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40% of all Americans are worried about their personal religious freedom

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posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 04:52 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: angeldoll

No problem. I do see what you mean. I was labeled some sort of Christian when I defended some guy who wanted to pray after a football game.

I figure that if I don't defend everyones rights to free expression, then one day I'll be silenced for something.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Um, hate mail, death threats

You have received death-threats from antitheists on ATS via PMs?? Did you report it? That member said most were on ATS.

I asked specifically how that member was being forced to believe in atheism. So if you're going to jump into this conversation then please tell me how you are being forced.
edit on 19-10-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 05:14 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 05:16 PM
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posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 05:23 PM
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a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

To be fair, we aren't being forced to believe in Christianity.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw


I started this thread to point out to the
anti-theists that a large number of
Christians do feel they are losing
religious freedom
Which is asinine.

You said that it was all due to "Media" and "ATS posts" (that people are against religion and going nuts and shooting people)-- but then you said it wasn't actually happening (that Christians are not, in fact, being persecuted).

YOU SAID THAT! That "Christians" are imagining persecution when there really isn't any. YOU. SAID. THAT.



a large percentage feeling this way
perhaps there is reality behind the feeling.
But they are so blind and enraged over
the word Christian that they can't see
past the word and read the context.

Bat guano craziness.

Wow.


edit on 10/19/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)


MAKE UP YOUR MIND!


edit on 10/19/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 06:02 PM
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Polite Reminder...


Hi People,


Certainly appreciate that our respective viewpoints can - at times - become passionate.
They shouldn't however become poisonous.

By all means debate/discuss the topic - but please hold off on any personalised attacks...

Thank you for your understanding.



Cheers,
Alien

edit on 19-10-2015 by alien because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 06:02 PM
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This is the topic:

40% of all Americans are worried about their personal religious freedom


If you want to discuss other topics...find the appropriate thread.
If you want to have an off topic discussion with another member, take it to Private Messages.

Don't derail this thread...You are responsible for your own posts.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 08:43 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

To be fair, we aren't being forced to believe in Christianity.

Oh absolutely. That's a sentiment I have expressed here many times. I don't think most people, particularly online, are in any way being forced. Regardless of which side they're on. I don't believe Christians are forcing me to believe, any more than we are forcing them. I think people throw around 'force' way to loosely, and lose sight of what that word really implies. That's my point.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 09:45 PM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: DBCowboy

To be fair, we aren't being forced to believe in Christianity.

Oh absolutely. That's a sentiment I have expressed here many times. I don't think most people, particularly online, are in any way being forced. Regardless of which side they're on. I don't believe Christians are forcing me to believe, any more than we are forcing them. I think people throw around 'force' way to loosely, and lose sight of what that word really implies. That's my point.


Actually, I was forced to hide my faith
in order to keep my jobs when I taught
at various Universities in PSY departments.
To make it public was to risk being fired
or in my case, what actually happened,
I was denied tenure. They were all ready
to vote yes, when the subject of my
faith came up. My 'friend' felt they deserved
to know. Prior to that not one student or
faculty member (except 2 close friends)
even had a clue about my faith.

So yes I had to hide my faith many times
in order to get and keep jobs.
Many Universities will not hire Christians
if the Christian is active in their faith.
They just won't if they are a public
University or college. They are not allowed to
ask, but if it comes up, adios.

So while I was not forced to be an atheist, if
I wanted work I had to at least sound like an
atheist in the classroom and at job interviews.
And that is a form of coercion.

Honestly, these days in order to teach in any
public school one must talk like an atheist
and interview like an atheist, and behave in
the classroom like an atheist, or risk losing
ones job. To even answer a question from a
student about Christianity is to risk job loss.
To read a Bible, in private, over lunch in
the school to oneself is to risk job loss.
This is the reality of the Christian who is
an educator.
They MUST hide their faith or risk job loss.
That is coercion.


edit on 9Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:53:32 -0500pm101910pmk191 by grandmakdw because: addition spelling



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

That's the thing, though. Imagine people telling us that we could be whatever we wanted, but to keep it behind closed doors and not talk about it in public. I'd be like "Da fu?" Free expression is free expression. I like beer and football on Sundays. Some like church. To each their own.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:09 PM
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a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Anti-theism is a religious cult.

The very foundation of what they believe
is all about religion.

Their theology is that all religion is evil
religion and/or God is at the root of all the
ills in the world; and the world would be
better off without faith or religion and/or God

They worship nothingness.


