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Keeping UFO's Secret: Is it Possible?

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posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:33 AM
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As I sit here on ATS reading about UFO's and extraterrestrials, former TOPSECRET black programs, USAF advanced aircraft, and former classified governmental and military programs, I'm forced to ask myself if it's even possible to maintain absolute secrecy regarding the existence of aliens/alien UFO's?

What first comes to mind is our nation's first nuclear weapons program.

The Manhattan Project employed two hundred thousand people. It had eighty offices and dozens of production plants spread out all over the country, including a sixty-thousand-acre facility in rural Tennessee that pulled more power off the nation's electrical grid than New York City did on any given night. And no one knew the Manhattan Project was there. That is how powerful a black operation can be.

Harry Truman, having served as both Vice President and President, was duped twice during this atomic age. He was in charge of investigating the nation's defense program as VP, and missed the 28,000,000,000 price tag of 'the bomb.' Additionally, he had to be briefed as POTUS regarding the nuclear weapon. Now that's a secret!

All this is well and good but the Soviets eventually infiltrated our atomic weapons program. Theodore Hall and Klaus Fuchs were noted atomic-age spies. There was an estimated 11 spies, most being convicted of violating the Official Secrets Act, getting 30 years prison sentence. Cold War Spies

So what are the chances that Earth has been visited, even been crashed up, left debris, been collected, reverse-engineered and applied to our technology, and hasn't been leaked with tangible, hard, objective data to show for it? While Bob Lazaar is convincing and unwavering, and while there Is evidence to suggest he worked at Los Alamos, his background educational history is questionable, if not, fabricated. Provided TPTB haven't erased it to discredit him, which I doubt. However, discrediting him, while allowing him to tell his story is one hell of a Disinformation campaign IMO; it put him in his place, but still kept the public's eye on E.T. while ignoring our own advanced aircraft. Maybe? IDK?

So, add up all the government and military workers, defense and intelligence agencies, in the U.S. and world-wide, plus NASA. And no one has produced hands-on evidence? Either these agencies and the government have perfected how to collect, keep, and maintain TOPSECRET material and equipment, or there just isn't any to bring forth.

Thoughts????




posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:37 AM
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a reply to: Cosmic911

The short answer is No. In a world of whistle blowers, unsilenced government officials, and poor cover-up attempts. Along with numerous sighting, they themselves are not exactly doing well at covering it from the public eye.
edit on 19-10-2015 by DeadCat because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:39 AM
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I think if there is something that's being kept from us it's the old guard of hawks in charge and definitely not the post-Cold War knuckleheads.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: Cosmic911

Since the answer you seek relies heavily on personal opinions, let me state mine.

In short, the answer is no.
Is the government capable of disinformation and alluding the public to believe in things as to keep them occupied from the real truth? Yes. They have been known to sway public opinion, mislead politicians, and completely lie to their constituents.

I'll keep my beliefs out of this, but the fact of the matter is that Roswell was an Airforce operation that was lied about to the general public in order to keep their "secrets" which was nothing more than studying Nazi engineering. Wouldn't want the public to know we got all this technology from the enemy now would we?

What is the easiest thing to dissuade a populous with? Aliens.


LOL




posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: DeadCat

I tend to agree with you. There's strong evidence to suggest that it would be impossible to keep and maintain such a secret. The only exception I see is the JFK assassination, where most of the damning evidence has been keep secret and in the hands of very few people.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: Cosmic911


So what are the chances that Earth has been visited, even been crashed up, left debris, been collected, reverse-engineered and applied to our technology,


Considering aircraft still use carbon based fuels, no reverse engineered alien technology has been used.

The reason being, there isn't any.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: havok

I also believe Roswell might have been a cover for the use of Nazi technology. I do not believe the mood of the country would have accepted or supported the use of German hardware.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 11:01 AM
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originally posted by: DeadCat
a reply to: Cosmic911

The short answer is No. In a world of whistle blowers, unsilenced government officials, and poor cover-up attempts. Along with numerous sighting, they themselves are not exactly doing well at covering it from the public eye.


However, there are a myriad of whistle blowers for UFOs, and there are just as many dis-info people to counter the truths these people, the real whistle blowers, expose. When they get really close, some of them are allegedly killed. I have read where the secret of electronic flight is more secret than the nuclear weapons the US has for whatever reasons.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: alldaylong

Great rebuttal. One I had never considered. My background is biological and health, and not necessarily the most technologically. Now, I include this in most my posts regarding this topic. I have a good friend whom I worked with for over eight years, he's a no-nonsense former US Army OH-58 pilot and commissioned officer. He now works for Lockheed Martin as a project manager. He told me a few years back, "We have some hardware. We're trying to get it to work on our technology." I have no reason to doubt him. And I've always felt that no, aliens have never put 'boots on the ground, but sending a probe might seem plausible. It's what we would most likely do. Maybe we have something that mostly burned up in the atmosphere but some made it to the ground? IDK...



