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Christians, have you ever considered you might be on the wrong side?

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posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:11 AM
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a reply to: vincentdaniel7

This is my whole point though... he wasn't talking to something inside himself... He wasn't talking to anyone.

He was wasting away in the desert trying to figure himself out...

Lets look at the earliest version of the story...

11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him

That's about it in Mark... the story clearly evolved because both of the other synoptic gospels rely heavily on Mark...

All it says is "tempted by satan" there was no conversation present...

in the Later versions (Mat/Luke) the writer gets a little more creative with the story...



Recall that the Devil offered Jesus worldwide rulership in return for an act of worship. (Matthew 4:8, 9) This offer would have been meaningless if Satan were not real. Furthermore, Jesus did not question Satan’s claim to such impressive authority.


He did say "this isn't his world"... Ironically enough the gnostic writers believed that the OT god was actually the devil and this was his world... similar to what Jesus said


After Jesus rejected the temptations, the Devil “departed from him until another convenient time.” (Luke 4:13) Does Satan in this case seem like a quality of evil or, rather, a persistent, determined adversary?


No... it sounds like the moment had passed

after he got over his issues in the wilderness free from distraction he returned to the world


Notice that “angels came and began to minister” to Jesus. (Matthew 4:11) Were those angels actual spirit persons, providing encouragement and practical assistance to Jesus? Clearly so. Why, then, should we assume that Satan was something other than an actual spirit being?


I don't really have any belief in angels either... inspiration from above perhaps, but I don't believe they go around whispering in peoples ears either... And why would they have to minister to Jesus in the first place, he is the son of God

Kinda sounds like narrative wouldn't you say? John was huge on his narrative





posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:14 AM
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a reply to: vincentdaniel7


When you say that the questions were referring to Jesus own personal demons inside of him I cannot accept that because Jesus was made perfect and would not ever give into temptation.
When you say that the questions were referring to Jesus own personal demons inside of him I cannot accept that because Jesus was made perfect and would not ever give into temptation.


its a figure of speech man...

not real demons LOL




posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:17 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Actually no they didn't argue at all...

There were three questions... all of which refer to his own personal demons in struggling with the fact that he was the son of God...


I just gave you a giant post on how we know that Satan is a real person both Old Testament and from


The references you used to satan were not mentioning a real entity... Job is a story book like I said, it has a moral to it, that being "trust in God"


And all I did to that scripture was add parentheses I did not change the words I don't know about your King James Version of the Bible but I know that when I study the Greek language it says evil ONE.


Why would it?

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

its a complete sentence... adding "One" at the end would just end up being nonsense...


All I did was put parentheses what is the crime in that?


Well you're adding something that isn't there, of course that also depends on the translation... its split down the middle for the most part... but saying the whole world lies in the wicked one personifies the idea of wickedness and makes said entity responsible for something that is completely on us... not a fallen angel here to tempt the world

No crime... Just unnecessary


KEEP YOUR SENSES, BE WATCHFUL!

YOUR ADVERSARY, THE DEVIL,

WALKS ABOUT LIKE A ROARING LION,

SEEKING TO DEVOUR SOMEONE.


Right... materialism

Which infests the world, and again is solely our issue... Not the devil



[1John 5:19]

[ οἴδαμεν ] WE HAVE KNOWN [ ὅτι ] THAT
[ ἐκ ] OUT OF
[ τοῦ ] THE [ θεοῦ ] GOD [ ἐσμέν ], WE ARE,
[ καὶ ] AND [ ὁ ] THE [ κόσμος ] WORLD
[ ὅλος ] WHOLE [ ἐν ] IN [ τῷ ] THE
[ πονηρῷ ] WICKED ONE [ κεῖται.] IS LYING.



But just because I have this this is not my only deciding factor.
edit on 10/17/2015 by vincentdaniel7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/17/2015 by vincentdaniel7 because: Correction



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:23 AM
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a reply to: vincentdaniel7

the... Wicked... One... Is... US... NOT... an... Actual... entity...

LOL

Materialism, selfishness, deceit... its a condition of the heart...

One that does not have love In it...




posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:31 AM
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a reply to: vincentdaniel7

by the way

biblehub.com...

it doesn't say "wicked one"... specifically... it just means "bad" for the most part

so in the case we were speaking of the KJV would probably be more accurate in using "wickedness"




posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:32 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

the... Wicked... One... Is... US... NOT... an... Actual... entity...

LOL

Materialism, selfishness, deceit... its a condition of the heart...

One that does not have love In it...



