Even if God(s) Existed, I Wouldn't Worship Him/Them

a reply to: ScrewGmail

Well I hope you can stay moral as things get tough considering you are an atheist

This is assuming you are moral right now

lolol

The atheists are necessarily immoral, and or morality comes from religion, are arguments that always lose. Always.

a reply to: TheCretinHop

I think anyone can have morals.

Agreed. That's obviously the case.

But I've noticed a lot of atheists...

What you said is not at all representative of most atheists i've spoken with. So it stands to reason atheists vary greatly in their disposition and beliefs. There are way too many atheists all over the Globe for either of us to attribute our experience to all of them. I could turn around and describe many very negative qualities i've witnessed from religious people, but I would never say that's true for all of them.

Often people are atheists for these reasons:

1) they don't want to submit to anyone but themselves.

What does that really mean? That atheists don't follow authority? Atheists generally have no regard for the Law??

2) They see suffering in the world and assume God must not exist.

There isn't any one specific reason all atheists lack belief in a deity. For some that might be the ticket.

3) they feel guilty for what they know are sinful traits

No. They do not. Sin is a religious concept with metaphysical implications. Why would someone that doesn't believe in the god of that religion then believe in sin?

They are not atheists because of science

See. You're trying to attribute things to every atheist in the World. Do you possess the power of omniscience?

in fact the greatest minds recognize design in creation

Correction: some great minds believe in Creationism. Many great minds do not. One thing is certain; when religious people employ the scientific method they are not using the Bible.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

So as an atheist, you know for certain there is no creator/designer/higher power/god (take your pick)?

a reply to: newWorldSamurai
I'm an atheist so I'll give a response. I don't speak for WakeUpBeer.

Atheism isn't necessarily a claim of knowledge. From my experience most atheists don't much such claims. I lack belief in god(s). That's all.

Sometimes I use my spaceship analogy...

If I were to tell you there is an advanced alien race zipping around our solar system but they have technology that keeps them completely invisible. We literally don't possess the ability to see/detect them in any way. Would you believe me? Would you believe they were in fact flying around say the Moon or Mars?

Can you see how it's entirely possible to lack belief in somethings existence yet at the same time acknowledge you don't have the knowledge for certainty?

originally posted by: newWorldSamurai
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

So as an atheist, you know for certain there is no creator/designer/higher power/god (take your pick)?

As an atheist I have no belief in a supernatural creator/designer/higher power/god (take your pick).
In my personal opinion none that have been claimed to exist have strong enough evidence to support their existence, and more evidence to suggest they don't exist at all.
I am open to the possibility that there is "something" that we may define as divine.

I hope this helped clear that up?

Ok so what if you were paid to believe?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
Ok so what if you were paid to believe?

I still wouldn't be able to force myself to believe.

So it would be dishonest if I took the money.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I see but I think such an experiment would be very telling.

You would be in the same shoes as many preachers find themselves in sometimes.

They sometimes question their own beliefs yet have large monetary reasons to believe.

In my experiment it would not matter what you believe but your attendance and how well you pretend.

a reply to: deadeyedick

That would be a very interesting experiment. I'd love to see the results. However, this is about genuine belief in god(s) existence. So I'd mostly be interested in the results if that could somehow be assessed.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: newWorldSamurai
I'm an atheist so I'll give a response. I don't speak for WakeUpBeer.

Atheism isn't necessarily a claim of knowledge. From my experience most atheists don't much such claims. I lack belief in god(s). That's all.

Sometimes I use my spaceship analogy...

If I were to tell you there is an advanced alien race zipping around our solar system but they have technology that keeps them completely invisible. We literally don't possess the ability to see/detect them in any way. Would you believe me? Would you believe they were in fact flying around say the Moon or Mars?

Can you see how it's entirely possible to lack belief in somethings existence yet at the same time acknowledge you don't have the knowledge for certainty?

I can't disagree with that analogy. And if more people looked at through that lense, there might be a more amiable relationship between atheists and deists.

