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Serious question for Sanders supporters.

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posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 05:06 PM
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I want to say on the onset that I am NOT a conservative, I am an independent and lean towards the democrats.And I am not asking this to inflame his supporters or demean him. But I honestly want to know, how is Bernie Sanders going to pay for socializing the country? And please don't say by taxing the rich. One of the first things you learn in political science is that taxing the rich is only marginally efficient because they are such a small segment of our society. You can tax the bejesus out of them but the revenue stream is not going to be enough to transform this country into a socialist paradise because they are only 1 percent of the population. And also,when the socialists won a few years ago, they did try that in France and the rich simply moved away in droves.

We can have our socialism alright, as long as you don't mind paying over half your income in taxes. And here lies another issue, even if we do THAT, our average wages in this country are so low that it won't be enough to really to do as much as Mr Sanders wants to do.


Then there is one last detail, we are a country that worships wealth and greed, I seriously don't think we have the level of altruism in our society to make socialism work here. People may loathe the rich, but most of us want to BE rich. Most people are far too selfish at this point to sacrifice for others. And that is a shame and its something we have to work on as a society, but its reality.


IMHO we don't have to get rid of capitalism, we just need to regulate it and engineer it to work for more than one percent of the people.

That being said, I do agree that we need living wages, affordable college and HOPE for the future. And we need to protect our environment.

I would love to have the country Mr Sanders envisions, but utopia comes with a hefty price tag, how do we pay for it? Show me the details and I will sign on, otherwise I am a skeptic.
edit on 17-10-2015 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 05:14 PM
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Well for starters he said he wants to pay for public colleges and universities being tuition free by taxing wall street so there's that. Beyond that, I'm sure a more equitable tax code and the very likely expansion of taxable marijauna sales could probably do a lot of good. Oh yeah, he also mentioned a works program to rebuild our infrastructure. Generating jobs and supporting education could probably take us far in the long run. I am no expert in Bernie's policy but its much more feasible then it might seem. Our system is inherenty unbalanced, unsustainable and inequitable. A shift back towards balance is well within reach.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 05:23 PM
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a reply to: TheTigerOfLedges

I know there was an idea floating around about a transaction tax, and it was very low, only a couple pennies per transaction, but because there are so many transactions daily, it will generate a fair amount of revenue. The banks do it to us in the form of ATM fees, and it seems to be pretty lucrative for them, so maybe we should borrow their idea. It's better to initiate systemic taxes than to tax individuals, probably a lot more sustainable.
edit on 17-10-2015 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 05:36 PM
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a reply to: openminded2011

Single Payer Insurance should lower our medical expenses and do a better job at regulating the costs of medical procedures.

We pay more for health care then any other nation in the world, so it's simply a matter of how we pay for it since we effectively are already paying for it.

College Education is funded by a small transaction tax on Wall Street that will add up quickly due to the number of daily transactions.

I believe he is also a proponent of decreased military spending, and eliminating the huge profits from private military contracts, which historically are steeped in Nepotism and Quid-Pro-Quo deals.

I believe he actually has a plan on how to pay for his programs. It's more then empty rhetoric. But he would need a consenting Congress and Senate to accomplish much of anything.


edit on 17-10-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

Your last point is a good one and thats another thing that I am concerned about. We have seen how the congress has "worked" with Obama, can anyone even imagine how opposed they would be to Sanders? Even if he does get elected, he is going to face an entrenched congress and senate, possibly with republican majorities in both. I cant imagine how that is going to work.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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originally posted by: openminded2011
a reply to: Isurrender73

Your last point is a good one and thats another thing that I am concerned about. We have seen how the congress has "worked" with Obama, can anyone even imagine how opposed they would be to Sanders? Even if he does get elected, he is going to face an entrenched congress and senate, possibly with republican majorities in both. I cant imagine how that is going to work.


