Creationism SHOULD be taught in school. ( alongside science theories! )

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Heck some religions (like Christianity) have multiple interpretations of that Creationist account too. How exactly would a class even address all of those accounts?

It would be a world mythology class, linked to anthropology.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: deadlyhope

The scientific theory does not say that everything came from nothing. The only people i hear say that is creationists who don't like science. Perhaps you should learn the actual scientific theory before you go bashing it?

YES IT DOES.

You can say that it does not all you want, but the entire basis of it DOES.

so you can back that up with sources?

Why are you so bound by caring what the scientific theory is anyways ??

bound? Like forced?

What RULE and LAW says that anyone needs to accept this belief, this system ??

i care about the truth. That led me to a life of education and research. I've done the math. I understand the theories. That is what leads me to believe these theories are the best we have at the time.

And why do you need to believe that it is true ???

the language you are using is odd. I do not NEED to believe. That is what religion does. It forces you to believe something with no evidence, under penalty of eternal punishment. If i get some math wrong, i just fix it. No punishment.

WHY DO YOU NOT SEE IT AS JUST ANOTHER RELIGION, THAT IS BEING PRESENTED TO YOU.

because i understand the math. Therefor, no faith is required. I think that is where you are confused. You don't understand the meaning of the word theory. And you obviously don't understand what the theories even say. If you can show me where the big bang theory says everything came from nothing, i'll leave this site forever.

a reply to: deadlyhope

The concept that "all theories have parity" is ludicrous on several levels. The one most pertinent to science classes is that you're just playing equivocation games. The word "theory" in science has a specific meaning:

US National Academy of Sciences:

The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence. Many scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed.

American Association for the Advancement of Science:

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact.

So why should creationism, a hypothesis with no evidence to support it, be given the same footing in a science class as a scientific theory like evolution? Just because it's popular?

I do agree with them both being taught in schools, I'm in the UK, schooled through the 70's and 80's, we would be taught religious stories in one lesson, and go to a science class and discuss the 'big bang' as a known fact.
The bonus here is I was frustrated and confused at the time, I'd laugh how we were taught two opposing lessons, then by the time I left school I used my own brain, and decided perhaps just maybe God created the big bang, this was the beginning of my quest for truth!! I might not have found it yet, but I'm certainly not religious, I follow no dogmas, but am spiritual, thanks to being taught both sides I learned that I would just be myself and love nature...
It scares me though knowing there are children in the world today who are indoctrinated with religion, forbidden to be themselves and to be punished, often in brutal ways for questioning their religion.

a reply to: solitudeandme

I'm in the UK, schooled through the 70's and 80's, we would be taught religious stories in one lesson, and go to a science class and discuss the 'big bang' as a known fact.
The bonus here is I was frustrated and confused at the time, I'd laugh how we were taught two opposing lessons

The problem lies between being unable to differentiate between stories and a Scientific Theory

Basically the same problem the OP has.

is there any scientific evidence that the big bang occurred, serious question here....
I kind of think there is but I could be wrong.
so what was before the big bang? is there any scientific evidence that answers that?

science is great, and has throughout the centuries answered many questions, but while it has, it has opened up more questions to be answered.
to me, creationism is more of a myth than it is a science, or a scientific theory even. science can be proven over and over again...we can't prove that there is an omnipresent being that was around when the universe was created can we? can we prove that this being had a hand in it's formation? no, then I guess it's not proven science then, is it?
usually scientific experiments can be designed to prove theories... can anyone here give me a clue as to just how we can prove that there is this super intelligence out there that is capable of creating a universe? maybe I am wrong, but I don't think that we have gotten that far yet.
what was there before the big bang?? the back end of a giant universe eating black hole, but then, where did that universe come from? was there just energy, but then what force caused the energy to transform into matter, or well, where did the energy come from...

we have the myths of our ancestors to answer these questions because our science hasn't reached far enough to answer them. we could use our modern day science of today as a basis and write new myths to answer these questions, but they probably would be about as accurate as atlas holding the world on his shoulders is. the best answer we could give our children is we just don't know and well, allow them to create their own myths and ideas as to what the answers might be. but this wouldn't in no way be an adventure into science, would it?

I think I will stick to the steady state theory

a reply to: deadlyhope

You see, it's not about religion.

I agree that it isn't about religion.

It's about science.

Creationism isn't science therefore it has no place in science classrooms.

I wouldn't be opposed to a mandatory world religion class teaching kids about all the different religions, including the extreme view of Biblical literalists and YEC.

For the record - I'm talking about how the world came about, not about mutations of species and evolution over time - I realize some aspects are indeed facts, and believe schools should teach them as such.

So you want us to teach kids that an all powerful wizard SPOKE things into existence via magic words IN SCIENCE CLASS? Sorry but Creationism isn't a theory and isn't scientific and so it doesn't belong in science class. There might be a place in school for such teachings, a course about religion or mythology, but a supernatural being speaking things into existence as recorded in an ancient book of myths has NO place in a science classroom.

a reply to: Titen-Sxull

Try explaining why science isn't a belief.

