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Christians: What's your opinion of Matthew 19:21 ('sell your possessions and give to the poor')?

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posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 01:43 AM
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New International Version
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

New Living Translation
Jesus told him, "If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

English Standard Version
Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

Berean Study Bible
Jesus told him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me."

Berean Literal Bible
Jesus was saying to him, "If you desire to be perfect, go, sell what you are possessing, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in the heavens; and come, follow Me."

New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

King James Bible
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
biblehub.com...


It's really simple, right? If you want to be perfect you've got to sell everything you have and give the proceeds to the poor.

If it's an order from Jesus, why haven't I seen one Christian do it?

Here are my favorite explanations:

Theory #1 "Christians are not required to be perfect."

But, the verse says nothing about that. It says, "If you desire to be perfect (even 'complete')..."

Does that prove that Christians have no desire to be perfect? We've got a big problem there. If you believe Jesus was perfect and you call yourself a follower of Jesus, why wouldn't you want to be perfect? Forget about whether you believe you can actually achieve it or not, the issue here is desiring to achieve it.

How would you answer the following questions on "judgment day":

Why didn't you desire to be perfect? Was just being a mediocre person enough for you?

I don't care what you believe about that, Revelation 3:16 makes it sound very bad for those taking that stance ("God" speaking):


New International Version
So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.


Theory #2 "The suggestion to sell all one's possessions and give the proceeds to the poor only applied to the man Jesus was speaking to."

That theory tears apart the idea that the "God of the Bible" (or Jesus) is fair. I don't see how people can believe in that theory while believing that 'salvation' can be obtained in a way that's fair for everyone. There's a huge direct contradiction there.

Someone could answer that by saying that Jesus did not tell the man that he had to sell his possessions in order to attain salvation. That is true. The problem is, once you have the precedence of having different obligations/rules/suggestions for different people (in the context of a religion) then the notion that the religion is fair is refuted.

Within the context of theory #2, Revelation 3:16 comes into the picture. Could the "God of the Bible" tell the man Jesus spoke to in Matthew 19:21, "I am about to spit you out of my mouth" because the man was "lukewarm" (if he didn't follow Jesus' suggestion)? Under theory #2, this man would be "lukewarm" if he didn't follow Jesus' suggestion. Therefore, salvation for him could be determined by something that only applied to him and no one else (according to theory #2).

How do you see it?
edit on 17-10-2015 by Profusion because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:04 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

“All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?”

You know you are missing most of the conversation and the lesson here. There were quite a few people that thought "they were without sin and lacking nothing" because they kept the primary commandments. Jesus's lesson to these people who thought they were sinless is what this is about. Nobody is sinless and perfect as Jesus showed this man.

All humanity needs Jesus, you will not obtain Eternal Life without him. Your Best is not good enough... that is the lesson here and he proved it to this man.



This is a the conversation between the man and Jesus:


www.biblegateway.com...


The Rich Young Ruler

16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be [a]complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
edit on 17-10-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)






Matthew 19:21

Τέλειος] perfect, one, who for the obtaining of eternal life, οὐδὲν ἔτι ὑστερεῖ. In accordance with the moral tendencies and disposition which He discerned in the young man, Jesus demands from him that moral perfection to which, from not finding satisfaction in legalism, he was striving to attain. The following requirement, then, is a special test for a special case,[3] though it is founded upon the universal duty of absolute self-denial and devotion to Christ; nor is it to be regarded merely in the light of a recommendation, but as a command.

Observe that the Lord does not prescribe this to him as his sole duty, but only in connection with ἀκολούθει μοι. It was intended, by pressing this requirement upon him, that the young man should be led to realize his own shortcomings, and so be enabled to see the necessity of putting forth far higher efforts than any he had hitherto made. It was meant that he should feel himself weak, with a view to his being made morally strong; accordingly it is precisely upon the weak side of the young man’s character that Jesus imposes so heavy a task, for with all his inward dissatisfaction he was not aware of his actual weakness in that direction.



edit on 17-10-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:05 AM
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Ask Donald Trump.
Ask Joel Osteen.
Ask any number of extremely wealthy people who claim to be followers of Christ.
They won't like that question.
They are wolves in sheep's clothing.
I'm not even a Christian and I will share my last bit of food and give free shelter.
The last beer is mine.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:24 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

Spoken like a true televangelist... Only using PART of the actual conversation/text to prove your own point and not the point the text was intending.

