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Our Civilization does'nt need us all to work. Now what?

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posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 04:35 PM
a reply to: Xeven

i think a different way to look at it is: our society has freed up enough time to pursue new levels of innovation.

posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 04:49 PM
"Our Civilization does'nt need us all to work. Now what?"

now we live.

posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 05:12 PM
I agree.
and a trick they use now is to make us relyant on goods from other countrys.
a lot of food we can grow in are own country we buy abroad.
we are we Not allowed to be self sufficient. why?

to keep us unstable!

posted on Oct, 17 2015 @ 11:28 PM
a reply to: Xeven

I've written several posts on this subject here, I'll skip repeating myself for now and instead point out something that I always found interesting from the futurists of the 50's-90's. They did a great job at predicting our lifestyle but none of them predicted what would happen to us economically when we were put out of a job.

My opinion on answering this is that we need to shrink the labor pool in order to raise rates. Reduce the work week to 20 hours and we suddenly need twice the people to work. The economics of such a situation would shift to accommodate the change in income levels. Such a change is long overdue in my opinion and would reflect the gradual reduction in work weeks that has been going on since the beginning of the industrial revolution.

originally posted by: crazyewok
True in the next 100 years it will likely not be fit for service.

But what is to replace it?

Much less than that. I give it 20, maybe 10. Another good economic collapse and capitalism as we know it is probably done for.
edit on 17-10-2015 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 02:46 AM
a reply to: OhOkYeah

bowbowbow! nicely said! sometimes i do lose hope, sometimes reading this gives me more!

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 07:32 AM
Our economy is heavily manipulated, one of the interesting unforeseen consequences of controlling interest rates and setting a rate below the market rate is that capital or machines etc become cheaper then human labor leading to more technology in the work place .

Capitalism (free as possible) leads to resources being adequately utilized. I find it hard to see how you could reduce the hours worked since contribution or productivity varies which ultimately effects the viability of the job being done especially if it's open to competition which incidentally we too need as competition leads to improvement and innovation, also how do you force a "key" person to work more than others if he/she is not happy with the arrangement?

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 10:07 AM
a reply to: Xeven

I will make a prediction. In the future,yes, manufacturing jobs will be largely extinct, automation is going to take almost ALL the jobs, that is a certainty. But the reaction will be, that we will create another economy, a "breakaway" economy. What will it be? Tradesmen, craftsmen, artists, organic small farmers, people who create all the things the machines can NEVER create, something with HEART in it. I predict it will be linked by e-commerce, and maybe utilizing an electronic currency like bitcoin. Amazon just opened up a fine art market online, I think this is going to be the future of work. Yes, the machines will build all the cars and cellphones and tablets, but people will make artwork, organic veggies, and hand crafted items. Scarcity will add value, and hand crafted items will become more valuable as time goes by. Our economy and work wont go away, the TYPE of work we do will change. Actually maybe the quality of life will IMPROVE. Ever do a factory job? A lot of them are tedious and dangerous. Let the machines do them, we can go on to better things.
edit on 18-10-2015 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 10:34 AM
a reply to: OhOkYeah

Your post is really brilliant and insightful.The only place I differ from your assessment is that I see the source of the problem as being different than you do. I agree that no matter what system is in place or not in place human beings will never be able to truly thrive as long as they operate under the influence of an unbridled ego. As long as I attempt to satisfy my egoic needs, I will always put myself first , I will always see myself as separate and I will never be fullfilled. That being said, any system put in place will eventually be corrupted out of greed and an endless state of need.

Our current economy doles out payments to the poor to keep them quiet and dependent. The middle class foots the bill and the elite continue to play rigged shell games with the masses, games that are rigged so that they will always win. I think the goal is to get an even larger amount of people on welfare and not working. The poor will be willing to keep the charade going to perpetuate that monthly check. There will be work for the middle classes, there has to be, as they must finance this sick game. And of course, if we need to create more jobs, we have another war, or we make new laws to put more people in prison.

