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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Grandma, can you answer this? What freedoms are being threatened?
Here's an interesting article I found on the topic:
Is Religious Liberty Being Threatened in the US?
When asked to identify the greatest problem regarding religion in public life:
30 percent cite the removal of religion from public places
25 percent cite government interference with free religious practice
24 percent cite religious groups attempting to pass laws that force their beliefs on others
9 percent cite the lack of protection for smaller religious groups.
Taken together, what do these findings mean?
First, there is not a clear consensus that threats to religious liberty are a serious problem in the United States. Nearly as many worry about religion being forced on them as are concerned about government interfering with religious practice. If 70 percent of us are not worried about the removal of religion from public places, clearly this issue does not trouble the majority of Americans.
With regard to the bolded points above, the questions I would LOVE to have answered are:
1. Why should religion be in public places in the first place? And how does that threaten an INDIVIDUAL'S right to religious expression?
2. How has the government interfered in an individual's right to religious expression?
3. I get this. This is me.
4. I understand this, too. Christianity is very well protected when it comes to expression, but Wicca? Paganism? Baha’i? Satanism? Not so much.
First, there is not a clear consensus that threats to religious liberty are a serious problem in the United States. Nearly as many worry about religion being forced on them as are concerned about government interfering with religious practice.
...
If you believe that homosexual activity is forbidden by Scripture and is therefore wrong, you are clearly on the wrong side of public opinion and can expect growing restrictions on your freedom of speech and religious convictions. If you want to express your faith publicly, you can expect opposition and discrimination in some parts of our country.
If, however, you want to be salt and light in our dark and lost world, no court in the land can defeat your witness. Early Christians had far fewer religious freedoms than we enjoy today.
originally posted by: grandmakdw
There are many on ATS who openly want
to abolish all religion in the US.
They are the anti-theists,
However, as seen on ATS there has been
a huge rise in the number of anti-theists
who are openly and loudly calling for
all religion to be abolished and for
no one to be allowed to practice any
religion where anyone else might
happen to see it or be exposed to
any symbol of any religion, or any
discussion of religion or talk of religion
outside the home.
Funny thing is most anti-theists are
pro-Christmas. I think that anti-theists
should not use the word
Christmas and it is hypocritical. Also,
the word holiday as the origin is
Holy Day. To be ethically honest
anti-theists should call it
Corporate greed appreciation day.
or
Obesity enhancement day.
or
Happy Obesity and Corporate Greed Day.
(just a little pet peeve of mine when it
comes to anti-theists)
For many people perception is reality,
whether something is real or not.
originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: grandmakdw
Halloween never was a Satanic holiday,
and this is a Christian saying it,
nor was it a Wiccan holiday,
it was a Pagan holiday.
And pagans ARE religious people
and paganism IS a religion.
So the anti-theist if honest, wants
to rid the world of all religion,
should include:
all of the above plus Buddism,
Taoism, etc.
if i may...i think that what you call "anti theists" are more than likely "anti theocrats" who are under the fairly arguable impression that there are some significant theocratic movements being orchestrated - although to how much effect, i couldnt say. there are countries all over the world who are very much theocratically operative, which may be construed as inspiring or even provocative to those who hold out for a more religiously motivated america.
the bottom line is, there is a faction of uncertain size in our nation that believes the end of this world heralds the beginning of theirs, and many members of this faction wouldnt be averse to...expediting the process. which is a scary line of logic no matter how you look at it.
Anyway, Christmas, as far as I am concerned
should no longer be practiced by Christians
the way it is today. We should move the date
to the date closer to Jesus real birthday.
We should pick a Sunday so no one has to take
a day off work. We should refuse to participate
in the corporate greed and overindulgence of
what has become what you call Christmas,
but that is for another thread.
who is "we"? i hope you dont mean the government, because i suspect that would classify such an arrangement as a theocratic maneuver.
What is 'pro-Christmas'? Is there a pro- and con- side to every holiday? Are we pro-Labor Day and con-Valentines Day?
originally posted by: grandmakdw
originally posted by: notmyrealname
I always understood religion to be a personal relationship between the creator (GOD) and the individual. If this is the case, why and how is it possible to be persecuted? Keep within the boundaries of your religion and you never need to worry about persecution.
So you want people to keep within their boundaries?
Who sets the boundaries?
That sounds like anti-theist evangelistic fervor at work
with a little paranoia about theocratic takeover
(not gonna happen in the US, just not)
Keeping people in their boundaries sounds very socialist
kinda like Stalin, Mao and National Socialism, they
had very defined social boundaries.
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw
For many people perception is reality,
whether something is real or not.
Like, you mean, thinking someone threw a chair at you "simply because you are Christian"? So, the guy wouldn't have been incensed with anger enough to throw a chair at you if only ou'd never told him you were a "Christian"? And that it happened because of some 'disease' he picked up by not being Christian?
Why in the hell would it even come up in a staff meeting at all? How did that happen to begin with?
Anyway, yeah - Narrative Therapy might be a very productive treatment for you when. When you're ready, of course.
(You like the stephen lala gif, eh? Do you miss him like I do?)
originally posted by: grandmakdw
There are many on ATS who openly want
to abolish all religion in the US.
They are the anti-theists,
not just private worship
but any worship or any belief at all.
