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40% of all Americans are worried about their personal religious freedom

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posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

I just call it winter solstice. That's what it is.
The Roman Catholics claimed it, and they had this clever story about how Jesus was born. On that very day that marks the END of the solstice (the three day period where the sun remains at it's LOWEST IN THE SKY FOR THREE DAYS) (redundancy intended), Jesus was born!!! The sun won't actually die --- and we will once again have new life when the leaves come out and the birds sing the dawn chorus. Woot!

It's nothing but a Yule/Solstice celebration.
And - THEN COMES EASTER! He is risen!

People can call it whatever the hell they want.
edit on 10/18/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 04:36 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Ouch! LOL!

I mean, 'against religion' is so vague. That's why I asked for specifics. And thank you for those. I just have a couple things to say.


originally posted by: grandmakdw

anti-theist - 1. someone who is actively against religion and
.....................wants to see religious expression forbidden
.................2. and/or whose preference and goal is the elimination of all
....................religion in the world


"Actively against religion" doesn't give me any information about what "action" you mean, but the others do.
And someone who "wants" something, has "preferences", a "goal" or "sees" things a certain way, is not enough for me to say they're "actively against religion" or anti-theists. There is no action in wanting, or preferring or having a goal or viewpoint.



.................3. and/or sees religion as a threat to society as a whole


That covers a LOT of people who I wouldn't consider to be 'anti-theist', including myself. Someone who THINKS something is not necessarily going to be active. I would never vote against religious freedom, as I understand it, for example, but I do think religion, as it's manifest in the world today, is a huge threat to the people of the world.



It's up to you where you put yourself.


Yeah, I wanted to know where YOU would put me and now I do. Thanks for the answers.
edit on 10/18/2015 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 04:50 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Anti-theism is a pyramid scheme of hate, ignorance and fear

Hate, ignorance, and fear? I find that highly amusing. As an antitheist that's precisely how I would describe religion. Especially the latter two.


So the anti-theist if honest, wants
to rid the world of all religion

Typically, antitheists are against organized religion in general.


no one to be allowed to practice any
religion

I hope that through the collaboration of ideas and the sharing of knowledge, more and more theists will drop their faith on their own volition. As an antitheist I fully support religious freedom [if you understand what that is] and would never want religion to be opposed with any kind of force of threat. So no, it's not my position you shouldn't be allowed to practice Christianity.


Anti-theists, people who hate
Christ and Christians

My best friend is a Mormon

edit on 18-10-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

I think this goes hand in hand with the numbers showing that Americans increasingly view government as a threat to their rights and liberties in general.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Let's be clear. I'm not saying anyone should be "forced" to hide their faith. But when in a group setting where there are a variety of people with different faiths or no faith at all or in some official setting I think it best to keep your faith to yourselves. I say that equally about all faiths too. So suggesting a prayer to Jesus or Kali or Satan or whatever the case may be is best to do in private. So for example before a team sport or town hall meeting or whatever nobody has to be subjected to such things.

As a Christian would you want to pray to Kali if the speaker wanted everyone to have that prayer??? No. Same goes if the speaker is Christian.

I'm not saying to hide it. I'm saying why not keep it to yourself in such settings because others who are there may not be of your faith and may not want to join in and having to announce that puts them in a strange position.

For someone of no faith it may or may not matter but again why put them in that position in the first place???

I'm not saying to ban it or make such things illegal. But in some settings it's not appropriate or needed in any way.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 06:12 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

No I don't think it's out of context at all the way I mentioned Matthew. At what point is it bragging??? I'd say having a prayer before a town meeting or making an announcement to a group of random people that "we should pray" is making a production out of it. You could just as easily say a quiet prayer in your head silently if you want and it's all just as good.

There is no need to get a group of people to join in with you as you lead hand holding group prayer. That to me is the same as bragging or showing others how Righteous you are. Like saying, "Hey everyone, look at me as I pray the crap out of this!!" Just say it to yourself and let others do the same if they want or don't want. No need to announce it unless your in church or something.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 06:18 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm
Sorry, confused you with another member:


I get that the other team wants to shut us up but really? "Be Silent And Go Away" is ridiculous.

Here it is:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 18-10-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: infolurker

Sorry, confused you with another member:



No problem. It happens.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 10:42 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: grandmakdw

I think this goes hand in hand with the numbers showing that Americans increasingly view government as a threat to their rights and liberties in general.



You make an excellent point.

Their is a growing feeling in the US that the
government is a threat to personal rights and liberties.
The threat is clearly seen in the NSA storing of every
email written by every citizen, and storing the phone
numbers of who every citizen talks to on the phone, to
use "in case" ....



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 10:44 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: grandmakdw

No I don't think it's out of context at all the way I mentioned Matthew. At what point is it bragging??? I'd say having a prayer before a town meeting or making an announcement to a group of random people that "we should pray" is making a production out of it. You could just as easily say a quiet prayer in your head silently if you want and it's all just as good.