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 11:05 AM
This is my first post to ATS. Simply could not let this topic go without my comment.

To the OP,

You are the reason I have to work three jobs and pay thousands a month in taxes.
You are the reason I cannot afford to go to the doctor due to high co-pays.

We do not have an unemployment problem.
We have a huge don't want to work problem.

I ran a large retail store outside Detroit for several years.
Had over 80 openings that I could not keep filled.
Was paying over $12 per hour.

I have run large businesses over the past thirty years.
Right now I have almost thirty openings that I cannot keep filled.
The trouble is, finding people who will show up. That is the big one.
The next greatest hurdle appears to be staying drug free. Another big one.
The third greatest hurdle for these folks appears to be following direction and staying productive.

The entitlement mindset is going to be the death of this country.
I have to work three jobs so my neighbor can sit at home.
Most of my neighbors sit at home.
On my dime.

What kills me is my neighbors have all the time and money they could want.
They party while I work. Barbeques and pool parties abound.
They can go to the doctor and not pay a cent.

I cannot afford the doctor.
Co-pays and deductibles keep me away.
I pay a pretty penny though for coverage though.
If something tragic happens, I will go but it will cost me big.

If everyone participated, those of us carrying the deadbeats would have a free minute or two.
Why should I have to carry a dozen loafers on my income simply because I have a work ethic.

I would love to monitor this thread to see relays but off to job number two.
If I didn't have a work ethic I could probably monitor it on my cell phone.
Fortunately for you some of us still go to work and work while there.

I would love to have a spare few hours a week to do what I want.
People who say there are no jobs are either not looking or the available jobs are beneath them.

Feel free to step up anytime. I could certainly use a break for a while and simply work one job.

Best Regards,

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 11:20 AM
If every human went out today and cut down a tree we could do that for a year before all the trees are gone.

Point is that there is not enough resources for everyone to live and work in a world of hard labor.

So the answer they found was too push papers around.

Now most people are very important paper jockies and the rest look down on the rest of the world as being lazy.

The truth is that many people get a woody when they work and those people should be working if they choose but to then turn around and look down on everyone else because they did not shuffle papers last week is kinda lame.

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 12:36 PM
a reply to: WorkingClass

It depends on where you live. Where I lived before I couldn't find a job to save my life, had to move, what job I did have was part time and paid jack #.

Once I moved where I am now, I found a decent job in one day of looking but noticed so many people here don't give a crap and the turn over rate is sky high as a result. My job can't keep a full crew.

What's true in one place is not true in another.

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 01:48 PM
a reply to: WorkingClass

Somehow I doubt what you're saying. You work 3 jobs yet you run a business? Running multiple businesses is not holding multiple jobs, it's just one job.

Your neighbors sit at home? Are you aware how much people get? It's about $700/month, which means they live in places where rent isn't over $500, if you've been so successful why are you living in such a slum?

You can't keep your positions filled? Sounds like a labor shortage to me, which means the cost of labor goes up. Maybe you're not recognizing the market value of the jobs you're demanding be done?

You pay thousands a month in taxes? Lets say that's $2000, that's $24,000 per year in taxes. That puts you somewhere around $100k/year in income. If you have that much income, why are you living in a slum working presumably 100+ hours per week between three jobs? Work less, you'll have more free time, pay less in taxes, and even create a job for someone else so there's one fewer jobless person out there.

Oh, and it's only a very small percent of your taxes that are going to support people in the first place.

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 03:46 PM

originally posted by: Xeven

Are you ready for everyone to have equal stuff?

Sure would be nice to just enjoy the day without having to worry about working 40 to 60 hours a week, then we could just enjoy family and friends.

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 04:03 PM
The only way a Star Trek reality would work is if we had unlimited, free energy and those replicator gizmos that turned matter into anything we wanted instantly. If we had those two things, people could pretty much spend their time doing what they enjoyed doing, not what they had to.

I don't really see either of those two things happening.

(post by onequestion removed for a manners violation)

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 05:53 PM
a reply to: WorkingClass

Thanks for this post. The smug self-satisfaction permeates the whole thing.

