the front image is there but there is a very significant portion missing which no-one can account for. Can you see it?
There is no image whatsoever of the top of the head, which there should have been if the cloth was wraped as has been described. back of the head image immediately touches the front head image. Where is the top of the head?

a reply to: theantediluvian

Hi, well these new results on DNA analysis of dust taken from the Shroud, if we assume this was done respecting all the protocols to avoid contamination, of course are opening a new chapter in the History of this relic.

In the Science and Technology forum of ATS there is already opened a thread that has started to explore the different possibly Hypotheses that might explain these new findings.

You are all more than welcome to check that thread and bring your opinion in favor or against the different possible explanations.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: theantediluvian

John 19:38-42New International Version (NIV)

The Burial of Jesus
38 Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away. 39 He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.[a] 40 Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. 41 At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42 Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

It should be covered in myrrh and aloes and be in strips.I doubt Jesus would have left behind an object to become venerated and worshiped.

Absolutely agree. This would have been the way of burial. Like the mummies (strips of linen - like what my avatar's head is wrapped in, hahaha!).

Also there is another account at the resurrection:

Luke 24:11; "Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened."

See, strips of linen every time, not a "fabricated" shroud (pardon the pun, lol). It is the same hoax as the spear and all the other icons, of which there seems to be about a million of each circulating, all saying they are "the one"; just like little fake messiahs that Jesus said look out for.

originally posted by: Hyperia
a reply to: asen_y2k

One group was very gifted in chemistry, called alchemy at the time, the semite are a nomad people.. Just a theory, chemistry is modern 15th century.. facts

What is your point? What I said is what is claimed by the scientists who experimented with the shroud. They found Indian DNA on it and postulated the Shroud to be made in India. Its not my logic or theory.

a reply to: asen_y2k

Well Dear asen_y2k,

The fact that particles of Indian Polen are present on the surface of the shroud is not proof of its origin, the most can be said scientifically is that the relic could be in India at some point of History, or materials of Indian origin were in direct contact with the shroud.

If you want to see possible explanations of this intriguing possibility please refer to the corresponding thread we have opened in the forum of science and Technology where we are already discussing different hypotheses.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: asen_y2k

Well Dear asen_y2k,

The fact that particles of Indian Polen are present on the surface of the shroud is not proof of its origin, the most can be said scientifically is that the relic could be in India at some point of History, or materials of Indian origin were in direct contact with the shroud.

If you want to see possible explanations of this intriguing possibility please refer to the corresponding thread we have opened in the forum of science and Technology where we are already discussing different hypotheses.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

Ah thanks for the clarification. I was just making a joke regarding what the scientists claimed. And in the process parroted their opinion. I will check out the thread.

Well, the Muslims certainly take the notion of not worshiping idols to the extreme, with their wanton destruction of ancient and priceless artwork, but considering all the people who spend time and energy essentially worshiping this bit of cloth with an image on it you can kind of see what they're getting at.

People get so desperate for any kind of proof that they will fixate on an idol such as the Turin Shroud instead of clearly understanding that the God they're really supposed to be worshiping is beyond the world and its poor physicality.

I don't think it should be destroyed, but believers really should get a grip and knock off the idolatry. It's one of the basic Commandments, after all.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Also, check John 11:44 about Lazarus (who would have been buried the same way most likely as He was a Hebrew, too):

"And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with grave clothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Loose him, and let him go.”

Some say Ohhh the gospels were translated badly and the Mishnah says this and that, but I am holding with the Gospels, especially when the multi accounts are in tandem.

Luke 24:12; "he saw the linen cloths by themselves". Notice here, too, we have the plural of cloths. It seems they used strips of linen upon the body and a face cloth over the head as far as the theory I side with contends.

Hey, but when did that stop the Catholic Church? They like to go their own way you see and get people believing all kinds of stuff that does not appear ANYWHERE in the NT.