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: Cosmic911

Government workers: Military and civilian workers that get deeply involved in UFO work get paid well on the job and their pensions come very close to being the amounts they received while working. They all pass clearance tests of their credibility for those jobs. They all sign statements that they can be persecuted if they fail to follow what they have agreed upon. Lastly, most will be "company men" that believe in what they are doing, meaning in what they are told to do.

Most of these folks will believe in the enormity of the "UFO secret," draw comfort from that knowledge and understand the reasons why an unprepared public must be kept in the dark for as long as possible. The UFO secret is also a military secret as great as any that ever was secret. There is no better detailing of that than to acknowledge that the black triangles seen for now for four decades over the US are results of our utilization of ET physics. Being new here, I'll repeat for you one of my continual assertions: Black triangles, and similar vehicles we have defy mass, that feature represents the greatest development in transportation since the development of the wheel.

(Tales from Bob Lazar are the last place you should go for getting up to speed on UFOs.)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:12 PM
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a reply to: Cosmic911

If you mean could extraterrestrial technology be kept secret, the answer is no. Any technology sufficiently advanced to travel between the stars would be incomprehensible to human scientists. Can you imagine a group of chimpanzees back engineering a jet plane?



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:31 PM
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I see a flaw in this argument, even though I've used it myself in the past. That being said, Im always looking to improve my debate skills or improve the logic I use therein.

Here we posit its impossible to keep things under wraps because of human nature, and well, human suck at keeping secrets. Just look for the first disgruntled employee and you have a list of pretty much everything that person knew and did while working for the company.

But here's the catch, this brings into question private corporations. Let's forget bumbling governments and their agencies for a second [they are all so self serving and agenda driven its no wonder there are leaks and tell alls with them] instead lets look at the private sector.

How much do you know about Blackwater et al? Do we even know all the names of the defence contractors who are charged with 'keeping the country safe'? Do we have any idea how many there are, who they are, who works for them, who runs them? In some cases, yes or kind of, but that was spurred by investigative journalism more so than leaks.

Here's a few more.

The secret recipe by Coke & Pepsi.

The secret recipe for any kind of business success, try starting your own business and figure out 'how do you run this type of business successfully' aka:trade secrets, yes you can find books and movies and seminars telling you "the secrets" but thats all bull snip.

Actual trade secrets are actually quite secretive.

Look into the large capital infrastructure industry and while you might find some white papers on job safety, everything else to do with those companies is under lock and key. [Halliburton, KBR, URS, Skanska, et al] and those are just the builders, try getting info on the owner companies, Mitsubishi, Praxair, Owens Corning, J&J, GE, Honeywell et al.

To be honest, a lot of people don't even know these companies exist, unless they have another division which has a retail market wing.

Im beginning to think that argument is kind of moot. Chances are if a secretive sub-group within the government was trying to keep something secret, they would outsource it anyway. Doesnt make sense to keep it inside the gov when the gov will always have to answer to people in some form or the other.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Cosmic911




I'm forced to ask myself if it's even possible to maintain absolute secrecy regarding the existence of aliens/alien UFO's?


sure it's possible. Very easy also.

You simply deny it at the top of the food chain. President or some head honcho at NASA or military simply say...they have no info on any aliens/UFO. That's usually enough for 98 % of the population.

The rest are Conspiracy theorists (branded as nutters by the establishment)...and nobody believes CT's.

Any dangerous whistleblowers are swiftly dealt with.

Denial...the first and best tool for keeping anything a secret. People look to authority for confirmation...sadly...and this is used to the fullest extent. If it's not vetted by an authority figure...it's as if it didn't happen.

Witnesses be damned.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Cosmic911

If you mean could extraterrestrial technology be kept secret, the answer is no. Any technology sufficiently advanced to travel between the stars would be incomprehensible to human scientists. Can you imagine a group of chimpanzees back engineering a jet plane?


To be fair, reverse engineering and the ability to keep technology secret is kind of two separate arguments is it not?



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: boncho

To be fair, reverse engineering and the ability to keep technology secret is kind of two separate arguments is it not?


For example: Our current Administration accidentally gave a secret drone to Iran, then Iran reverse engineered it.
edit on 19-10-2015 by draknoir2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly


sure it's possible. Very easy also.


Just because you say something doesnt suddenly bring it to life or make it true. People are pointing out the systemic nature the government and its organizations have for leaking or dripping info. Whether its a political agenda, disgruntled employees, or what have you, information within the government often gets leaked because of the nature of the government itself.