There is no need to get a group of people to join in with you as you lead hand holding group prayer. That to me is the same as bragging or showing others how Righteous you are. Like saying, "Hey everyone, look at me as I pray the crap out of this!!" Just say it to yourself and let others do the same if they want or don't want. No need to announce it unless your in church or something.


Buy why should we hide?

I had to hide my faith when I taught at all but one University.
(My hubby was military and so we moved a great deal)
and so I taught in a number of Universities.

Why not pray over a meal at a restaurant?
My family does it all the time and it is not to show how
righteous we are, it is because that is what we
do before every meal, all the time.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 10:47 PM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: mOjOm
Sorry, confused you with another member:


I get that the other team wants to shut us up but really? "Be Silent And Go Away" is ridiculous.

Here it is:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I appreciated your links.

Yes the "other side" wants us to shut up and hole up
and be good little Christians who keep their faith
behind closed doors so as not to offend anyone and
to not expose anyone to our "horrendous" belief system.
Things like : the #1 commandment that Jesus gave
to Christians, to love one another as we love ourselves.



posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 10:50 PM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: grandmakdw

Anti-theism is a pyramid scheme of hate, ignorance and fear

Hate, ignorance, and fear? I find that highly amusing. As an antitheist that's precisely how I would describe religion. Especially the latter two.


So the anti-theist if honest, wants
to rid the world of all religion

Typically, antitheists are against organized religion in general.


no one to be allowed to practice any
religion

I hope that through the collaboration of ideas and the sharing of knowledge, more and more theists will drop their faith on their own volition. As an antitheist I fully support religious freedom [if you understand what that is] and would never want religion to be opposed with any kind of force of threat. So no, it's not my position you shouldn't be allowed to practice Christianity.


Anti-theists, people who hate
Christ and Christians

My best friend is a Mormon


In my post you ridiculed, I simply copied the
post of the person I was replying to -
substituted the word anti-theist for the word
Christian or "they" meaning Christian.

It was sarcasm and pointing out that to say
those things about anyone is paranoid and
wrong.

Sorry you missed the meaning,
but re look at what I was replying to and you
will see for yourself.
I thought that the meaning was clear from
the last sentence in the post. Guess it wasn't.

That said:
Anti-theists are people as you said who want to
end religion in the world.
that is their mission and their missionary journey
and they do it with a great deal of
evangelistic fervor;
and are as obnoxious as TV evangelists
and the very people they hate for doing
exactly what they themselves are doing.

The extreme paranoia I see in anti-theists
is frightening, they actually believe that
the US might become a Christian Theocracy;
that will no more happen then them succeeding
in wiping religion off the face of the earth.
Both won't happen and thinking it will is a sign
of corporate paranoid delusion.



edit on 11Sun, 18 Oct 2015 23:00:50 -0500pm101810pmk180 by grandmakdw because: whatever



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:01 AM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

I have no doubt antitheists are as obnoxious to you, as evangelical theists are to me.

Yes, many antitheists oppose with great fervor. Which I think is great. We need a counter force. I'm glad you mentioned it as a 'missionary journey'. Spreading the faith, the "Good News', is literally mandated by religions. Hell, in my friend's denomination they call it "The Mission". Religious people view religion as a positive force in the World. Well Grandma, not everyone does. Some people believe it's a negative force; one that should be actively opposed with the same fervor its proponents spread it.

As I said before I do not condone the banning of religion. I support religious freedom. I support also the freedom for antitheists to oppose it. I support the freedom for people to make up their own damn minds.

As for fearing Christian theocracy. I don't think it will happen. I have no paranoia there. However...

“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.”
― Robert A. Heinlein



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 08:40 AM
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I'm glad you don't have the silly paranoid delusion
that a Theocracy will happen in the US.

Yes, to me anti-theists who are
missionary evangelists who spread
the message are as obnoxious to
me as TV evangelists are to you.

Actually, TV evangelists are
obnoxious to me too.

I think everyone should live and let live.
Whatever one does that doesn't harm
others physically or their property
or impede others from freedom of
movement. Ok
gay, fine
trans, fine
marry 5 people, ok with me
Now, hurt someones feelings, that is
another matter, get over it, it happens
in life, everyone hurts someones feelings
sometimes and making it illegal is downright
infantile.

In order to work at my job in most of the PSY departments
at the Universities I worked at (my husband was military
and we moved a lot), I had to hide my faith, because
of the rabid anti-theists in PSY departments in colleges
around the nation.

Many people are advocating that people of all
faiths should shut up in public and hide in their
homes and basically be ashamed of their faith
so that they can live without being exposed
to the evil faith groups.
And that is wrong.
If what I say hurts your feelings as long as I don't
harm you or threaten to harm you or your business
or your family, so what, grow up.

What I find fascinating is that the anti-theists
are saying that 40% of people CAN'T be
worried about their personal religious freedom.
As if they haven't been working diligently
to make religious people feel that way.
Huh.

