40% of all Americans are worried about their personal religious freedom

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: grandmakdw

I'm an atheist but I spend time defending religious freedom and expression because if we allow religion to be stifled and censored, then who's next?
I just left a thread where many were calling for religion to just be practiced in a church or at home. Not publically.

So apparently there are those here who don't like freedom, abhor free expression and desire a fascist state.

You are correct.

There are many on ATS who openly want
to abolish all religion in the US.

They are the anti-theists,
not just private worship
but any worship or any belief at all.


The vast majority of atheists could care
less if someone worships a God or not.
The majority of athesit's stand is, fine
I don't care if you believe, I don't.
They leave it at that, which is as it
should be in the US.

However, as seen on ATS there has been
a huge rise in the number of anti-theists
who are openly and loudly calling for
all religion to be abolished and for
no one to be allowed to practice any
religion where anyone else might
happen to see it or be exposed to
any symbol of any religion, or any
discussion of religion or talk of religion
outside the home.

Funny thing is most anti-theists are
pro-Christmas. I think that anti-theists
should not use the word
Christmas and it is hypocritical. Also,
the word holiday as the origin is
Holy Day. To be ethically honest
anti-theists should call it
Corporate greed appreciation day.
or
Obesity enhancement day.
or
Happy Obesity and Corporate Greed Day.
(just a little pet peeve of mine when it
comes to anti-theists)

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: DBCowboy

Someone else said not to practice in the open in front of others too. Oh yeah, it was Matthew from the Bible.

Matthew 6:1-8New King James Version

“Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.

5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

8 “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.

You took scripture out of context.
Which many anti-theists do to bolster their
corporate paranoia of a coming US
theocracy.

This scripture means,
don't brag when you do good works
don't brag when you help people
don't brag about how much your pray
don't brag about how religious you are.

It means don't brag,
it does NOT mean
don't let people know
about your faith or
hide your faith.

Great imagination though, on your part.

a reply to: grandmakdw

for once, i agree with you for the most part. extremism is hardly productive no matter what flag it stands under.

incidentally, christmas is not a christian holiday anymore than halloween is a satanic holiday. propoganda has many people confused on that front. but guess who controls the propoganda?

originally posted by: fartlordsupreme
a reply to: infolurker

who says?
the bible is vague and open to interpretation
even religious scholars (and i use the term loosely) disagree on how it should be interpreted
you could interpret it anyway you please
and chances are theres already a sect that agrees with that interpretation

you cant prove hes wrong any more than he can prove god doesnt exist

I suppose if you choose to interpret
according to anti-theist scholars
and according to the corporate
paranoia of Christians trying to
take over the world.
Then it could be misinterpreted this way.

But you are wrong on the actual interpretation
which is easy to see if you read it without
the blinders of blind paranoid rage against
Christians.

See my interpretation above, the
interpretation Christians use, not
the anti-theist interpretation of people
whose desire is to rid the world of all
religion.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: DBCowboy

It's not about punishing anyone. It's just not polite to go around pushing your beliefs into others faces that's all. If someone is interested in a religion they know where to go to find out more about it. You don't have to go around making a show of it. Besides, nobody gives a damn what you believe anyway. We all believe different things and unless someone asks me to tell them what I believe I don't usually tell them. I certainly don't get all preachy about it and yell it out on the corner or institute it into some other official setting.

Nobody is saying they don't have the right to yell about whatever they want at every random person walking by. But it can be annoying and rude depending on how it's done that's all. Some of them get a bit pushy about it too. If every religion went out and preached on every street corner about their beliefs all the time it would be pretty annoying just walking around town don't ya think???

They are peoples "Personal Private Beliefs" so why broadcast them???

Why is it acceptable to force people into not
being able to express their beliefs and have to
hide them?
I had to do that at the Universities I taught at.

I had to do that because of the story I told earlier,
which is quite true. That after 3 years at the same
Univ I was offered tenure. At that time someone
asked if I was a Christian. I said yes and had a chair
thrown at me by another professor who up until that
point liked me. He then demanded I be fired on the
spot.
I wasn't fired, but I did not get tenure because of it.

This is the consequence of making paranoid hatred
of religion so bad that to even admit one is a
Christian in some lines of work can lead to one
not getting a promotion.
This does happen, it did to me.