It's not a private corporation, there is no unity. Even within different agencies, there are often various political powers pushing their own agendas trying to get to the top of the food chain [as you say].




You simply deny it at the top of the food chain.


But there has to be someone at the top, somewhere for it to even be a secret. Maybe another agency, fine, but those roles are constantly changing or new people are coming in and out of them.

No matter how powerful a secret group [a shadow government if you will] is, they cannot control each wing of the government entirely at all times. There have been numerous short term changes over the years for any alphabet agency [choose whichever one you want] the idea here is that one of them is holding all the secrets right? That can't be purged simply because someone new came into power in that agency, so at least one, has to be carry this secret since what? the 1950s?

So during that entire period with dozens of political power struggles within, never was a time where someone came into power that wasn't chosen or planned? It's a little hard to imagine.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: DeadCat

This is my first reply having read and viewed ATS for many years. In reply , no disrespect but yes you can. First my background is I am an American former soldier and combat vet. I held a top secret clearance for the entire duration of my service. I was a member of Special Forces and Special Operations. I have worked with classified units all over the world as well as agencies with the US government. I can tell you without hesitation that there are many I repeat MANY things that are never divulged. You state with all the whistle blowers, there havent been that many. But you seem to ignore the Astronauts and other military personnel that have come forward. If you look at the look at who is coming forward it is the people that have had the secrecy oath expire. Mine is active until 2075, 75 years. When you sign this you are told if you tell secrets you will be prosecuted, but it isnt like a civilian, the military will re-activate you and hold your trial under military regulations, alot tougher consequences. Many "black programs" are so compartmentalized that only a very few know about them. I know of many things not related to UFO's that have happened and the public is completely unaware of anything other than the official story. with all this being said I think it is getting harder to hide things as the younger military and such dont have the same feeling when it comes to keeping something secret and to tell a million people you only have to go on the web.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: alldaylong




Considering aircraft still use carbon based fuels, no reverse engineered alien technology has been used.

The reason being, there isn't any.


if it was used openly...then it no longer would be a secret...and sooner or later...they would have to share it. If there is reverse engineered tech...it is most certainly used clandestinely. Not in the public arena. Any such tech in view of the public would raise soooo many awkward questions...they would not dare show it. The whole ugly reality of UFO denial, space, human history...it would turn all of it upside down.

No man...if there is such a tech...they would never use it to improve public domain tech. It wouldn't make sense.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: maximoilm
a reply to: DeadCat

This is my first reply having read and viewed ATS for many years. In reply , no disrespect but yes you can. First my background is I am an American former soldier and combat vet. I held a top secret clearance for the entire duration of my service. I was a member of Special Forces and Special Operations. I have worked with classified units all over the world as well as agencies with the US government. I can tell you without hesitation that there are many I repeat MANY things that are never divulged.


Really? You were awarded a TS clearance and worked with classified Special Ops units all over the world for the entire duration of your service, yet you can tell an entire forum without hesitation? No hesitation at all?



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: boncho




People are pointing out the systemic nature the government and its organizations have for leaking or dripping info


Leaks and drips are irrelevant in the big picture. There have been many govt or military leaks...what has it accomplished ? The one doing the leaking is simply crushed, charged with treason or something. Once charged..he/she becomes persona non grata...and all the info leaked immediately becomes untrustworthy or not even talked about.

I see it on ATS daily...you find some dirt on the leaker...and presto...99 % of ATS members won't even look at the claim...let alone believe it.



But there has to be someone at the top, somewhere for it to even be a secret. Maybe another agency, fine, but those roles are constantly changing or new people are coming in and out of them.

No matter how powerful a secret group [a shadow government if you will] is, they cannot control each wing of the government entirely at all times. There have been numerous short term changes over the years for any alphabet agency [choose whichever one you want] the idea here is that one of them is holding all the secrets right? That can't be purged simply because someone new came into power in that agency, so at least one, has to be carry this secret since what? the 1950s?


Do you know how many above top secret files exist...? (I'm talking about military classification) or way above top secret ? Number of people changing within an organization is irrelevant. You just slap a sticker on it...ABOVE TOP SECRET. I'm sure there are way higher classifications than ATS, I just don't know how they are called.

Point is...with high classifications...you ensure that only a handful of people will ever get to read it. The hierarchy ensures it. And those that read it...obviously have these classifications...because they are trusted not to reveal it. And even if they did...heaven will open and sh** storm will befall them.

why haven't we seen what 28 pages of a classified report about 9/11 says ? how come it didn't get leaked ? a decent number of people has seen it. Fear...and hierarchy...all that's needed.




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