The Right To Bear Arms Is A Volatile Issue We Face Daily...

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
Not sure what you mean; some of us are enthused hobbyists (collect relics, black powder firearms and those that are legal specialized arms ). What is an average gun owner as a buyer or seller? What is the interest? You think overly obsessed and visible. No, hobbyists are not visible. You have spent words and thoughts on what you do NOT align yourself with; what is your alignment?

The Ammosexuals who make Hello Kitty branded rifles for their 4 year old daughter, stage open carry rallies right next to grade schools just because they can do it, and are militantly pro 2nd with no limitations.

Those are the obsessed people that everyone thinks of.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: DBCowboy

vhb: Would that be the 'domestic' proponent?

Cowboy: I don't understand.

Limiting or denying gun ownership to an American Citizen that does not have a prior felony conviction. How did the UK take the rights of gun ownership from its citizens? I am assuming wealthy Estate holders have the right to hunt their own lands using firearms?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

if you're a prior felon, but has paid your debt to society, then why couldn't you own a firearm?

To me, that's a permanent punishment.

a reply to: Aazadan

I don't know anywhere that it's legal to carry concealed into a bar and consume alcohol.

Less than lethal options are terrific. Right up until a lethal threat is presented. If you want to bring a baton to a gunfight, that's your right.

Just as its my right to meet the person who's lost control of their reason and chosen to pull a gun out with a gun of my own, and not a baton.

originally posted by: Aazadan
originally posted by: vethumanbeing

vhb: Not sure what you mean; some of us are enthused hobbyists (collect relics, black powder firearms and those that are legal specialized arms ). What is an average gun owner as a buyer or seller? What is the interest? You think overly obsessed and visible. No, hobbyists are not visible. You have spent words and thoughts on what you do NOT align yourself with; what is your alignment?

Aazadan: The Ammosexuals who make Hello Kitty branded rifles for their 4 year old daughter, stage open carry rallies right next to grade schools just because they can do it, and are militantly pro 2nd with no limitations.Those are the obsessed people that everyone thinks of.

This should have made the news cycle (4 year olds dressed in branded 'Hello Kitty garb") brandishing pink 3D printed plastic weaponry. The second amendment is not about pro-militancy (aggressiveness) it is about the right to defend against an aggressor (with reasonable due diligence). You realize the hardest thing to come by now is ammo loads and has no sexual connotations associated.

Guns aren't the problem. Weakness is

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: vethumanbeing

if you're a prior felon, but has paid your debt to society, then why couldn't you own a firearm?

To me, that's a permanent punishment.

That is our law (F) branded forever (similar to Hawthorns 'A' labeled as an adulterer) all of ones rights are removed. No appeals process for this; which is why it so dangerous if singled out; prosecuted and convicted within a federal born action of malicious malfeasance.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I agree with that theory, I've had very similar thoughts on it. It's not just WW2 and the west either, but our guns are how we broke away from England. Guns are tied to every major action in the US that lead to prosperity for us.

I'm not anti gun either, but I do think we need a few more limitations placed on them. A gun for home defense is perfectly reasonable. A concealed handgun on your person when you go to the bar and have had a few is not.

In general I do not approve of gun free zones, unless the entire country is declared a gun free zone. But I am much more skeptical of the need to concealed carry a handgun in public when less lethal options are available. When people come into conflict and reason gives way to emotion, handguns often find themselves being used in the wrong ways.

Agreed. Something is seriously wrong when you truly believe you need to carry a concealed firearm to go grocery shopping. If you are so afraid of you need to carry a gun everywhere, I think that says more about our society than the issue of gun ownership itself.

Fear sells:

...modern Americans’ fears of mortality have taken the form of imagined predators from Communists to immigrants to street gangs to ISIS. We fear being friendless, loveless, invisible, socially ostracized and – perhaps most obviously – alone. Humiliation, science now tells us, is a soul-crushing feeling we’d do anything to avoid. With so many subconscious fears plaguing us, it’s unsurprising that studies find people “better remember and more frequently recall ads that portray fear than they do warm or upbeat ads or ads with no emotional content.” We are the products of a culture that teaches us to fear an endless list of things that advertisers can, and absolutely do, use against us.

