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Ben Carsaon and Gun Control in Nazi Germany

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posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 11:38 PM
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There was a previous general thread about Ben Carson comparing the US to Nazi Germany, but not in specific to gun control. Ben Carson seems to think that the German people, especially minorities, were easily overrun by Hitler since Hitler took away guns. This is not true. Hitler atually relaxed gun laws passed after WWI and was able to invade other countries no matter what their stance was on personal gun ownership.


It seems like relaxing gun laws did not help.


edit on 17-10-2015 by reldra because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 11:49 PM
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a reply to: reldra

If the Jews had actual access to guns then they were just stupid and not victims?



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 11:53 PM
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a reply to: reldra

It is my understanding that while rights for "Germans" went up in regards to gun restrictions; there were additional restrictions put on for individuals like the Jewish, homosexuals, foreigners, etc (AKA: not the people we want to support).

Relaxing gun laws for a few doesn't equate to relaxing gun laws.


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 11:53 PM
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a reply to: reldra

How the Nazis Used Gun Control. You would be insane to register firearms. That is always the first step to confiscation.

Weimar law for comprehensive gun-owner licensing and gun registration worked very well for the Nazis. Almost as soon as they obtained power, they began using the gun registration lists to disarm all political opponents, such as Social Democrats. Opponents of Weimer gun registration had worried about registration lists falling into the hands of extremists; that happened in 1933, when the government itself fell to extremists.


Read more at: www.nationalreview.com...
www.nationalreview.com...


The perennial gun-control debate in America did not begin here. The same arguments for and against were made in the 1920s in the chaos of Germany’s Weimar Republic, which opted for gun registration. Law-abiding persons complied with the law, but the Communists and Nazis committing acts of political violence did not. In 1931, Weimar authorities discovered plans for a Nazi takeover in which Jews would be denied food and persons refusing to surrender their guns within 24 hours would be executed.

They were written by Werner Best, a future Gestapo official. In reaction to such threats, the government authorized the registration of all firearms and the confiscation thereof, if required for “public safety.” The interior minister warned that the records must not fall into the hands of any extremist group. In 1933, the ultimate extremist group, led by Adolf Hitler, seized power and used the records to identify, disarm, and attack political opponents and Jews. Constitutional rights were suspended, and mass searches for and seizures of guns and dissident publications ensued.

Police revoked gun licenses of Social Democrats and others who were not “politically reliable.” During the five years of repression that followed, society was “cleansed” by the National Socialist regime. Undesirables were placed in camps where labor made them “free,” and normal rights of citizenship were taken from Jews. The Gestapo banned independent gun clubs and arrested their leaders. Gestapo counsel Werner Best issued a directive to the police forbidding issuance of firearm permits to Jews. In 1938, Hitler signed a new Gun Control Act. Now that many “enemies of the state” had been removed from society, some restrictions could be slightly liberalized, especially for Nazi Party members. But Jews were prohibited from working in the firearms industry, and .22 caliber hollow-point ammunition was banned.

The time had come to launch a decisive blow to the Jewish community, to render it defenseless so that its “ill-gotten” property could be redistributed as an entitlement to the German “Volk.” The German Jews were ordered to surrender all their weapons, and the police had the records on all who had registered them.

Even those who gave up their weapons voluntarily were turned over to the Gestapo. This took place in the weeks before what became known as the Night of the Broken Glass, or Kristallnacht, occurred in November 1938.

That the Jews were disarmed before it, minimizing any risk of resistance, is the strongest evidence that the pogrom was planned in advance. An incident was needed to justify unleashing the attack. That incident would be the shooting of a German diplomat in Paris by a teenage Polish Jew.

Hitler directed propaganda minister Josef Goebbels to orchestrate the Night of the Broken Glass. This massive operation, allegedly conducted as a search for weapons, entailed the ransacking of homes and businesses, and the arson of synagogues. SS chief Heinrich Himmler decreed that 20 years be served in a concentration camp by any Jew possessing a firearm. Rusty revolvers and bayonets from the Great War were confiscated from Jewish veterans who had served with distinction.