I agree that he in the background he influences the world,

SO WE HAVE LEARNED HIS QUALITIES

Materialism, selfishness, deceit... its a condition of the heart...

One that does not have love In it...and if we're not careful will also be the condition of our heart

One that does not have love In it...

See I think it helps me to analyze my enemy knowing that he is a real person so we can steer away from his deceitful tactic.

If I was a military general I would be much more successful knowing my real enemy.

That way I could figure him out and steer clear from his devices he so successfully uses on humanity

This will help me to defeat him and not cultivate what he wants me to cultivate

Materialism, selfishness, deceit... the condition of the heart...

One that does not have love In it...
edit on 10/17/2015 by vincentdaniel7 because: Adjust



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:41 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

by the way

biblehub.com...

it doesn't say "wicked one"... specifically... it just means "bad" for the most part

so in the case we were speaking of the KJV would probably be more accurate in using "wickedness"




Well the reason why I like to use the other one is because clarifies with what, I believe ARE REAL CONVERSATIONS,
> 1ST with the Old Testament God and ,
> 2ND with his SON Jesus Christ.

AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGIN TO ANALYZE (REVELATIONS to John) THAT TALKS ABOUT JESUS PHYSICALLY BATTLING WITH SATAN AND HURLING HIM AND HIS POSE
DOWN TO THE EARTH THAT WOULD TAKE MAYBE A WEEK OF THREADS ON THAT SUBJECT


edit on 10/17/2015 by vincentdaniel7 because: Clarify



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: vincentdaniel7


I agree that he in the background he influences the world,



Nooo man!! LOL

I didn't say that... I said the exact opposite

these are attributes of the human heart, not traits of Satan the Fallen angel...

When someone acts in selfishness, it is not Satan hanging around in the back ground... its said persons OWN desires getting the best of them...




posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:44 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7


I agree that he in the background he influences the world,



Nooo man!! LOL

I didn't say that... I said the exact opposite

these are attributes of the human heart, not traits of Satan the Fallen angel...

When someone acts in selfishness, it is not Satan hanging around in the back ground... its said persons OWN desires getting the best of them...



No I understand what you meant I just kind of messed up that first part of my statement its all good


And I definitely agree that these own desires get the best of them

[James 1 vrs 13-15]

13. When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. 
14.  But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire.
 
15. Then the desire, when it has become fertile,gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death.


edit on 10/17/2015 by vincentdaniel7 because: Clarify



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:45 AM
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a reply to: vincentdaniel7


AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGIN TO ANALYZE (REVELATIONS to John) THAT TALKS ABOUT JESUS PHYSICALLY BATTLING WITH SATAN AND HURLING HIM AND HIS POSE
DOWN TO THE EARTH THAT WOULD TAKE MAYBE A WEEK OF THREADS ON THAT SUBJECT


ye don't need to yell... really

Why would we analyze revelation?

The book wasn't even included in the original canon of the bible until 400 some odd years later... it was considered heretical... And apocalyptic writing was a trend in the early few centuries of the "Christianity"... it's vague for a reason, and basically designed to scare people... the revelation of John wasn't from Jesus... and highly likely it wasn't written by John in any case




posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:52 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7


AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGIN TO ANALYZE (REVELATIONS to John) THAT TALKS ABOUT JESUS PHYSICALLY BATTLING WITH SATAN AND HURLING HIM AND HIS POSE
DOWN TO THE EARTH THAT WOULD TAKE MAYBE A WEEK OF THREADS ON THAT SUBJECT


ye don't need to yell... really

Why would we analyze revelation?

The book wasn't even included in the original canon of the bible until 400 some odd years later... it was considered heretical... And apocalyptic writing was a trend in the early few centuries of the "Christianity"... it's vague for a reason, and basically designed to scare people... the revelation of John wasn't from Jesus... and highly likely it wasn't written by John in any case



I have heard that way of thinking before.

but now I am too exhausted to address it.

We should probably agree to disagree on that subject sorry I brought it up.




posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:55 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7


When you say that the questions were referring to Jesus own personal demons inside of him I cannot accept that because Jesus was made perfect and would not ever give into temptation.
When you say that the questions were referring to Jesus own personal demons inside of him I cannot accept that because Jesus was made perfect and would not ever give into temptation.


its a figure of speech man...

not real demons LOL



I didn't think you meant literal demons.

Because many people refer to demons as just their own imperfection

And I don't believe Jesus had any.