By the way, any sect or cult includes
atheists and anti-theists, they are
a non-religious sect.
As a sect (atheists) can also be political
or philosophical.
A cult (anti-theists) is simply a group of
people with novel beliefs
such as all religion must be
wiped from the face of the earth.

Revisit your Heinlein quote.



edit on 9Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:36:15 -0500am101910amk191 by grandmakdw because: format addition



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 09:26 AM
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There are now "radical atheists". I know atheists in my personal life and they are nice people I call friends. But there is indeed a "radical atheist" now, and most of them are on ATS it seems. They want to force their beliefs on others, and ridicule those who do not adhere to their beliefs. They have become what they are fighting against. Pathetic they don't have anything better to do.
edit on 10/19/2015 by angeldoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 09:34 AM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
There are now "radical atheists". I know atheists in my personal life and they are nice people I call friends. But there is indeed a "radical atheist" now, and most of them are on ATS it seems. They want to force their beliefs on others, and ridicule those who do not adhere to their beliefs. They have become what they are fighting against. Pathetic they don't have anything better to do.


I agree, the radical atheists
and anti-theists are totally blind to the fact
that they are doing exactly the thing they
decry in the religious.
Trying to convert everyone to their
way of thinking,
trying to make those who disagree feel
anti-intellectual and abnormal and even evil.




edit on 9Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:37:29 -0500am101910amk191 by grandmakdw because: spelling



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: grandmakdw


Trying to convert everyone to their
way of thinking,
trying to make those who disagree feel
anti-intellectual and abnormal and even evil.

Not in my case.

My main concern is you all teaching LITTLE CHILDREN about how they're going to hell "unless" they do as you Christians say -
little kids do NOT have the ability to think critically about what adults are telling them.

Here, I'll type it in your style, so you might be able to comprehend it:

It is ABUSE to tell little kids
they are born sinners,
worthless, unworthy of heaven,
flawed, doomed,
guilty from birth,
and "lucky" that Jesus will save them
BUT ONLY Jesus can save them
and ONLY if they measure up.

That is emotional terrorism.
That is EMOTIONAL and MENTAL ABUSE.
That is WRONG.


YOU can believe whatever you want. STOP INDOCTRINATING SMALL CHILDREN, and we'll be just fine.

Do I want to "convert" everyone? NO. I just want you all to LEAVE THE LITTLE KIDS ALONE.
THEY can choose, when they are old enough, and given information objectively, whether or not they want to drink your kool-aid and buy in to your fear-based, shame-based attitude.

WHAT DO YOU NOT understand about that?
But, I know you won't hear me. Or answer.


edit on 10/19/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)


Read the bit I quoted above again:

trying to make those who disagree feel
anti-intellectual and abnormal and even evil.

Awww...Are your feelings hurt?

Is someone trying to make you feel that way? As you yourself say, "GET OVER IT."

You are pathetic. HOW MANY times have you implied that anti-theists are "evil"? HOW MANY times have you said they are "haters" and "persecutors"?

HOW MANY PEOPLE have you known who were emotionally scarred by the indoctrination they received as kids? HOW MANY, grandma, have you sat with and watched them weep because they were taught they were abominations and forever 'not good enough'? ANY?

The VAST majority of anti-theists are the walking wounded, carrying the scars of having been emotionally abused from their earliest memory by adults they trust telling them they are hopeless, damaged, flawed, perpetually imperfect, and bound for HELL!

Still not getting it? Hmm?? Still blinkered by your incredibly warped perspective?

How can you claim to be a "PSY" expert and NOT GET THAT?! THAT is what makes you seem irrational.

STOP telling kids that. STOP telling vulnerable adults that!



edit on 10/19/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: COLOSSAL EFFORT TO GET MY POINT ACROSS ONCE AND FOR ALL and also fix a typo caused by frustration and head-wall-banging



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

And naturally your opinions may be all wrong.

What about all the successful religious efforts?




posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Dude, I have years of experience one-on-one counseling people who were emotionally and mentally scarred by the indoctrination they recieved as little kids.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between Jesus Camp and Hamas Preschool where they teach little kids warfare. It's asinine. Barbaric. Savage. Stupid, and harmful.

I have years and years of experience in Early Childhood education, brain development, parenting practices, and how Children & Families function (to whatever degree they do or don't function). Do you?




edit on 10/19/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Boy, I can personally testify to this. Under pressure from my grandmother, my mom used to take me and my little brother to the Southern Baptist church in our neighborhood in Houston. I remember in Sunday school once, when the teacher said that if you ever lied at all, you would go to hell. I was about 6 at the time, and this scared me to death, because I knew that I had lied at some point (silly little-kid lie, like I didn't take a cookie out of the cookie jar). I came out of there crying my eyes out.

When my mom found out why I was crying, she never took us back there again, and she threatened my grandmother with never seeing her grandkids again if she ever put any more pressure on my mom regarding the church stuff.




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