Twenty thousand Jewish men were thrown into concentration camps, and had to pay ransoms to get released.


edit on 18-10-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 11:53 PM
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Jews were not allowed to own guns in Nazi Germany, look it up.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 12:06 AM
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a reply to: reldra

Ben Carson seems to think that the German people, especially minorities, were easily overrun by Hitler since Hitler took away guns. This is not true.


Rubbish.



On November 11, 1938 (the day after Kristallnacht) the Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons were promulgated by Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick, effectively depriving all Jews living under the Third Reich of the right to possess any form of weapons including truncheons, knives, or firearms and ammunition.

Before that, some police forces used the pre-existing "trustworthiness" clause to disarm Jews on the basis that "the Jewish population 'cannot be regarded as trustworthy'".

Disarming Jews in Nazi Germany





posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 12:08 AM
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The good old nazy card, go tell a survivor or families of people that died in there death camp, how you think todays society is similar to nazy germany.

Id love to be a fly on the wall to see there reaction.

By using the nazy card people are slowly erasing the truth of how evil they where.




posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 12:17 AM
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The idea that the Jews owning guns would have made any difference is a fantasy. In fact the if Jews started shooting it simply would have sped up their demise as the Nazis would then claim a threat to national security and kill them right away and in public instead of sneaking around. Guns did not help France or Poland or a dozen other nations to think the Jews with small arms would stand a chance is ludicrous. For the Germans guns rights were increased including shooting clubs for kids. For Jews who were no even considered Germans of course they were banned. Just as African Americans were not protected by the 2nd Amendment for many decades. It is ironic that both the Founding Fathers and Nazi Germany picked an entire group of people to deny rights to.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 12:30 AM
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originally posted by: MrSpad
The idea that the Jews owning guns would have made any difference is a fantasy. In fact the if Jews started shooting it simply would have sped up their demise as the Nazis would then claim a threat to national security and kill them right away and in public instead of sneaking around. Guns did not help France or Poland or a dozen other nations to think the Jews with small arms would stand a chance is ludicrous. For the Germans guns rights were increased including shooting clubs for kids. For Jews who were no even considered Germans of course they were banned. Just as African Americans were not protected by the 2nd Amendment for many decades. It is ironic that both the Founding Fathers and Nazi Germany picked an entire group of people to deny rights to.


While I agree if it was just the Jewish that were denied guns you may have a point. You are not looking at the overall restrictions.

If you still fail to see where you are incorrect, look at the last 20 years in the middle east. How many minority populations are an extreme threat to the stability of those nations?

The Jewish themselves might not have had the numbers, but all the persecuted classes together?
We see every week how one individual can take double digit lives.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 12:38 AM
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a reply to: MrSpad




It is ironic that both the Founding Fathers and Nazi Germany picked an entire group of people to deny rights to.


More ironic than acknowledging that gun ownership is indeed a right and then saying that it really doesn't matter anyway?

Would you say the same of your other rights?
edit on 18-10-2015 by rockintitz because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 12:41 AM
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The Nazi's used gun registration as a way of rounding up dissenters and possible rebellions within Germany. Nazi's weren't stupid. They relaxed gun laws as a strategic advantage.


I wouldn't be suprised if the US became another Nazi Germany or a lesser form of it.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 01:05 AM
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This Advertisement targeted at teens and 20 somethings was plastered over MTV in 2008.

You have to ask yourself 'WHY' and for what purpose?

It almost feels like a manufactured subliminal for what is being planned. Although i'm far from worried about it, i do realise that mass projection happens and the borg mindset rules the planet, or tries to..


edit on 10/18/2015 by awareness10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 01:32 AM
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a reply to: infolurker

There's a part in that massive excerpt you cited that sort of contradicts your idea of confiscation:


They were written by Werner Best, a future Gestapo official. In reaction to such threats, the government authorized the registration of all firearms and the confiscation thereof, if required for “public safety.” The interior minister warned that the records must not fall into the hands of any extremist group. In 1933, the ultimate extremist group, led by Adolf Hitler, seized power and used the records to identify, disarm, and attack political opponents and Jews. Constitutional rights were suspended, and mass searches for and seizures of guns and dissident publications ensued.