Infolurker said it perfectly. His explanation was spot on. I can only add that we're all sinners and it's a hard, narrow, winding road to what we're supposed to be doing and what we actually push through doing.

If it were as easy as giving all of your belongings away... It still wouldn't be easy.

But hey.. If you want to prove it, how about you give everything you own away, don't fear about the next time you'll be able to eat or drink, since they cost money, or have shelter from the heat/cold. Once you've done this, please let me know how it goes. I think you still have to reach heaven before you'll get paid back for that wonderful deed. Oh it truly is a wonderful deed. Granted, your own earthly desires will fight you every step of the way.

Yet... you use it against Christians like it would be such an easy choice for us.

I wonder if you patronize Satanist and Wiccans and UFO enthusiast like this, or is it just people that believe in God?




edit on 17-10-2015 by StallionDuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:28 AM
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a reply to: Profusion


You should read this for better understanding. I understand exactly what you are doing



www.1timothy4-13.com...



In fact, He is our righteousness. We have no righteousness of our own.

NUMBER ONE, HE ATTACKS OUR HEART AND OUR CONSCIENCE.
Satan's target is to get our hearts and to get our conscience and trouble us and attack us. He attacks us to God, but He moves in on us. He moves in to knock us off. He attacks our Christianity. "So you're a Christian, huh? Oh, you're a Christian? What if everybody knew the kind of life that you lived and the thoughts of your life and what you said or did not do? What if all the Christians...?" He will attack you to make you absolutely shut up. He will make you feel guilty when there are no grounds for feeling guilty. He will make you feel guilty about everything under the sun, and his purpose is to make us shut our mouths. There are Christians today who will not open their mouths because of an assault of Satan upon their life. Everything that they did, Satan accuses them.

"You did not pray right. You did not read your Bible right. You did not witness right. You were not bold enough. You were not strong enough. You did not sing that right. You sang that for your own honor and glory. You did that for show. You did this or that." Everything in the world that you do, he accuses you. After a while, he absolutely shuts your mouth. He will get on you. People will have assurance of salvation and set out to knock on doors and begin to deal with people and try to win them to Christ, and they will have doubts about their salvation when they did not have any doubts before.

What is the matter? "Oh, you're a Christian, and you are out here trying to get people saved and knocking on doors. How about yourself? You are not even saved yourself." A person will begin to doubt their own salvation. They do not understand the adversary. What happens? They will quit their visitation. The Devil has knocked many a person out of singing for the Lord, witnessing for the Lord, doing anything for the Lord because of the fact the accuser has shut their mouths by his accusations. Does that sound familiar? Before a person sins, he says, "You can get away with it. Sure you can get away with it." And, after you sin, you will never get away with it. You will never fly high again. You will never sing again. You will never be used again. The accuser entices us, and the very moment they do it, the matter of despair. "You have really blown it now. You will never, never, never, again get away with this." He hits our heart and our conscience. He really works us over. That is his task, his job. He is after you.

NUMBER TWO, HIS WEAPONS ARE ACCUSATIONS.




The Accuser

In the book of Revelation, you find him accusing. You find it also in the book of Job the first chapter. We must understand that Satan has access to the throne of God. He is not cast out of heaven. He is cast out of the throne room of God, but he has access to God, and he does something before God. He accuses us.

He has an army - one third of the angels evidently. At one time, in the middle of the tribulation period, Satan will be cast out and caged on this earth like a wild lion with his armies. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea for the devil is come down ... He has access to the earth, but he will be confined to the earth.

Until then, Satan is busy doing a lot of things, but he is busy accusing the brethren. Heaven gets tired of it, and kicks him out on this earth. You and I had better read the Word of God to understand our adversary.

Adolph Hitler wrote a book that told exactly how he would conquer Europe. The world said that he would not do it, but he did it just like he wrote it. God gave us a Book that tells all about our enemy, our adversary. We are not concerned enough to pick up the Book and read about our adversary. Read about our resources. Read how they will attack us. Read how he will use us. Unless we stay in the book and read the book, then the Devil really has a hay-day with us. The accuser of the brethren.

