40% of all Americans are worried about their personal religious freedom

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: grandmakdw

If they are forced to follow a one world religion or Sharia they will no longer have freedom of religion.

So you are saying that the people who think that
the ability to freely practice their religion are
afraid of an oppressive religion?
I disagree entirely with that premise.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Maybe SkepticOverlord and the gang can format an ATS poll asking if we feel that way...

I'd trust that poll more to be honest.



No one can take away your beliefs, not with a cage and not with death...
So it's nothing to fear.

I agree with your assertion that nothing can take away your beliefs.

What the poll is talking about is the ability to practice ones religion freely and openly.

As for ATS, this is a really weird
and self-selected group that is also world wide
and in no way
is statistically representative of the average US citizen or
the thought process of the average US citizen.
So a poll of us (yes I include myself)
would not represent what the Barna group researched.
It might be interesting but not give anywhere near accurate results.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Well, seeing as this survey was done by a pro-life, evangelical Christian group, I would question how the survey was presented, how the questions were worded, who the participants were and how they were selected.

That being said, I believe that I would fall into that 40% category, as I also am very concerned about religious freedom. I'm concerned that the federal Religious Freedom and Restoration Act is a violation of the 1st Amendment, in that Congress made a law respecting the establishment of religion.

I'm concerned that the religious are claiming privilege, that are not rights, to discriminate and that they're above civil rights laws, and as exempt from tolerance and common sense. I'm concerned that the religious want their faith taught in public schools and seek to eliminate competing scientific and historical facts from text books, that they want to impose their views through legislation and courts, public school curriculum, medical practices, insurance and social programs.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: grandmakdw

So what exactly makes you think a Evangelical Christian Organization like the Barna Group is a credible source of info regarding Religion???

I would think the obvious possible bias would be a reason to question what they have to say. But I suppose not if what they say just happens to be what you want to hear already.

Funny how every other study shows the decline in Religion across the board and yet somehow these guys just happen to find an increase in people worried about Religious Freedom??? I think someone might be making up some numbers.

The Barna Group is very very well respected among even the anti-theist researchers who know their work.

They also do research for corporations, small businesses and non-profits.

I know that most people on ATS won't believe the results because
I think the vast majority are anti-theists who don't want to
believe that the constant barrage of making fun of Christians
a sport in the media, on ATS, and in public, actually has
consequences.

I taught in University and had to hide my faith.

One time, after teaching for 3 years and no problems,
one of my colleagues found out I was a Christian
(who previously had no problems with me or I with him).

He threw a chair at me in a meeting and demanded I be
fired because I was a Christian.
I wasn't fired, but it shows I know how to hide
it at University.

Anyway, my colleagues all respected
Barna and their work, and they were definitely
anti-theist University Professors.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
If close to 50% of ALL Americans feel that religious freedom is in jeopardy in the US, what is making them feel that way?

It's not that religious freedom is being threatened, it's that religious superiority is. Let me explain.

For many years, religion - and particularly Christianity - was assumed. And safely so. More people were religious to some extent, so didn't really mind all the blurred lines (and lack of lines) between church and state. Prayer in school was not a big deal. Assuming that people were religious had merit. And most were Christians. Talking about God and being saved and so on, was second nature. Religious symbolism was everywhere, even in our government buildings, such as schools.

Today, people who historically have been disapproved of by the religious community (LGBT people and those of other religions) have been gaining their rights to be treated equally under the law, many times citing the separation between church and state. That separation (and the need for it) has become more and more clear.

Also, many have left religion (specifically Christianity) and people of other religions have moved here, not to mention other religions and philosophies (like Judaism, Islam, Scientology, Buddhism) have become more popular with the people who live here. New agers appeared with their own form of Christianity.

Today, we have a true melting pot of religion, as well as race, culture and philosophy. It's not "safe" to assume that anyone you meet is a Christian. It's not safe to assume they are religious at all. Saying "God Bless You" to someone is as likely to get a sneer as a smile, because it's seen as an insult to assume.

I TOTALLY understand why people feel their "religious freedom" is threatened. The freedom they once assumed, as the majority mindset in the country, is being challenged, and with good reason. We are getting back to the basics of the meaning of a secular government.

Religious expression is guaranteed by the first amendment. That simply means one can choose their religion, their beliefs, and their expression of it. AS LONG AS it doesn't impose on someone else's rights. Much of what religious people are fearing IS happening. They are being restricted, and rightly so. EVERY one of our freedoms has restrictions. We live in a society, so your rights have to balance with mine.