I agree completely. It's going to take a miracle, or at least something like a miracle to change anything.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 06:16 PM
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This chart was made as a response to the WSJ hit piece about the cost of Bernie's plans for the economy by Bernie's campaign however Bernie hasn't yet released a concrete economic plan yet.



When Bernie does rallies and interviews etc... he usually gets in a word about needing a better Congress. When he says "political revolution" he isn't referring just to electing him, but to take what people are doing in their volunteer work for his campaign to the local and State level.

He's also not beholden to any corporation or banks for fundraising dollars, the people have shown to be a formidable force in raising enough money to run an election. So if he wins he can actually call Congress people and their donors out and say exactly why things are gummed up.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 06:16 PM
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originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: openminded2011
a reply to: Isurrender73

Your last point is a good one and thats another thing that I am concerned about. We have seen how the congress has "worked" with Obama, can anyone even imagine how opposed they would be to Sanders? Even if he does get elected, he is going to face an entrenched congress and senate, possibly with republican majorities in both. I cant imagine how that is going to work.


I agree completely. It's going to take a miracle, or at least something like a miracle to change anything.


Considering that DC is full of revolving door Corporate and Banking Politicians that cater to only Wall Street and CEO bonuses, it will indeed take a miracle.

They never heard of the Constitution where the people of this country comes first, not they and their cronies pockets

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 06:33 PM
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originally posted by: openminded2011
I want to say on the onset that I am NOT a conservative, I am an independent and lean towards the democrats.And I am not asking this to inflame his supporters or demean him.


Isn't it interesting how everyone has to walk on eggshells in criticizing the left's latest cult leader, but mockery and criticism of Republican candidates goes on un-fettered? Admit it, you were afraid of being flamed out of the thread because this forum is full of hypocrites.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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originally posted by: TheTigerOfLedges
Well for starters he said he wants to pay for public colleges and universities being tuition free by taxing wall street so there's that. Beyond that, I'm sure a more equitable tax code and the very likely expansion of taxable marijauna sales could probably do a lot of good. Oh yeah, he also mentioned a works program to rebuild our infrastructure.


What does any of this mean? What it means is throw more money at it.



Generating jobs and supporting education could probably take us far in the long run. I am no expert in Bernie's policy but its much more feasible then it might seem.


Because socialism is know for "generating jobs". How is education not supported? You think throwing ever increasing amounts of money at problems will solve them? Money you have to take by force from the people you find to be undesirable?


Our system is inherenty unbalanced, unsustainable and inequitable. A shift back towards balance is well within reach.


Life is inherently unbalanced. Your attempts to legislate fairness will result in tyranny.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: TheBulk

Or maybe the OP is just more polite than the rest of us? Have you read the internet lately?



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74


When Bernie does rallies and interviews etc... he usually gets in a word about needing a better Congress.



And what you both mean by that is a congress without dissent. You folks are scary.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: TheBulk

Or maybe the OP is just more polite than the rest of us? Have you read the internet lately?


This forum is rife with mockery of Republicans and nobody apologizes for it. It's just very telling that he feels the need to here (and let everyone know hes not one of the hated conservatives), in order to avoid being flamed and labeled.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 06:40 PM
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a reply to: TheBulk

Aww are you offended?

Sanders gets plenty of heat and the Gop gets defended all the time.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: TheBulk

Aww are you offended?

Sanders gets plenty of heat and the Gop gets defended all the time.


You are (unsurprisingly), completely missing the point.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 06:50 PM
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a reply to: TheBulk

What do you think we have now? Even when Congress is fighting among each other they're all still protecting the buying of the political process. Encouraging people to seek out candidates that will take no corporate donors pledges and volunteer and donate themselves, get involved with the political process and take it back from the billionaires is exactly how we regain a Congress that will dissent... that will act as they should which is beholden the people that voted them into office, not making a bunch of promises and spouting a bunch of decisive rhetoric over things that shouldn't be in the political realm to begin with and then only representing their top donors.