Unfortunately, many times, both side espouse that the other side is absolutely wrong. One side is unintelligent and the other side is heading for eternal damnation. My personal belief is that we'll only know (or not know) when we die and I leave it at that. In the end, it's all a belief system.

Although, I sometimes do envy the agnostic among us - "I'm not playing this stupid game. I'm out."

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
As many know, I am an atheist. To be clear on my position, it is this: I lack an iota of belief in any of the gods and goddesses claimed to exist, ever. In fact, I go so far as to say they are all easily proven as non existent. That said, I am open to the concept of "a god" of some "sort". For arguments sake, let me consider things if I am wrong, and gods do exist. I wouldn't bend the knee to any of them. I challenge you to name a single deity that would be worthy of enough of my praise and admiration that I should actually consider worshiping it, and why.

LOL I think you missed the entire concept of "faith" and "belief". It's not God who needs to prove His worth to us, it's us that need to prove our worth to Him. In my religion, that's literally the point of our temporary existence on Earth; to make our case for Heaven.

In other words, nope. If you can't see it on your own, there's no point. Also, I'm a bit selfish so I don't care if no one else worships or acknowledges God. More Heaven for me! Muahahahaha!

a reply to: deadeyedick

Marjoe was a precocious child preacher with extraordinary talents, who was immensely popular in the American South. His parents earned large sums of money off him up until the point he outgrew his novelty. Marjoe rejoined the ministry as a young adult solely as a means of earning a living, and not as a believer; he spent the next several years using his fame and status as an evangelist to earn a living from both tent revivals and televangelism.

Eventually, Gortner suffered a crisis of conscience and decided to give up the revival circuit. He offered the documentary film crew unrestricted access to him during his final revival tour, which took place in 1971. The film contains scenes from revival meetings showing Gortner preaching and praying for people in Los Angeles, Fort Worth, Detroit and Anaheim. This is interspersed with footage of Gortner admitting on camera that he was a non-believer and revealing the tactics used by him and other evangelists to manipulate people and move them during revivals. He said he studied Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones.[1]

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: deadeyedick
You would be in the same shoes as many preachers find themselves in sometimes.

They sometimes question their own beliefs yet have large monetary reasons to believe.

I've heard about some preachers like this. I would agree some stay in their positions purely for monetary reasons. But many stay for other reasons. Friends, family. Fear of what it could mean for those close to them if they suddenly revealed their beliefs had changed.

You say your an atheist. I believe we were created in the image...... The Chinese calendar I think is 5,000 something. Maybe 10,000 years of history of man. I don't believe in evolution . People were on separate continents. And not with just different beaks of the same bird Darwin examined. If there were a missing link there would have to be several or a lot from monkey to person. We are the privileged elite with the God gene. Fingers digits on our hands and the biology or architecture of the human body is incredible. Certainly you wouldn't argue about our vision system or nervous system or the whole body inside and out to be a masterpiece of nature or supernatural design.

Do you believe since the planets beginning there was water and the sun and we all evolved from germs or algae? Single called organisms with no brain just instinct , feed , reproduce the most basic of actions. You think life is an accident? Or a random event like weather on this planet? I believe it is a gift and I am thankful and appreciative . Do you think everything you have ever known , this life you have is just nature assimilating computers and there is no reason to life? Just a cosmic accident? This life has been growing in every direction since the dinosaur lived and died, billions of years to create you cause life started somewhere. We don't know the where or how, but to live your 60 or 70 years here and have the mentality that I hate all religions or deities or make fun when these are widely accepted by the masses. Don't you feel like maybe Karma or something, self destructive spirals , hedonism, gluttony, lust, addiction or wherever your time is spent without love or happiness of God is going to come back at you.

Being a hateful person or hating religion can lead to attitude of not caring and not being a creature of love. Littering because who cares, hurting other people cause who cares , using cigarettes and drugs because who cares and maybe you atheists don't care about your selfs. I have seen lots of angry , vengeful people on this site and makes me wonder what goes on in your head. Always trying to destroy then let be or create. For ego or feeling superior over others beliefs.