I invite you to listen to this PODcast thread - or at least some of it. My Rights VS Your Rights. It's pretty great.

But as long as people have the freedom to choose their religion, go to church, worship, and not have other religions imposed on them, they've GOT freedom of religion. What they don't have, and NEVER should have had, is the right to use their religion to deny others their rights or make laws that everyone has to abide by.

After reading the thread, I want to add that I am also concerned about religious freedom. Religious people (especially the far-right religio-political cult) are involved in a concerted effort to encroach further into the government and to have more control over the behavior of individuals. The people will not stand for this.

a reply to: windword

Exactly.

Of course a pushy church-group is going to call their friends, tell them they should be "scared", and then ask them if they're "scared" based on what they've been told by Pushy Church-group!! Another ridiculous thread is just what we need, eh?

The GOP candidates are milking that cow for all its worth - insisting that "religion" is in danger. They are the ones who WANT a Christian Theocracy (as you know), and are afraid they won't be getting one. Boo Effing Hoo. They need to get over themselves! ! They aren't "put upon", no matter how hard they try to make it seem so. They aren't "losing" ANYTHING except their perceived "right" to abuse others.

Yet of the Dem candidates, not a ONE of them has even brought up religion - see, those of us on the left don't care if Pushy Church Group no longer gets to feel and act "superior". They are free to be as bigoted and ignorant as they choose, IN PRIVATE and in Pushy Church.

NOT in county clerk offices, or abortion clinics, or schools.

If they're so bloody "afraid", maybe they should rein in their loudmouth politicians, slap some sense into them, and get with the 21st CENTURY.

Gah.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: windword

Exactly.

Of course a pushy church-group is going to call their friends, tell them they should be "scared", and then ask them if they're "scared" based on what they've been told by Pushy Church-group!! Another ridiculous thread is just what we need, eh?

The GOP candidates are milking that cow for all its worth - insisting that "religion" is in danger. They are the ones who WANT a Christian Theocracy (as you know), and are afraid they won't be getting one. Boo Effing Hoo. They need to get over themselves! ! They aren't "put upon", no matter how hard they try to make it seem so. They aren't "losing" ANYTHING except their perceived "right" to abuse others.

Yet of the Dem candidates, not a ONE of them has even brought up religion - see, those of us on the left don't care if Pushy Church Group no longer gets to feel and act "superior". They are free to be as bigoted and ignorant as they choose, IN PRIVATE and in Pushy Church.

NOT in county clerk offices, or abortion clinics, or schools.

If they're so bloody "afraid", maybe they should rein in their loudmouth politicians, slap some sense into them, and get with the 21st CENTURY.

Gah.

Not a single candidate in the GOP
wants a Christian Theocracy.
That is a fantasy, and I assume you
are not in the US with the language
and sentence structure you are using.

This is fear mongering by the far left anti-theists
and a collective paranoid delusion.

There are no Christian denominations in
the US I know who even want a
Christian Theocracy in the US, this is
rhetoric designed to create hatred
and division and in absolutely no
way represents reality.

It may be the fear of anti-theists
but not reality in any way shape
or form, you guys just spout it
to each other so often you believe
your own paranoia. But there is zero
empirical evidence to support this
collective paranoid delusion.

a reply to: grandmakdw

There are no Christian denominations in
the US I know who even want a
Christian Theocracy in the US, this is
rhetoric designed to create hatred
and division and in absolutely no
way represents reality.

two words:

Cruz
Huckabee

and a few more:
Bachmann
Brownback
Palin

Active Theocrats: The New Apostolic Reformation and The Seven Mountain Domionists

(excerpted from the above) they are the Extreme Far-Right - usually identified as Evangelicals, but not exactly the same - who are trying to impose their religion onto the whole country and its laws. They admit it themselves. What are their "Seven Mountains" to "Dominate"?
Government
Business
Arts & Entertainment
Media
Education
Family
and Religion.

These are the so-called "Charismatic Dominionists" - further explained in this article: The Rise of Charismatic Dominionism (Updated) and they are all over the place. They "claim" to have 400 million followers worldwide. Some of the politicians involved include
Rick Perry,
Michelle Bachmann,
Sarah Palin,
Sam Brownback,
Newt Gingrich

- among others, and they work with and under the scattered "Apostles" and Pastors of the churches that are inciting this "revolution" (more like a Devolution, in my opinion) to make the USA a Theocratic Oligarchy. They're not messing around, either.

Although some think the Religious Right is dying - that is not quite the case.

The demise of the Religious Right is being announced with great fanfare in the media. It is an announcement that has been made repeatedly over the decades and, without fail, has been wrong every time.