"Distinctions are made between different types of cults: e.g. destructive cults (which have committed violence, or who advocate violence), vs. so-called "benign" cults (which some consider relatively harmless even though their teachings and practices may be out of step with societal and/or theological norms).

There are commercial cults (e.g. the high-pressure, "fake-it-till-you-make-it" groups, the "pay-to-pray" movements, and the "pay-more-to-advance" varieties), one-on-one cultic relationships, corporate cults, UFO cults, pseudo-religious cults, pseudo-political cults, etcetera.

" Hassan also correctly points out that cults are not only religious; they may also be commercial or secular in nature."
www.gotquestions.org...

Even if you don't think
anti-theism is an anti-religion
and therefore a religious movement;
it definitely has the characteristic
of the "us versus them" mentality
which is present in nearly every cult

"the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity.
‪ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society."
www.csj.org...

anti-theists definitely see themselves
as on a special mission to save humanity,
from religion

So anti-theists do have many characteristics
of a cult
they certainly do their best to make
converts and convince people that
Christians are the cause of all the ills in the
world today.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:27 PM
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originally posted by: grandmakdw
Buy why should we hide?

I had to hide my faith when I taught at all but one University.
(My hubby was military and so we moved a great deal)
and so I taught in a number of Universities.

Why not pray over a meal at a restaurant?
My family does it all the time and it is not to show how
righteous we are, it is because that is what we
do before every meal, all the time.


I didn't say to hide anything. I'm asking, "Why be public about something personal and private especially within a group or in an official setting where faith may be different for others???

You can pray over a meal all you want. Plus that setting doesn't fit my question either. While a restaurant is public you're talking about praying with your family. It would fit my question only if you also asked the table next to you to join you in prayer. Do you do that???

At a University I would say it depends. As long as it doesn't influence what it is you teach, unless you teach religion obviously, or compel you to persuade others into your faith then knock yourself out. Would you ask your class to join you in prayer to Jesus even though others in the class might not by Christian or even Religious at all???

Those are the types of settings I'm talking about. Settings where your Religious Expression impacts others who may not be of that faith or any faith at all.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:42 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Buy why should we hide?

I had to hide my faith when I taught at all but one University.
(My hubby was military and so we moved a great deal)
and so I taught in a number of Universities.

Why not pray over a meal at a restaurant?
My family does it all the time and it is not to show how
righteous we are, it is because that is what we
do before every meal, all the time.


I didn't say to hide anything. I'm asking, "Why be public about something personal and private especially within a group or in an official setting where faith may be different for others???

You can pray over a meal all you want. Plus that setting doesn't fit my question either. While a restaurant is public you're talking about praying with your family. It would fit my question only if you also asked the table next to you to join you in prayer. Do you do that???

At a University I would say it depends. As long as it doesn't influence what it is you teach, unless you teach religion obviously, or compel you to persuade others into your faith then knock yourself out. Would you ask your class to join you in prayer to Jesus even though others in the class might not by Christian or even Religious at all???

Those are the types of settings I'm talking about. Settings where your Religious Expression impacts others who may not be of that faith or any faith at all.


Personally, I only talk about my faith to others
when they ask.

I do pray over meals in public.

If I am excited about, say the antique car show
at the church or the time we had a clean comedian
for a night out or the time the seniors went to
a follies community show as a group, and things
like that.
Then I have asked my neighbors
who do not go to church and they have come along
and we had a great time.

My husband does ask neighbors to bake cookies
for the men in the local prison, as his group
is the only one allowed to bring sweets in.
I know for sure that one of the ladies is an atheist.
She happily bakes cookies every time for
his men's group from the church to take to
the prisoners where they teach financial
responsibility classes and life skills classes.
They try to take 40 dozen at a time and the
prison will not allow store bought cookies.

If my neighbors were to ask us about our faith
we would share with them, but with our neighbors
we also share our joys and the things we do for
the community and the fun stuff we do with
our Christian friends with our neighbor friends.

At home we don't hide our faith or "force" it on
anyone. I know that is not what you expected to hear
from a Christian.

But if you have read any of my writings you would know
that I am the worlds worst Christian according to
anti-theists, because I don't fit their preconception
of what a Christian should be.

I'm one church lady with a lot of fight in her
when it comes to defending Christianity
and my dear Christian friends from slander,
bigotry, prejudice, and paranoia that "we"
want to rule the world (that the biggest and most
prevalent idiotic idea I fight regularly)

So that all adds up to I'm the worlds worst Christian.
I don't hate gay people or transgenders and don't give
a rip if someone wants to marry 5 people.
Not my business. Live and let live.
See I told you I was one bad Christian.