And by the way, drop the victim act... all sides get bashed on these forums and everywhere else.
edit on 10/17/2015 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 07:05 PM
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a reply to: openminded2011

It's really not as impossible as you may think.

When it comes to healthcare, adopting a universal, not-for-profit, single-payer system should actually be cheaper and better than what we're doing now.

Free public college, universal pre-K and lowering college interest rates can be paid for with a Wall St. transaction tax on speculators.

Social Security can be improved and made solvent through 2060 just by removing the wage cap on SS taxes.

Instituting a $15 minimum wage, coupled with renegotiated trade pacts and a national infrastructure jobs program, will generate new revenue and fixing the tax code with respect to capital gains and ending offshore tax evasion will generate even more.

Millions, if not billions, more will be generated by legalizing and taxing marijuana and a lot more will be saved when we quit locking up non-violent offenders in for-profit prisons.

Those are just a few of the ways he's proposing to generate new revenue, but I will agree that it's going to take more than money to accomplish the goals he's set. It's going to take the political will to get it done and that part is up to us.

Nothing is going to get done, regardless of who we elect, if we don't also commit to remove the obstructionists from Congress.

Like Bernie said, it's going to take a political revolution. All I can say is "Count me in!"

Go Bernie!



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 07:16 PM
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Isn't it interesting how everyone has to walk on eggshells in criticizing the left's latest cult leader


Yeah, like all the eggshells around Obama?! How can you even say that after all the insane, constant attacks on him over the last 7 years?



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 10:28 PM
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originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: TheBulk

Aww are you offended?

Sanders gets plenty of heat and the Gop gets defended all the time.


You are (unsurprisingly), completely missing the point.


It is because he wanted to draw in the people who actually had information to share and not just their political bias and prejudices. What have you offered to this? You are the people he was trying to prevent derailing the topic. Whether they are left or right leaning.

On topic. I think we spend enough money already to pay for ALL of this. Just need to get our priorities straight.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 10:29 PM
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originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: openminded2011

It's really not as impossible as you may think.

When it comes to healthcare, adopting a universal, not-for-profit, single-payer system should actually be cheaper and better than what we're doing now.


'Should be'. How about trying other solutions like making healthcare companies actually compete first?


Free public college, universal pre-K and lowering college interest rates can be paid for with a Wall St. transaction tax on speculators.


This is pointless to spend money on if we are gonna constantly import people.


Social Security can be improved and made solvent through 2060 just by removing the wage cap on SS taxes.

How will that make it solvent when SS is the honey pot everyone dips into?


Instituting a $15 minimum wage, coupled with renegotiated trade pacts and a national infrastructure jobs program, will generate new revenue and fixing the tax code with respect to capital gains and ending offshore tax evasion will generate even more.


Whats going to stop fast food from eliminating people and automating everything? And how about a simple tax code? In fact why just stop at infrastructure jobs? Why not make the US a manufacturing powerhouse again? Oh right, that would require actual thought to work and not just buzzwords.


Millions, if not billions, more will be generated by legalizing and taxing marijuana and a lot more will be saved when we quit locking up non-violent offenders in for-profit prisons.


It's nice that you think so, but the black market is still going strong where its legal. Still waiting on this magical influx of cash. And no, 'record income' for this year is nothing more than just better than last year, which was far lower than projected.


Those are just a few of the ways he's proposing to generate new revenue, but I will agree that it's going to take more than money to accomplish the goals he's set. It's going to take the political will to get it done and that part is up to us.

Nothing is going to get done, regardless of who we elect, if we don't also commit to remove the obstructionists from Congress.

Like Bernie said, it's going to take a political revolution. All I can say is "Count me in!"

Go Bernie!


We don't need to generate new revenue, the IRS claimed record tax revenue for last year alone. What we need to control is spending. You guys think cutting military is gonna get you a huge chunk of the pie back? There's a reason why you never see MS along with entitlements on the same pie chart, think about it... Or is that the point? Hmmm.
edit on 17-10-2015 by Wardaddy454 because: (no reason given)



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