It is difficult to juxtapose this image of the demise of the Religious Rights with the current reality in America - the growing popularity of spiritual warfare networks, spiritual mapping, the belief in generational curses, demon deliverance centers, health centers based on faith healing, and faith-based initiatives which have poured public funds into the hands of these spiritual warriors. A prominent religious leader can be labeled as moderate or mainstream despite advocating beliefs that only a few years ago would have been considered marginal.

Open demonization of groups in our society is increasing in intensity and militant language is common.

New Apostolic Reformation . At that wiki page you can learn more about them, who they - and their "Apostles" - are, and what they are doing.

Monitoring a Growing Dominionist Movement
How is Dominionism Getting into Politics? Meet the Apostles and Prophets of the NAR

The NAR is one of the current forces behind the radicalization of the Religious Right, and in turn, U.S. politics. NAR leaders teach a dualistic worldview in which all other religions and philosophies, including secular democracy, are considered controlled by demonic entities in a cosmic battle with Christianity.

The late Rousas Rushdoony, father of Christian Reconstructionism wrote the tome and laid the foundations for infusing Dominion Theology into American politics, but it is Charismatic Dominionists who have had the greater success in drawing millions of followers in the U.S. and worldwide.

They are leaders on social issues, like fighting abortion and gay rights, but they also emphasize a mandate to take “dominion” over all of the “Seven Mountains” or cultural power centers – arts, business, education, family, government, media, and religion.

You assume I'm not in the US? I'm perfectly literate, grandma. I am a writer. If you don't like my self-expression, my style, my voice, then tough titties. I won't stoop to insult your "style" - going ad hominem is always your nifty "trick" when you haven't got a leg to stand on. Maybe next time someone gets irritated enough by you to pick up a chair and aim it at your head, you should think about WHY they are so irritated by you in the first place.

*drops mic*

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: muse7
What is making them feel that way?

Fox News
Breitbart
World Net Daily

and the other numerous right wing infotainment websites and TV channels that make money and ratings by scaring people.

40% of ALL US Citizens do not watch Fox or read Breitbart or WND.

That is an old tired cliche line you threw out. Try and think beyond the old tired cliche's and come up with a reasoned and intelligent response that appears you actually gave the matter real thought.

It's probably close actually. According to Gallup, about 38% of Americans identify as Conservative (the largest ideological group in the US). Then according to Pew of consistently Conservatives about 47% named FOX news as their number one source of news, 31% of mostly Conservative, 8% mixed, and 5% of mostly Liberal. The key findings of another report from Pew about the state of the media shows that 39% of Americans got their news online with 15% getting their news from family and friends on social media.

A google search for top Conservatives news sources paints a pretty consistent picture. FOX, Breitbart, WND all place in the top 15 in each one.

Link
Link
Link

The Evangelicals Engaged In Spiritual Warfare

Rachel Tabachnick, who researches the political impact of the religious right, join[ed] Terry Gross for a discussion about the growing movement and its influence and connections in the political world.

Tabachnick says the movement currently works with a variety of politicians and has a presence in all 50 states. It also has very strong opinions about the direction it wants the country to take.

For the past several years, she says, the NAR has run a campaign to reclaim what it calls the "seven mountains of culture" from demonic influence. The "mountains" are arts and entertainment; business; family; government; media; religion; and education.

"They teach quite literally that these 'mountains' have fallen under the control of demonic influences in society," says Tabachnick. "And therefore, they must reclaim them for God in order to bring about the kingdom of God on Earth. ...

The apostles teach what's called 'strategic level spiritual warfare' [because they believe that the] reason why there is sin and corruption and poverty on the Earth is because the Earth is controlled by a hierarchy of demons under the authority of Satan. So they teach not just evangelizing souls one by one, as we're accustomed to hearing about. They teach that they will go into a geographic region or a people group and conduct spiritual-warfare activities in order to remove the demons from the entire population. This is what they're doing that's quite fundamentally different than other evangelical groups."

Bat-guano Crazy.


About Rafael Cruz's surrogate activity on behalf of Ted (wall street journal article)

Mr. Cruz’s path to the nomination, still considered by many to be a long shot, hinges in part on his ability to win a base of support among evangelical conservatives. He signaled his determination to win that constituency by kicking off his campaign at Liberty University, a Christian school founded by Jerry Falwell.
Mr. Cruz is competing for evangelical support against former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee , former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum and others.

Grandma, can you answer this? What freedoms are being threatened?

Here's an interesting article I found on the topic:

Is Religious Liberty Being Threatened in the US?