So is this fair to people of faith, is this how we
are to keep quiet? Because the paranoia surrounding
the mythology of the "evil" Christian who wants to
run your life and the world is so rampant?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: grandmakdw

for once, i agree with you for the most part. extremism is hardly productive no matter what flag it stands under.

incidentally, christmas is not a christian holiday anymore than halloween is a satanic holiday. propoganda has many people confused on that front. but guess who controls the propoganda?

You are right.

Halloween never was a Satanic holiday,
and this is a Christian saying it,
nor was it a Wiccan holiday,
it was a Pagan holiday.
And pagans ARE religious people
and paganism IS a religion.

So the anti-theist if honest, wants
to rid the world of all religion,
should include:
all of the above plus Buddism,
Taoism, etc.

Anyway, Christmas, as far as I am concerned
should no longer be practiced by Christians
the way it is today. We should move the date
to the date closer to Jesus real birthday.
We should pick a Sunday so no one has to take
a day off work. We should refuse to participate
in the corporate greed and overindulgence of
what has become what you call Christmas,
but that is for another thread.

But on the same note, anti-theists should not
use the words Christmas or Holiday to be
consistent with their anti-belief system
and with their evangelism of anti-theism.
Honestly, the best description of the day
as it is practiced now is
Corporate Greed Appreciation Day.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: grandmakdw

I am sure FOX news has led some into a complete hysteria over this issue.

Just as MSNBC and CNN etc have fueled
the anti-theist movement
and helped the evangelistic spread of anti-theism.

Really, stop with the cliche come backs, they are tired, old, and
show a lack of intellectual ability to make a cogent and relevant remark.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Well I suspected as much before now I'm sure... your anecdotes do not ring true.

originally posted by: notmyrealname
I always understood religion to be a personal relationship between the creator (GOD) and the individual. If this is the case, why and how is it possible to be persecuted? Keep within the boundaries of your religion and you never need to worry about persecution.

So you want people to keep within their boundaries?

Who sets the boundaries?

That sounds like anti-theist evangelistic fervor at work

with a little paranoia about theocratic takeover
(not gonna happen in the US, just not)

Keeping people in their boundaries sounds very socialist
kinda like Stalin, Mao and National Socialism, they
had very defined social boundaries.

originally posted by: fartlordsupreme
a reply to: mOjOm

because its a pyramid scheme of hate ignorance and fear
and they need to convince other people not only that this behavior is normal but that its necessary for success
and make more people and convince them of this (christmas and easter are great for this.....treats=good)
they find them at their weakest and most vulnerable and try to turn them
the more people they get the more right they are (er....loud anyway)

Who is they?

Let me see

Anti-theism is a pyramid scheme of hate, ignorance and fear


Anti-theists need to convince other people not only
their behavior the only is normal behavior but that its necessary for success
in the US today

Anti-theists make more people and convince them of this
(welfare and free phones are great for this.....treats=good)

Anti-theists find them at their weakest and most vulnerable
when they are in school where religion is completely forbidden
but anti-theism is allowed to flourish, and try to turn them
the more people they get the more right they are (er....loud anyway)

See how absolutely silly your argument is.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: grandmakdw

Well I suspected as much before now I'm sure... your anecdotes do not ring true.

I know you would think that,
but sorry to disappoint this one is quite true.

The only reason for someone to say they aren't true
is because it goes against your narrative of how life is.

But it is true! Every word.

It was a Anthropology professor who threw the chair
at me after learning I was a Christian. Before that
he and I were friends, after that he refused to speak
to me.

Lovely and tolerant anti-theist that he was.

a reply to: grandmakdw

However, as seen on ATS there has been
a huge rise in the number of anti-theists
who are openly and loudly calling for
all religion to be abolished and for
no one to be allowed to practice any
religion where anyone else might
happen to see it or be exposed to
any symbol of any religion, or any
discussion of religion or talk of religion
outside the home.

No there has not. You all Christians keep making threads spewing your judgment and vitriol and Bible passages and condemnation. You, ma'am, in particular, continue to label all non-Christian members as "haters" who call you "names".