So, for years, nothing happened with the registry until an extremist group took control of the government. The whole NAZI argument falls apart on many levels, but, among them...the NAZI party wasn't a majority when Hitler came to power. It was the inability of the government to keep power in check. America has checks and balances and those are dependent on the voting public. When the public stops voting, that's when you should be fearful for your rights.


edit on 18-10-2015 by links234 because: bad coding



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 01:52 AM
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a reply to: links234

How did that work in Australia and Great Britain?

Registry = We know what you have and if we decide it is now illegal, give it up or face government justice.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 02:11 AM
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a reply to: infolurker

Well...the guns were taken away, which was the point. That was years ago, are you suggesting that Great Britain and Australia are going to start ethnic cleansing? That seems to be the point of these NAZI comparisons, once the guns are gone the government is just going to round up people and kill them. But Australia and Great Britain haven't done that, to my knowledge.

What's so bad about bad guys losing their guns?



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 04:54 AM
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oops - sorry, had 2 tabs open and replied to the wrong OP.
edit on 18-10-2015 by DAVID64 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 07:38 AM
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originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: MrSpad
The idea that the Jews owning guns would have made any difference is a fantasy. In fact the if Jews started shooting it simply would have sped up their demise as the Nazis would then claim a threat to national security and kill them right away and in public instead of sneaking around. Guns did not help France or Poland or a dozen other nations to think the Jews with small arms would stand a chance is ludicrous. For the Germans guns rights were increased including shooting clubs for kids. For Jews who were no even considered Germans of course they were banned. Just as African Americans were not protected by the 2nd Amendment for many decades. It is ironic that both the Founding Fathers and Nazi Germany picked an entire group of people to deny rights to.


While I agree if it was just the Jewish that were denied guns you may have a point. You are not looking at the overall restrictions.

If you still fail to see where you are incorrect, look at the last 20 years in the middle east. How many minority populations are an extreme threat to the stability of those nations?

The Jewish themselves might not have had the numbers, but all the persecuted classes together?
We see every week how one individual can take double digit lives.


Anywhere people tried armed resistance against the Germans the results were so devastating they stopped. Look at the results of the assassination of Heydrich. The simple fact is people with small arms stand to chance against a modern military that has aircraft, artillery, armor and the will to use it without mercy. When you shoot a German and the result is they line up and shoot a large group of random civilians from a local village, send the rest off to camps then burn the village to ground just because you might have hid in it, you tend to stop shooting Germans.

And also lets not pretend Jews did not take up arms and try to resist the Germans. In 1943 Armed Jewish resistance groups in Warsaw Ghetto took up arms and to try and stop the Germans from sending people to concentration camps. Polish Resistance groups from The Polish Home Army the Communist Polish groups attacked from the outside. The result somewhere between 18 and 300 dead Germans and 13,000 Jews killed with 56,000 sent to camps. In fact armed Jewish uprising happen in a hindered Ghettos, none of them ended well. Not to mention armed Jewish partisans through out Eastern Europe and France. Who were no more effective at harming the Germans than any other armed group.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 08:38 AM
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originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
a reply to: reldra

If the Jews had actual access to guns then they were just stupid and not victims?


I did not say that nor is that the point of the video. Guns or not, they couldn't have defended against what was, at the time, the largest and most well-trained army in the world.

Try actually watching the video or reading the OP before answering.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: MrSpad

That was the point I was trying to make. I should have written it like that.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 09:00 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen



a reply to: reldra

Ben Carson seems to think that the German people, especially minorities, were easily overrun by Hitler since Hitler took away guns. This is not true.


Rubbish.



On November 11, 1938 (the day after Kristallnacht) the Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons were promulgated by Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick, effectively depriving all Jews living under the Third Reich of the right to possess any form of weapons including truncheons, knives, or firearms and ammunition.

Before that, some police forces used the pre-existing "trustworthiness" clause to disarm Jews on the basis that "the Jewish population 'cannot be regarded as trustworthy'".

Disarming Jews in Nazi Germany






Rubbish? My OP is about what Ben Carson's ridiculous sign and the contents of the video, mainly. There definitely were more relaxed gun laws, even if not for who the German government considered minorities.



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