When asked to identify the greatest problem regarding religion in public life:

30 percent cite the removal of religion from public places
25 percent cite government interference with free religious practice
24 percent cite religious groups attempting to pass laws that force their beliefs on others
9 percent cite the lack of protection for smaller religious groups.

Taken together, what do these findings mean?

First, there is not a clear consensus that threats to religious liberty are a serious problem in the United States. Nearly as many worry about religion being forced on them as are concerned about government interfering with religious practice. If 70 percent of us are not worried about the removal of religion from public places, clearly this issue does not trouble the majority of Americans.

With regard to the bolded points above, the questions I would LOVE to have answered are:

1. Why should religion be in public places in the first place? And how does that threaten an INDIVIDUAL'S right to religious expression?

2. How has the government interfered in an individual's right to religious expression?

3. I get this. This is me.

4. I understand this, too. Christianity is very well protected when it comes to expression, but Wicca? Paganism? Baha’i? Satanism? Not so much.

First, there is not a clear consensus that threats to religious liberty are a serious problem in the United States. Nearly as many worry about religion being forced on them as are concerned about government interfering with religious practice.
...
If you believe that homosexual activity is forbidden by Scripture and is therefore wrong, you are clearly on the wrong side of public opinion and can expect growing restrictions on your freedom of speech and religious convictions. If you want to express your faith publicly, you can expect opposition and discrimination in some parts of our country.

If, however, you want to be salt and light in our dark and lost world, no court in the land can defeat your witness. Early Christians had far fewer religious freedoms than we enjoy today.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

...then tough titties.

Hehehe.

Haven't heard that for years.

Grandma (and any others in denial): check this out:

“Nothing is more important in the next 18 months than that the body of Christ rise up and that Christians stand up, that pastors stand up and lead,” Cruz said.

“In this last election, 54 million evangelical Christians stayed home. If we can simply bring Christians to the polls – is it any wonder we have the government we have – we have the leaders we have if believers stay home and leave electing our leaders to unbelievers.

We get exactly what we deserve and nothing is more important that having people of faith stand up and just vote our values, vote biblical values and that’s how we turn the country around.”

In other words, he wants millions of evangelical Christians to go and vote for politicians who would basically turn this country into a theocracy.

Read more at: www.forwardprogressives.com...

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

(Hehehe!! )

a reply to: grandmakdw

There are no Christian denominations in
the US I know who even want a
Christian Theocracy in the US, this is
rhetoric designed to create hatred
and division and in absolutely no
way represents reality.

the nature of christianity (or most major religions today, for that matter) is that there is a war in progress between two or more parties based on their spiritual affiliations. this implies that, should the war conclude, there will be an "ultimate" spiritual party in power, and that power will constitute both spiritual AND political weight. are you honestly telling me that the return of the "king of kings" isnt intended to establish an actual monarchy by authority of the almighty?

if there isnt a theocracy in the works, then there should be no war and there should be no conflict. quite the opposite of what we see today.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

In this last election, 54 million evangelical Christians stayed home.

I'd like to know his source for this drivel.

No doubt he got it from www.PulledOutOfMyArse.com

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I don't know, but he can't seem to keep his numbers straight.

Pastor Rafael Cruz: 48 Million Evangelical Christians did not vote in the last election

"I’ll tell you. I know the constitution very well. I know the Declaration very well. Separation of Church and State is not in either one of them"

Source

Oh, Lord!

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

The statistics said that in the United States there were approximately 65 million evangelical Christians. And of those only 50% were registered voters. And of the 50% that were registered to vote, only 50% voted in the last election.



That means 3 out of 4 evangelical Christians stayed at home. That’s 48 million evangelical Christians.

It's actually 16.25 million... Seeing as only half are registered.

Off the mark by 32 million...




Oh Lord is right.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

The statistics said that in the United States there were approximately 65 million evangelical Christians. And of those only 50% were registered voters. And of the 50% that were registered to vote, only 50% voted in the last election.



That means 3 out of 4 evangelical Christians stayed at home. That’s 48 million evangelical Christians.

It's actually 16.25 million... Seeing as only half are registered.

Off the mark by 32 million...




Oh Lord is right.

i dont see how that belies the point benevolent heretic was attempting to make.

which, if i understand correctly, is that this poll is garbage propaganda custom made for the same people who dig out their credit cards every time they see a televangelist program.

a reply to: TzarChasm

It doesn't belie the point...

And nor was it intended to.


It was to validate what Benevolent said.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

ah ok. sorry for the misunderstanding, thanks for clarifying.