There are several Muslim members on this board, and NONE of them are hateful. The non-theists that are regular participants have not said, "I hate you." And YOU KNOW IT! We present our case. We highlight the abuses in the name of religion (all religions). We don't complain about being marginalized or persecuted. We live in the REAL WORLD.


Lady, you know why many of us are not going to just let you cruise around being "absurd" about this whole subject?

This is A CONSPIRACY SITE.

RELIGION IS A CONSPIRACY.
You see "hate" where there is simply disagreement; and you deliberately DON'T see the facts: that there are Christians who want to make the USA a Theocracy. You can pretend it is not true all you like. It is real.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw

There are no Christian denominations in
the US I know who even want a
Christian Theocracy in the US, this is
rhetoric designed to create hatred
and division and in absolutely no
way represents reality.

two words:

Cruz
Huckabee

and a few more:
Bachmann
Brownback
Palin
... Some of the politicians involved include
Rick Perry,
Michelle Bachmann,
Sarah Palin,
Sam Brownback,
Newt Gingrich

... Maybe next time someone gets irritated enough by you to pick up a chair and aim it at your head, you should think about WHY they are so irritated by you in the first place.

*drops mic*

Why did my colleague throw a
chair at me and was irritated by me?
Because I said I was a Christian
when asked, that is why,
before that we were friendly
colleagues, before
anti-theist paranoia, which
your post is ripe with kicked in.

You are 100% wrong about each of the politicians
you mentioned, not one of them wants the US
to be a Theocracy.
That is an extremist paranoid delusion of the
anti-theist crowd, and boy have you got
paranoia written all over your post.
Whew!

So do you want all Christians to keep their mouths
shut and know their place in society? Is that what
you are advocating, or the complete annihilation
of all Christians, that sound more like what you want.

How very Stalinist and Mao of you!

a reply to: grandmakdw

Halloween never was a Satanic holiday,
and this is a Christian saying it,
nor was it a Wiccan holiday,
it was a Pagan holiday.
And pagans ARE religious people
and paganism IS a religion.

So the anti-theist if honest, wants
to rid the world of all religion,
should include:
all of the above plus Buddism,
Taoism, etc.

if i may...i think that what you call "anti theists" are more than likely "anti theocrats" who are under the fairly arguable impression that there are some significant theocratic movements being orchestrated - although to how much effect, i couldnt say. there are countries all over the world who are very much theocratically operative, which may be construed as inspiring or even provocative to those who hold out for a more religiously motivated america.

the bottom line is, there is a faction of uncertain size in our nation that believes the end of this world heralds the beginning of theirs, and many members of this faction wouldnt be averse to...expediting the process. which is a scary line of logic no matter how you look at it.

Anyway, Christmas, as far as I am concerned
should no longer be practiced by Christians
the way it is today. We should move the date
to the date closer to Jesus real birthday.
We should pick a Sunday so no one has to take
a day off work. We should refuse to participate
in the corporate greed and overindulgence of
what has become what you call Christmas,
but that is for another thread.

who is "we"? i hope you dont mean the government, because i suspect that would classify such an arrangement as a theocratic maneuver.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw

However, as seen on ATS there has been
a huge rise in the number of anti-theists
who are openly and loudly calling for
all religion to be abolished and for
no one to be allowed to practice any
religion where anyone else might
happen to see it or be exposed to
any symbol of any religion, or any
discussion of religion or talk of religion
outside the home.

No there has not. You all Christians keep making threads spewing your judgment and vitriol and Bible passages and condemnation. You, ma'am, in particular, continue to label all non-Christian members as "haters" who call you "names".

There are several Muslim members on this board, and NONE of them are hateful. The non-theists that are regular participants have not said, "I hate you." And YOU KNOW IT! We present our case. We highlight the abuses in the name of religion (all religions). We don't complain about being marginalized or persecuted. We live in the REAL WORLD.


Lady, you know why many of us are not going to just let you cruise around being "absurd" about this whole subject?

This is A CONSPIRACY SITE.

RELIGION IS A CONSPIRACY.
You see "hate" where there is simply disagreement; and you deliberately DON'T see the facts: that there are Christians who want to make the USA a Theocracy. You can pretend it is not true all you like. It is real.