Turn to Zechariah 3. He certainly knows to attack. NUMBER ONE, HE ATTACKS OUR HEART AND OUR CONSCIENCE. He really shakes us up. That is his design. We have a picture here in Zechariah 3: "And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. (Here is the high priest.) And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel." Joshua, the high priest, represented Israel. Jesus Christ, our High Priest represents us tonight. We are clothed in His righteousness. Our names are on His shoulders according to our birth. Our names are upon His heart and a place of affection.


edit on 17-10-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:33 AM
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a reply to: skunkape23
This is really hard to understand. Did he mean put yourself in peril by making yourself destitute and abandon your position of responsibility. A rich man can do so much good with all the money he has but can do so much more good by using the power he has built.
For example.
Jesus gave 1 man the power to end world poverty, he even gave him the riches to finance it. Instead this man spread his influence throughout the world and stole treasures and people from all over the world. He still wields this power, influence and wealth. With 1 decision he could begin the transformation.
He wont give up the country they created or sell the gold chalices or idols.

All major religions own a massive amount of wealth and do no good with it whatsoever. They own so much property it is beyond comprehension.
Sell, Sell, Sell.
Create a better world instead of saving the cash for a rainy day.
All you church goers will jump on me and point out the good work they do. Take a real look and ask yourself. Why?
Its just a business like everything else.
The pope is gods voice on Earth. well actions speak louder than words and the rich man Jesus was talking about could easily apply to the POPE.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:34 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

Jesus was highlighting the impossibility of "perfecting ourselves" in our own strength.

In the passage quoted, the rich young man was unwilling to do what Jesus asked and went away sad. Jesus went on to say how hard it is for the rich to enter heaven.

Jesus was highlighting a specific weakness in the rich young man (who was otherwise exemplary). The whole story, in context, finishes with the following:


When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” - Matthew 19: 25-26.


edit on 17/10/2015 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:38 AM
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a reply to: infolurker
The Devil uses all to further his agenda. Who really is the Devils worker. You or me. I can prove the world could be a lot better if the church shared its wealth. You are supporting this and calling people evil for following your version of god/devil.
Seems to me there are a lot of people in denial about this religion thing.
I know you mean well but the road to heaven is littered with GOOD INTENTIONS.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:42 AM
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DP

edit on 17-10-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:42 AM
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a reply to: infolurker

I think your simply doing the Christian thing, Justifying imperfection without even trying. Paul said he was running the race towards perfection, but wouldn't claim to have achieved perfection.

When you put this verse together with Luke 3:11 you get a complete understanding.



John answered, "Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same."


Anything that you have in excess should be sold and given to the poor. No one should have 2 houses or 2 shirts if someone is without one.

But this man didn't ask what he should do to be accepted into God's kingdom he asked about perfection.

The closest example to perfect would be John the Baptist. Living in the desert living off of locusts and wild honey while preaching God. This is why Jesus answered him this way.

To be accepted into the kingdom is to eliminate greed from your life and give all of your excess, not just a tithe of it. Because holding onto excess shows greed and a lack of trust in God.

Without sin means not to violate the law to Love your neighbor as yourself. If you wouldn't want to be homeless and hungry then you shouldn't let your neighbor be homeless and hungry.

There is an OT verse where Moses says their should be no hunger in Isreal. And that the foreigner living among the Jews was to be treated like a brother. So Jesus's saying wasn't a new teaching.

Perfect means to give everything away and trust solely in the Lord to provide.


edit on 17-10-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:45 AM
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Matt Perman gives the best explanation for this I've ever seen, he says that the answer is in the book of Luke:


Why didn’t Jesus say “believe in me?” Why did he seem to tell this person that he would be saved by obeying the law?

A common interpretation is that Jesus was showing this guy his sin. Jesus’ point was not that he would be saved by keeping the commandments; his point was: “you haven’t kept the commandments, so you must be saved by another way — namely, by faith in me.”

But I don’t think it is. This becomes clear when you consider the account in Luke. For, in Luke, right before this Jesus had just told the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector.

Here’s the point: The rich young ruler failed to learn the lesson of the Pharisee and tax collector. Jesus had just pointed out how the guy who claimed to have kept all the commandments was not justified. He then told us how we do become justified — namely, by acknowledging that we are sinners, like the tax collector, rather than law-keepers. It is after this that the rich young ruler comes up to Jesus and says “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

When Jesus says “you know the commandments,” and the rich young ruler responds “all these I have kept from my youth,” he is echoing the Pharisee from the passage just a few verses earlier. He, like the Pharisee, thinks he is a law keeper.