However, as seen on ATS there has been
a huge rise in the number of anti-theists
who are openly and loudly calling for
all religion to be abolished and for
no one to be allowed to practice any
religion where anyone else might
happen to see it or be exposed to
any symbol of any religion, or any
discussion of religion or talk of religion
outside the home.
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
What is 'pro-Christmas'? Is there a pro- and con- side to every holiday? Are we pro-Labor Day and con-Valentines Day?
Christmas wears me out and costs too much; likewise, Valentine's day is nothing but another expensive mid-winter pressure machine designed to SELL THINGS to CONSUMERS.
Labor Day? Meh. It's nice to have a long weekend every 6 weeks or so.
To celebrate end of summer. And the end of white shoes until Easter.
originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
originally posted by: grandmakdw
What is an anti-theist to you? A person who hates religion and wants to abolish it completely? Just for clarity.
Am I an anti-thiest?
By we, I mean Christians,
Christians should refuse to celebrate
Christmas on Dec 25th and should
refuse to participate in
Corporate Greed Appreciation Day
or
Obesity Enhancement Day.
I am not making a theocratic maneuver.
Anti-theists, people who hate
Christ and Christians, can continue
to celebrate if they want on Dec 25th, they just
should not, out of respect for their
OWN beliefs call it Christmas or a
Holiday (Holy Day) but rename it
something much more accurate;
like Corporate Greed Appreciation Day
or Obesity Enhancement Day.
or even Friends and Family Day.
Why is suggesting that Christians refuse
to celebrate Christmas in the US
perversion that it has become, be in anyway
forcing theocratic ideas on others?
And yes, he felt betrayed by me and angry
at me that I had hidden
the fact that I was a Christian from them.
Except for your pal who thought everyone knew and blew your cover. Why would you talk about it when you are in the field of PSY (as you call it)?
I didn't hide it, I just was a "good little Christian"
and kept it private with no talking about it
or any symbols that would indicate my belief system.
He felt it was pertinent
to tenure because the department
was extremely anti-theist as a whole.
He was afraid that I had tried
or would try to indoctrinate students into
becoming Christians.
originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: grandmakdw
By we, I mean Christians,
Christians should refuse to celebrate
Christmas on Dec 25th and should
refuse to participate in
Corporate Greed Appreciation Day
or
Obesity Enhancement Day.
I am not making a theocratic maneuver.
we do have those people. they call themselves "jews" and they celebrate hannukah instead of christmas.
as a side note, i feel more than a little vanity behind that finger you keep pointing at those experiencing obesity. hows that plank in your eye treating you?
Anti-theists, people who hate
Christ and Christians, can continue
to celebrate if they want on Dec 25th, they just
should not, out of respect for their
OWN beliefs call it Christmas or a
Holiday (Holy Day) but rename it
something much more accurate;
like Corporate Greed Appreciation Day
or Obesity Enhancement Day.
or even Friends and Family Day.
im still not convinced that dedicating an entire day (or an entire month, for those who really get into the holiday season) of praise and worship to someone of flawless humility and enlightenment isnt an amusing contradiction in terms. but maybe its just me.
Why is suggesting that Christians refuse
to celebrate Christmas in the US
perversion that it has become, be in anyway
forcing theocratic ideas on others?
well, i see now that it isnt theocratic. it just belies the "understanding and compassion" that christians claim to be all about. i dont see much understanding and compassion in your thread, but i see a whole lot of veiled exclusivism and condescension. "make your own holiday because you arent worthy of ours."
jesus would weep.
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw
And yes, he felt betrayed by me and angry
at me that I had hidden
the fact that I was a Christian from them.
He told you this?
Except for your pal who thought everyone knew and blew your cover. Why would you talk about it when you are in the field of PSY (as you call it)?
I didn't hide it, I just was a "good little Christian"
and kept it private with no talking about it
or any symbols that would indicate my belief system.
PSYC is looking at constellations of behaviors and repeated patterns to identify what the individual client is SUBJECTIVELY upset about.
He felt it was pertinent
to tenure because the department
was extremely anti-theist as a whole.
So - how did it even come up again? Oh, right - your blabber-mouth friend.
He was afraid that I had tried
or would try to indoctrinate students into
becoming Christians.
Not surprised. A subversive ("hiding their Christianity") teaching "Psychology" who MIGHT point to RELIGION as a remedy for emotional/mental discomfort or guidance is scary. "Sleeper cells" mean anything to you?
So anyhoo - did you get tenure?
Thanks for calling me crazy in your little jab at the end,
so subtle and so downright rude.
as for the rest of it, get a grip and a life,
why do you need to know the details of my life,
is your life that boring that you consistently
and constantly have to dig into mine over and over
on different threads.
Grow up, get a life of your own
and make it interesting so you don't have to live
vicariously through others.
By the way, it is more than perception that some governmental leaders want to have a Christian Theocracy. There's a HUGE difference in the political weight of a few ATS members' opinions measured against Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz and anyone in government who has their sites on, if not a total theocracy, then certain legislation that would further impose restrictions on the people who have made such headway recently in claiming their PERSONAL freedom. Specifically, people's right to their own bodies, their own sexuality, their own gender, their autonomy. It's already proven to be the case with abortion. The religious right doesn't like abortion and they HAVE used legislation, backed by religious opinion, to restrict a woman's right to her own body. They want to dictate how gay people are allowed to express their relationship, LEGALLY. This is more than perception.
No I did not get tenure,
yes because I admitted to being a Christian.