You said that you haven't completely closed the door on religion or the thought of a God. Why don't you give it a try ? Instead of "hanging" with your online atheist friends on ATS, why don't you go outside and go to church? Meet some new people who are church people and hang with them outside. You might get into community work volunteer or help the less fortunate. You can talk to your new friends and say, " I just don't get religion" and listen what they say. And start a conversation. Say you always had doubts and hey can talk to you about it. You can try as an experiment, you might feel happier or more content just believing in a creator and an answer to life.

originally posted by: Silenthill666007
You said that you haven't completely closed the door on religion or the thought of a God.

I said I am open to "something" that could be defined as divine in some sense.
I said I do not believe in any of the gods or goddesses etc. claimed to exist, actually exist. My mind is not open to their existence.

Why don't you give it a try ? Instead of "hanging" with your online atheist friends on ATS, why don't you go outside and go to church? Meet some new people who are church people and hang with them outside. You might get into community work volunteer or help the less fortunate. You can talk to your new friends and say, " I just don't get religion" and listen what they say. And start a conversation. Say you always had doubts and hey can talk to you about it. You can try as an experiment, you might feel happier or more content just believing in a creator and an answer to life.

I am a former Christian.

How about this, being that created milky way for example, exists, but does not need your worship?

How does one know there is somekinda creator being?

Symmetry, in our solar system, just look at it, look strangeness at saturn, venus spins anticlockwise and makes flowerish figure when spinnin around with our planet, just look at stars, you see, there is alot of stuff what we humans cannot explain, neither have words for them, think it that way?

Worship truth if you like, that's my way to go

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Everyones a sinner according to Christians so i guess everyone deserves to die? which we will

What sort of Christianity is that? Where is the Christ bit? You know, God becoming man, dieing on our behalf so we dont have to?

originally posted by: Cinrad

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Everyones a sinner according to Christians so i guess everyone deserves to die? which we will

What sort of Christianity is that? Where is the Christ bit? You know, God becoming man, dieing on our behalf so we dont have to?

that would be Paulianity... ye know, the wages of sin are death?

originally posted by: TheCretinHop
I think anyone can have morals. But I've noticed a lot of atheists are typically nihilistic, morbid or cynical.

nihilistic? I think they are nihilists. I guess nihilists are atheists, but i know plenty of morbid and cynical religious folk. You probably know that too though so i don't know why you included it in your post. You could have just said you don't like atheists. You don't have to demonize us.

Often people are atheists for these reasons: 1) they don't want to submit to anyone but themselves.

nobody is an atheist for that reason. We just don't believe the fairy tale. It's not like we believe in god and just want to defy him. That is probably what you think though.

2) They see suffering in the world and assume God must not exist.

. Nope again. We don't believe in gods because there is no reason to believe in them, except for old ass fairy tales that we don't believe. What we could ask is "why would you believe in a god that creates all this suffering in the world?"

3) they feel guilty for what they know are sinful traits(which all people have) so they want to believe in something that doesn't make them have a guilty conscience.

I could just as easily say that you only believe in gods because you want forgiveness for all of the horrible things you do to people. But i won't.
I don't believe in gods or your sins. You really aren't getting this. Why would i have a guilty conscience for not believing in a god, if i don't believe in god?

They are not atheists because of science, in fact the greatest minds recognize design in creation

no they don't.

and also the fundamental fact of biogenesis and how non-living matter cannot come from non-living matter.

that is hilarious. Especially coming from a person who is made from 100% non organic matter. Organic. As in non living matter that is organised into a cohesive union to form a living being. Organised matter. Non living matter, Organised into a living being. Geez. Why do i even try?

originally posted by: NthOther
How about the deity that saw fit to create you in a time and place where you can freely trash Him on the internet from the comfort of your living room whilst sipping a frosty brew?

Which one would that be?

originally posted by: Metallicus
I don't believe in a deity that requires we worship It. I do believe we were created and are here to learn about ourselves and the world around us. I think most people here would agree we are here to become better versions of ourselves. As long as we do that it doesn't matter what you believe about God.

I can dig that.