Knowing my choice to not work makes the lives of people like you harder makes it all worth it.

Maybe one day it will get hard enough that you look in the mirror and see what it's made of you.

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 10:22 PM
We will work no matter what. It would either be exercise, eating, or searching for information such as history(especially the internet), etc. Your not working when you just sit on a rock all day long doing nothing.

The current dream jobs are not even out for the population which was planned to come out during the year 2000+ and did not.

"Space Pilots"
"Spaceship building(Small to Large Ships, anything that is half the size of the Moon should be banned)"
"Space Rescue crew(forget helicopters)"
"Space mining(except Moon because it will effect Earth)"
"Living on Moon with Large Telescope""
"Colonization of Mars"
"Farming on Mars/Moon"
"Farming at Space"
"Giant Space Station for Earth and Mars defense"
"Tourism in Space"
"Space Transportation"
"Space Discovery"
"Environmental friendly jobs such as wind mills, filtering pollution, etc(from building to maintenance)"

But, if that actually did happen Bush would be calling on Space Terrorists. We would have Space Pirates also.

It is just too bad Americans continue with its open door policy and not seeking out the full truth.

edit on 18-10-2015 by makemap because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 18 2015 @ 10:42 PM
I recommend we start by eliminating homeless and mentally ill people first. Then anyone on welfare and food stamps after that. Next we can eliminate anyone making under 250k a year.

Well do this by making food unaffordable and cutting all subsidies even though there isn't enough work for everyone.

I mean why would we choose to go a different route like just not having to work full time? That would be stupid.

posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 03:37 AM
a reply to: WorkingClass

I respect your attitude to the work ethic, to incentivize people the opportunity cost of not working has to be less than working thus its a wage issue.

Since plenty get their basic needs met on welfare they choose not to work and should they? after all they had no real say either way.

posted on Oct, 19 2015 @ 03:48 AM
I don't think we are headed to absolute socialism and equality. At least not in the near future. There will always be some level of social stratification and I think a reasonable amount is healthy.

That said, what we are doing now is far from healthy. I definitely think there is a better form of socio-economic system on the horizon, but it will take a big shift in global consciousness before that happens.

Technically, we have to capacity to produce the things people need with very little labor which could free up people to do much more creative things with their lives.

Unfortunately, too many people demonize the idea as "lazy" people just wanting a bunch of free stuff. I think a lot of it is that so many people have worked a job they don't particularly like for many years and if someone tells them that there's a way to live without having to do a job they hate, they reject it because they invested so much of their lives in it and they don't want to feel like its been decades wasted. Obviously, there are very powerful people that would not benefit from this form of system so they use sophisticated propaganda that patronizes people without actually saying, "Get to work slaves," which is what they really mean.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free."

Another reason this alternative system is demonized is because of the assumption that people would just rot and be worthless and unproductive, but it's totally unfounded. I happen to believe that people are not inherently lazy. I don't even believe in laziness per se. I think "laziness" has more to do with being uninspired. And so many of the jobs in this economy are uninspiring. If people were freed up from mundane work, I think they would be much more creative and productive, not to mention more peaceful. There was a study that was done a few years ago regarding the effect money has on production. The conclusion that was reached was that when it comes down to repetitive type work, where there is little cognitive thinking required, money as an incentive slightly increased production. But when it came down projects where it required much more cognitive, creative thinking and problem solving money was actually a deterrent.

Interestingly enough, the jobs that are the most vulnerable to being replaced with automation are the mundane, tedious, repetitive jobs. So as more jobs become automated, money as an incentive will be producing fewer and fewer results.

Capitalism as we know it is becoming obsolete. The big question though:

Are people in general going to be open minded enough to let go of some of their deep ideologies that they hold so tight or will people become obsolete right along side capitalism?

One is inevitable. Hopefully it's the former.
edit on 19-10-2015 by Reflection because: Misspell

edit on 19-10-2015 by Reflection because: Misspell

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