Why Did Jesus Tell the Rich Young Ruler to Sell All that He Had?



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 02:54 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

It is impossible for us to be perfect. We would not have needed Christ if it were possible.

Regarding the possessions; it is a great ethos and one that I practise. I only have what I need in my house. They are the tools of living. Everything else is gone and has been given to charity shops. I have given guitars away to people a few times. Even though I am not very well off I have a beautiful Gibson guitar now and a cool U.S Trek Mountain Bike (both tools). I tell you generosity is rewarded and karma works. I have a nice Taylor guitar I want to give away. I want to give it to a less well off person who has a disability or mental health condition on welfare for free. Just waiting for the right person to come along.

Christ is pretty amazing. If you REALLY do what He says it is quite beautiful what happens back. Try it and see, doubting Thomas!



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 03:15 AM
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How does Christ hold us to expectations that are impossible to obtain? Yes, there is forgiveness. But it's like sentencing a child to time out knowing the child will inevitably end up in time out....



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 03:23 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

I'm not a practicing Christian, but here's my take: How can a person justify giving wealth to the poor for the sake of being fit for heaven, when that act makes someone else NOT fit for heaven?

You're told that worldly wealth is not righteous, yet you are advised to give it to someone else? At best, that sounds like you're just looking out for yourself and damn anyone else.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 03:26 AM
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originally posted by: Profusion
It's really simple, right? If you want to be perfect you've got to sell everything you have and give the proceeds to the poor.

It was not an order. And it was a message to one person, not all Christians.

You have taken it completely out of context.

If I am not mistaken you are the same person who recently posted another verse out of context. Clear agenda.
edit on 17-10-2015 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 03:55 AM
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originally posted by: InTheShadows
a reply to: Profusion

I'm not a practicing Christian, but here's my take: How can a person justify giving wealth to the poor for the sake of being fit for heaven, when that act makes someone else NOT fit for heaven?

You're told that worldly wealth is not righteous, yet you are advised to give it to someone else? At best, that sounds like you're just looking out for yourself and damn anyone else.


I think you will find that the "worldly wealth is unrighteous" concept is not from the Bible.

Most (but not all) of the Biblical 'greats' were vastly wealthy in comparison to the average person of their time and it was regarded as a blessing from God.



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 04:00 AM
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originally posted by: Profusion


Here are my favorite explanations:

Theory #1 "Christians are not required to be perfect."

But, the verse says nothing about that. It says, "If you desire to be perfect (even 'complete')..."

Does that prove that Christians have no desire to be perfect? We've got a big problem there. If you believe Jesus was perfect and you call yourself a follower of Jesus, why wouldn't you want to be perfect? Forget about whether you believe you can actually achieve it or not, the issue here is desiring to achieve it.

How would you answer the following questions on "judgment day":

Why didn't you desire to be perfect? Was just being a mediocre person enough for you?

I don't care what you believe about that, Revelation 3:16 makes it sound very bad for those taking that stance ("God" speaking):


New International Version
So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.



You have really heard or seen this explanation? I call BS



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 04:00 AM
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a reply to: EternalSolace

None of it makes any logical sense whatsoever. Though, I suppose logic is the "devil".



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 04:09 AM
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originally posted by: IridiumFlareMadness
a reply to: EternalSolace

None of it makes any logical sense whatsoever. Though, I suppose logic is the "devil".


None of what makes any logical sense?



posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 04:35 AM
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originally posted by: Cinrad

originally posted by: Profusion


Here are my favorite explanations:

Theory #1 "Christians are not required to be perfect."

But, the verse says nothing about that. It says, "If you desire to be perfect (even 'complete')..."

Does that prove that Christians have no desire to be perfect? We've got a big problem there. If you believe Jesus was perfect and you call yourself a follower of Jesus, why wouldn't you want to be perfect? Forget about whether you believe you can actually achieve it or not, the issue here is desiring to achieve it.

How would you answer the following questions on "judgment day":

Why didn't you desire to be perfect? Was just being a mediocre person enough for you?

I don't care what you believe about that, Revelation 3:16 makes it sound very bad for those taking that stance ("God" speaking):


New International Version
So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.



You have really heard or seen this explanation? I call BS

#1 response ... Christians were never commanded to do this.




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