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 01:57 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7


AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGIN TO ANALYZE (REVELATIONS to John) THAT TALKS ABOUT JESUS PHYSICALLY BATTLING WITH SATAN AND HURLING HIM AND HIS POSE
DOWN TO THE EARTH THAT WOULD TAKE MAYBE A WEEK OF THREADS ON THAT SUBJECT


ye don't need to yell... really

Why would we analyze revelation?

The book wasn't even included in the original canon of the bible until 400 some odd years later... it was considered heretical... And apocalyptic writing was a trend in the early few centuries of the "Christianity"... it's vague for a reason, and basically designed to scare people... the revelation of John wasn't from Jesus... and highly likely it wasn't written by John in any case



And please don't think that I am yelling just because I use cap lock on some things it's only because I do not have a highlighter and I would love to highlight but I don't have one.



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 02:00 AM
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a reply to: vincentdaniel7

try using bold...

type [b.] content [/b.]

minus the periods... Like this

Or this substitute the B for a U...

Italics is I

pisses people off when you caps lock everything... Mods don't like it either


edit on 22-10-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 02:01 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

This is my whole point though... he wasn't talking to something inside himself... He wasn't talking to anyone.

He was wasting away in the desert trying to figure himself out...

Lets look at the earliest version of the story...

11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him

That's about it in Mark... the story clearly evolved because both of the other synoptic gospels rely heavily on Mark...

All it says is "tempted by satan" there was no conversation present...

in the Later versions (Mat/Luke) the writer gets a little more creative with the story...



Recall that the Devil offered Jesus worldwide rulership in return for an act of worship. (Matthew 4:8, 9) This offer would have been meaningless if Satan were not real. Furthermore, Jesus did not question Satan’s claim to such impressive authority.


He did say "this isn't his world"... Ironically enough the gnostic writers believed that the OT god was actually the devil and this was his world... similar to what Jesus said


After Jesus rejected the temptations, the Devil “departed from him until another convenient time.” (Luke 4:13) Does Satan in this case seem like a quality of evil or, rather, a persistent, determined adversary?


No... it sounds like the moment had passed

after he got over his issues in the wilderness free from distraction he returned to the world


Notice that “angels came and began to minister” to Jesus. (Matthew 4:11) Were those angels actual spirit persons, providing encouragement and practical assistance to Jesus? Clearly so. Why, then, should we assume that Satan was something other than an actual spirit being?


I don't really have any belief in angels either... inspiration from above perhaps, but I don't believe they go around whispering in peoples ears either... And why would they have to minister to Jesus in the first place, he is the son of God

Kinda sounds like narrative wouldn't you say? John was huge on his narrative



Don't forget being MINISTER TO means more than that so if Jesus wanted his disciples to take over the preaching work then that would be called ministering to Jesus it's also used as serving Jesus purpose or God's purpose or someone else's purpose like working for the cause.


[[ 2nd Timothy 3 ; 14 through 17 ]]

14.You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them

15.and that from infancy you have known the holy writings,m which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

16. All Scripture is inspired of Godo and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,a for disciplining in righteousness,

17. so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Including MATTHEW and LUKE

edit on 10/17/2015 by vincentdaniel7 because: Clarify



posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 02:06 AM
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a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Time for an Ironic interlude...




posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 02:12 AM
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a reply to: vincentdaniel7


16. All Scripture is inspired of Godo and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,a for disciplining in righteousness,

17. so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Including MATTHEW and LUKE



Well first... Not a fan of Pauls writing...

And Paul isn't talking about books that didn't exist there bud... lol

In any case, IF all scripture is inspired... they would have left a stack of other books in the final edition of "the bible"




posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 02:14 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Time for an Ironic interlude...




THANKS FOR THAT

YOU ARE A PRITTY COOL GUY.




posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 02:19 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7


16. All Scripture is inspired of Godo and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,a for disciplining in righteousness,

17. so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Including MATTHEW and LUKE



Well first... Not a fan of Pauls writing...

And Paul isn't talking about books that didn't exist there bud... lol

In any case, IF all scripture is inspired... they would have left a stack of other books in the final edition of "the bible"



Thanks for all the food for thought

My wife, or U could say my mom is complaining that I am not asleep yet, and I have to go to work early tomorrow.




posted on Oct, 22 2015 @ 02:20 AM
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originally posted by: vincentdaniel7

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Time for an Ironic interlude...




THANKS FOR THAT

YOU ARE A PRITTY COOL GUY.



Cool cat actually... you best get to bed or you'll be sleepin on the couch!


edit on 22-10-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



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