Keith Bradsher, author of the book High and Mighty: The Dangerous Rise of the SUV, writes that Rapaille’s marketing is grounded in the idea that Americans are “becoming frighteningly atavistic and obsessed with crime.” He quotes Rapaille as saying that we are “going back to medieval times,” a devolution that is apparent “in that we live in ghettos with gates and private armies.” It makes sense, then, that we might – just as an example – drive around in military war vehicles repurposed as suburban war fetish objects.

Alternet

It seems pretty obvious from taking a cursory glance at news websites and television that we are being force-fed a diet high in fear.

It's one thing to collect stamps or baseball cards, and another to collect guns. Its not a fair comparison as stamps and baseball cards aren't designed to kill things.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Then we already have the harshest penalties known. Break the laws and your rights are gone forever. Why does there ever have to be MORE laws to punish the innocent?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Then we already have the harshest penalties known. Break the laws and your rights are gone forever. Why does there ever have to be MORE laws to punish the innocent?

There will be more invented; a never ending source for/in and/the opportunity to subjugate the citizen. My state is having a problem with the Federal .gov regarding its interpretation of legal gun ownership and this states interpretation.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Subjugate. A very fitting word.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Subjugate. A very fitting word.

A sneaky bomb word; can have a very broad base interpretation: applied as an effortless elegant abstract to describe enslavement.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Aazadan

I don't know anywhere that it's legal to carry concealed into a bar and consume alcohol.

Less than lethal options are terrific. Right up until a lethal threat is presented. If you want to bring a baton to a gunfight, that's your right.

Just as its my right to meet the person who's lost control of their reason and chosen to pull a gun out with a gun of my own, and not a baton.

Legal or not, people do it. Also if it's a 1 on 1 situation (such as you're walking out to your car), the criminal will always get the first shot should they choose to take one. Having ready access to easily concealable weapons only makes it easier for them. If we could eliminate the supply of hand guns on the streets prices would rise, and they would be out of reach of most petty crime. It's not a perfect solution but it seems workable to me. Particularly since it would do nothing to home defense where it's better to have something like a shotgun.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
This should have made the news cycle (4 year olds dressed in branded 'Hello Kitty garb") brandishing pink 3D printed plastic weaponry. The second amendment is not about pro-militancy (aggressiveness) it is about the right to defend against an aggressor (with reasonable due diligence). You realize the hardest thing to come by now is ammo loads and has no sexual connotations associated.

I was using something of an unfair term, I know there's no sexual connotations with it, I just like the way it sounds because it describes how they act. It's a literal obsession with guns. They caress them, worship them, fondle them, and loudly and unceasingly defend all aspects of gun ownership as if they can do no wrong, like having a wife/girlfriend that's unpopular with your friends.

What the 2nd means is open for a lot of debate, and I'll avoid going down that road for now and just focus on the self defense aspect. I said in another post recently about the NRA commercial, that despite living in a high crime area I choose to not arm myself for the most part. The reason for that, is that I don't want to be carrying a constant reminder of what might happen to me. It creates fear of what's behind a dark corner, or what's going to happen the next day, and I would rather live in a dangerous area with a clear mind, than in a dangerous area constantly afraid of what might happen.

Obviously, that's the sort of choice each person should be able to make for themselves, but there are plenty of cases that have shown that when otherwise rational and responsible people get pissed off, they cease to care about firearm safety and that makes me hesitant to support people carrying a handgun. Handguns are rarely the best choice for home defense too (but one of the best for invading a home), so it lines up well with public safety. Which I suppose puts me in the exact opposite camp of someone like Feinstein. I am all for the scary poorly named assault rifles, I'm not for the weapons people can hide on their person.

originally posted by: Aazadan
originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Aazadan

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
This should have made the news cycle (4 year olds dressed in branded 'Hello Kitty garb") brandishing pink 3D printed plastic weaponry. The second amendment is not about pro-militancy (aggressiveness) it is about the right to defend against an aggressor (with reasonable due diligence). You realize the hardest thing to come by now is ammo loads and has no sexual connotations associated.