Now as far as prayers in public, for public occasions,
no one is forced to listen, you can hum a tune in your head,
or put your headphones on, or stick your fingers in your
ears. If a Muslim prays in public, I ignore them because
that is not my faith, but I don't demand they stop because
I might hear something I don't like. That is silly.

If a rabid socialist gives a speech at a commencement
that makes me nearly physically ill with propaganda,
I don't demand they stop because I don't like being
forced to listen to their ideas and concepts, no matter
how much I dislike or am repulsed by them, or I think
that their ideas might be twisted and twist the young
minds they are speaking to.
I keep my mouth shut,
pretend to be nice about it, and go my way.
No one is harmed by hearing ideas and concepts they
disagree with. It's called freedom of speech.


edit on 10Mon, 19 Oct 2015 22:48:46 -0500pm101910pmk191 by grandmakdw because: addition



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:42 PM
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originally posted by: grandmakdw

Anti-theism is a religious cult.

The very foundation of what they believe
is all about religion.

Their theology is that all religion is evil
religion and/or God is at the root of all the
ills in the world; and the world would be
better off without faith or religion and/or God

They worship nothingness.


That's not quite right IMO but close. First of all they probably don't worship anything and I'm not sure you can worship nothing. If they believe in nothing they're Nihilists I think it's called. But I'd say "Anti-Theists" most likely might have been Religious and has become a Radical Atheist. That would mean they aren't blaming God because they wouldn't believe in God at all. But they do think Religion is a major problem, possibly the worst problem. Many of them do believe the world would be better off without faith.


Even if you don't think
anti-theism is an anti-religion
and therefore a religious movement;
it definitely has the characteristic
of the "us versus them" mentality
which is present in nearly every cult


How is it a Religion exactly??? If it's "Anti Religious" can it be "Religious" at the same time???


anti-theists definitely see themselves
as on a special mission to save humanity,
from religion

So anti-theists do have many characteristics
of a cult
they certainly do their best to make
converts and convince people that
Christians are the cause of all the ills in the
world today.




That's funny because you just listed the same types of things Christians do. Just change "anti-theists" the "Christians" and vise versa.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Well, actually in my opinion you would be what I call a great Christian. You've been given a bad label if you're considered the worst. It sounds like you keep your faith basically private unless someone asks or it's in the right setting. But you see, I'm not an "Anti-Theist" though either. I'm probably considered an Atheist or Agnostic for sure just to be clear.

I'm not Anti Religion or Even anti-Religious-Follower either. Although I am against many of the actions people take in the name of Religion. For example, I don't have anything against Islam or it's followers, but I have a serious problem with ISIS and Boko Harram. Don't mind your average moderate Christian but don't like Phelps or the Radical Christians crazies either. I don't like the radical in your face Atheists either that I would consider Anti-Theist not Atheist.



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 10:53 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Yep there is very little difference
between evangelical rabid Christians

and

anti-theists


They are quite alike
each fears the other

Anti-theists have as much
missionary zeal
and are as evangelistic
as any out there Christian group


They have a very very strong stand on
religion, they hate it with a passion that
equals the most in your face fervent
Christian you can find



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 11:01 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: grandmakdw

Well, actually in my opinion you would be what I call a great Christian. You've been given a bad label if you're considered the worst. It sounds like you keep your faith basically private unless someone asks or it's in the right setting. But you see, I'm not an "Anti-Theist" though either. I'm probably considered an Atheist or Agnostic for sure just to be clear.

I'm not Anti Religion or Even anti-Religious-Follower either. Although I am against many of the actions people take in the name of Religion. For example, I don't have anything against Islam or it's followers, but I have a serious problem with ISIS and Boko Harram. Don't mind your average moderate Christian but don't like Phelps or the Radical Christians crazies either. I don't like the radical in your face Atheists either that I would consider Anti-Theist not Atheist.


LOL, looks like we agree on something.

Actually many if not most on ATS find me to be
a wretched Christian because I refuse to turn
the other cheek and roll over when they
lambaste Christians and Christianity,

I am kind of proud to be their worlds worst Christian:
The kind they fear the most,
I believe in live and let live
as long as no one is physically harmed or threatened
in any way and everyone is a consenting adult.
I believe that it is important to give to the community
and help those in need as much as I can
I wont' force my beliefs on others, but I won't hide it
anymore either now that I am retired
I will defend my faith and my fellow Christians
I believe that the #1 principle of Christianity is to
love everyone as you love yourself
But I also believe that I must be wise as a serpent and
not allow my faith to be trampled on by others




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