Did you ever think that the anti-theists
may be extremely and corporately paranoid
over something that is NOT going to happen
in the US, never.

The Muslims on ATS complain regularly about
people hating them, as they rightly should.
As hate for the Muslims is more prevalent on ATS than
it is for Christians.

Anti-theists if honest, are calling for the abolition of:
Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Wicca
Satanism
Buddhism
Taoism
Kabbalah
Paganism
being practiced, talked about or having any expression allowed
outside of secret in home practices.

This is what Stalin and Mao worked so hard for and
is a position that they would be proud to see
the US anti-theists taking.

P.S. Love your Colbert gif, so cute!

But even

a reply to: Kali74

Well I suspected as much before now I'm sure... your anecdotes do not ring true.

But.....that anecdote was posted twice so it must be true in the poster's mind. !!!

(Actually, psychologically speaking: it's a very good clue - and example - as to the personality of one who insists on sharing such assaults with everyone. That might be the very trigger subject that has effected the outcome! A person who cannot manage to shift their worldview outside of their own perspective is socially handicapped.)

a reply to: grandmakdw

Did you look at the links I posted earlier? Or are you skeert?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: grandmakdw

Halloween never was a Satanic holiday,
and this is a Christian saying it,
nor was it a Wiccan holiday,
it was a Pagan holiday.
And pagans ARE religious people
and paganism IS a religion.

So the anti-theist if honest, wants
to rid the world of all religion,
should include:
all of the above plus Buddism,
Taoism, etc.

if i may...i think that what you call "anti theists" are more than likely "anti theocrats" who are under the fairly arguable impression that there are some significant theocratic movements being orchestrated - although to how much effect, i couldnt say.

the bottom line is, there is a faction of uncertain size that believes the end of this world heralds the beginning of theirs. which is a scary line of logic no matter how you look at it.

Well, it hasn't happened in over 2000 years
and as we see on ATS, all doomsday predictions
have failed.

So why out of fear of a few wackos,
every group has wackos,
there are far left wackos,
there are atheist wackos,
and anti-theist wackos.

Should we let the fear of a few wackos rule how we
treat the 95% of the sane?

Should one be paranoid and afraid that the 5% of wackos
will come to rule the world?
That is downright insane to worry about that, not going to
happen.

This fear of a Christian Theocracy in the US is
extreme bigotry and prejudicial paranoia about
something that is not going to happen.

There are people in the US who want to legalize
pedophilia, not going to happen.

Just because a few wackos want something doesn't mean
it is going to happen,
that is extreme paranoia at work.

a reply to: grandmakdw

This fear of a Christian Theocracy in the US is
extreme bigotry and prejudicial paranoia about
something that is not going to happen.

how many christians do you know believe in revelations? you know, the part of the bible where jesus literally comes back, takes over the entire world by divine force, and instates himself as king while pronouncing every remaining human his property (after committing what amounts to genocide via lake of fire). we all know how seriously prophecies are taken in religious communities.

if the answer is "more than half" then i wouldnt call that paranoia, i would call that ideological awareness.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Why was he irritated by me,
because I said I was a Christian
when asked, that is why,

you sure about that?

before that we were friendly
colleagues, before
anti-theist paranoia, which
your post is ripe with kicked in.

As far as you know, you were "friendly". He might have been faking.

I'm not paranoid (and you mean "rife", not "ripe.")
I see what's going on, that's all.

You are 100% wrong about each of the politicians
you mentioned, not one of them wants the US
to be a Theocracy.

So.....you didn't look at the links. Figures.

That is an extremist paranoid delusion of the
anti-theist crowd, and boy have you got
paranoia written all over your post.
Whew!

It's reality.

So do you want all Christians to keep their mouths
shut and know their place in society?

Yeah, kinda that. Keep their mouths shut about private beliefs in public, in public institutions (like SCHOOLS) and in businesses that aren't "Christian bookshops" or "Christian giftshops".

Their "place in society" is this: They are No better than anyone else, and are not entitled to behave as though they are anymore. SUCK IT UP.

Is that what you are advocating?

See above.

...or the complete annihilation
of all Christians, that sound more like what you want.

No.

How very Stalinist and Mao of you!

You truly have some bizarre thinking go on there.