Aazadan: I was using something of an unfair term, I know there's no sexual connotations with it, I just like the way it sounds because it describes how they act. It's a literal obsession with guns. They caress them, worship them, fondle them, and loudly and unceasingly defend all aspects of gun ownership as if they can do no wrong, like having a wife/girlfriend that's unpopular with your friends.

How who acts? Literally obsessive according to you; as you describe in the above they actually fondle (clean) and have sex with their guns as an ALSO plus this twist: WORSHIP them. You would defend your unpopular wife to your friends before you would your favorite firearm?

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
a reply to: Shamrock6

Yep.... Long before we ever dreamed of the Internet we had The Anarchist Cookbook.

Yes we did also it was called the Jolly Rodger - Hand Book ..

Just about found in Every Hacker , Crack Team, Demo scene on
Bulletin Board Systems . aka BBS in the late 80s early 90s
Mostly found on BBS from Europe , from Norway, Sweden, Germany where the Hacker cracker
Demo Scenes were the most Popular ..

Other Versions: had artistic ASCII Diagrams and drawings within. in various formats.
from IBM (PC) Commodore (64 128, Amiga ), Apple ( MAC Apple II )

of Course the Internet aka Arpa-net was around.... but not for public nor Civilian Use
with the exception Collages-University with Terminals with mainframes .. &
with Email Access.. Even my Self had a BBS running for a while on a C-128 Commodore


Now I would Imagine the Newer Versions of the Cookbook would have

what you could build with a 3d printer.. , no longer TXT anymore ..

with today's Tech. PDFs , Zips , Flash Drives, SD cards, Clouds ,
its every where.

For a Ban on Guns in the United States ( Will never Happen )

How accurate are these MEMES?





a Nice point Out ..


what that Saying ; for those who do not remember
that past are condemned to repeat it

a reply to: Wolfenz

But was McVeigh a patsy though...? Could a fertilizer bomb in a truck cause that much damage? Could he have been setup, or pushed into action? We know that the FBI uses informants to encourage people to engage in activities in order to arrest them on terrorism charges.

Even more shocking was that the organisation, money, weapons and motivation for this plot did not come from real Islamic terrorists. It came from the FBI, and an informant paid to pose as a terrorist mastermind paying big bucks for help in carrying out an attack. For McWilliams, her own government had actually cajoled and paid her beloved nephew into being a terrorist, created a fake plot and then jailed him for it. "I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone," she told the Guardian.

The Guardian

Given what we know now about FBI operations, it might be worth looking through the OKC bombing with fresh eyes. Domestic terrorism is becoming a new target again for the federal government, it generally goes in cycles. We'll focus on external terrorism for a bit, then focus on internal/domestic terrorism for a bit.

a reply to: Wolfenz
What is being counted upon is this; as the older generations die off (by natural attrition) and the newer generations bifurcate; have the potential to be 'indoctrinated' (not having a clue as to what took place in the past) or warped/manipulated into thinking or understanding the idea of Socialism/Communism 101 can be a positive.

a reply to: Wolfenz

I would imagine one of the top entries in such a book would be overvolting laptop batteries. They have the explosive power of a hand grenade if one blows up.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: Wolfenz
What is being counted upon is this; as the older generations die off (by natural attrition) and the newer generations bifurcate; have the potential to be 'indoctrinated' (not having a clue as to what took place in the past) or warped/manipulated into thinking or understanding the idea of Socialism/Communism 101 can be a positive.

So you want to instead indoctrinate them into believing socialism and communism are inherently evil?

Current societies have access to the combined knowledge of all of human history at their fingertips. I think people are perfectly capable of coming to their own conclusions without the previous generations indoctrinating them into what they believe to be right.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
How who acts? Literally obsessive according to you; as you describe in the above they actually fondle (clean) and have sex with their guns as an ALSO plus this twist: WORSHIP them. You would defend your unpopular wife to your friends before you would your favorite firearm?

Read the weapons forum sometime, or just about any 2nd amendment thread. A lot of posters have very warped views of their guns, and calling it an unhealthy obsession bordering on worship is completely fair. They've made a religion out of the 2nd amendment.