How they used to explain things are now debunked, aka lies, aka they were always beliefs, falsehoods, magic, mysticism... All touted as facts. The world was flat, the earth was the center of the universe.. Because we've "figured out" simple things such as these, we somehow think we have the intellect to figure out the creation of the universe.. That's bull. Your science is even more mystical and deluded than any religion I know. At least religion says "God created it, I don't know how" rather than having the delusional narcissism to think one is all knowing and wise and posit it as facts and jam that crap right into the minds of kids..

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Titen-Sxull

Try explaining why science isn't a belief.

How they used to explain things are now debunked, aka lies, aka they were always beliefs, falsehoods, magic, mysticism... All touted as facts. The world was flat, the earth was the center of the universe.. Because we've "figured out" simple things such as these, we somehow think we have the intellect to figure out the creation of the universe.. That's bull. Your science is even more mystical and deluded than any religion I know. At least religion says "God created it, I don't know how" rather than having the delusional narcissism to think one is all knowing and wise and posit it as facts and jam that crap right into the minds of kids..

Science is a process not a body of beliefs.

And I don't see too many scientists (i.e. none) try to say they know how and why the universe exists. The usual answer is "I don't know". I don't see how "God created it" explains anything.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Try explaining why science isn't a belief.

Let's see, science has two different definitions. There's the method that is used, the scientific method. And there's science in general, which is the body of knowledge gained through that method.

I suppose if you wanted to play semantics you could argue that knowledge is a stronger subset of belief, but science is of course bolstered by objectively verifiable facts and pragmatic models that best fit the reality we observe. Science isn't a belief in the ordinary sense of the word, I don't believe science, I accept or reject scientific claims.

rather than having the delusional narcissism to think one is all knowing and wise and posit it as facts and jam that crap right into the minds of kids..

Where to begin... first off science is not MINE, science belongs to all mankind, it is a collective endeavor to better understand the world... and guess what - IT WORKS. Anti-biotics, Vaccines, Surgery. Better crop yields with more nutritional value, safer cars, safer planes, trips to the moon, images of hundreds of galaxies swirling in deep space, a smart phone that can guide you to your destination using satellites put in space for that purpose. I could go on and on with the ways in which science and the technology it creates using the discoveries it has found have enriched all of our lives and increased our life-spans. And it is not through all-knowing arrogance that science works, you're quite mistaken, it is through the humility of submitting to peer review and having your ideas scrutinized and picked apart by all your fellow scientists.

I know of NO scientist who is going around claiming to have the definitive answer to the Universe's origin. Even folks like Stephen Hawking admit there are plenty of mysteries left to be solved.



Oh so arrogant. How dare we use the best method humans have ever devised to attempt to answer the big questions. How dare we presume to understand the mysteries once held captive from the public by Popes and Priests.

a reply to: deadlyhope

There are many creationist theories depending on the religion, and many large religions around the world that aren't Abrahamic. It would consume a large amount of time to teach all the various creation stories in equal detail. Ultimately, they are there in science class to learn science, if a parent wants their child to learn creationism, they can either tell them on their own or send them to a private religious school.

a reply to: deadlyhope

At least religion says "God created it, I don't know how"

It does? It says "I don't know how"??

The topic of this thread is Creationism. That's precisely what religion claims to know. How god(s) created the cosmos.

Religion claims to have knowledge where we cannot possibly have it. Science doesn't.

a reply to: ParasuvO

Unlike religion, science gives us lasting technologies and understandings that we build upon.

You wouldn't be on ATS without science.

a reply to: deadlyhope


Religion has no place in the public schooling system.

Private religious school- I can understand that religion would be taught.

While in a perfect world this would be a great idea, fact is kids only have limited funds and time in education - it shouldn't be wasted on subjects with no evidence - however, they should be advised to learn about the different viewpoints extra-circularly if they want too.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised at the rebellion against anti-intellectualism in this thread...I've seen so many threads on here with this creationist nonsense get brigaded by the "flock" to the point that their circular logic just gets on the critically minded posters nerves, and they just give up.
I for one will never bow to the "my faith trumps your facts" crowd, ever.
Now, back on topic...
You can't possibly ask questions about stuff you refuse to understand.
I keep hearing "explain how science isn't a belief" ...
It's been explained to you, in terms a child could understand, and in terms someone with an education could understand.
But you keep asking.
Your willful ignorance being passed off as "knowing the truth" is so beyond ridiculous as to be categorized as satire.
Most of us non believers are just as, or even more familiar with your beliefs, as well as other belief systems than you are.
Yet time and again you parade your myopic little world view, and attack everything else as lies, false beliefs, etc.
You are the greatest threat to humanity, period.
But, as I said before, I take comfort in knowing that like all religions, they eventually fade into obscurity..

a reply to: VictorBloodworth

I guess actually that is incorrect...
They don't fade, they just co opted into a new system of bull#, i.e., Christianity from Hebrew beliefs, from Sumerian, with a dash of Egyptian, then sprinkled with pagan holidays..

a reply to: VictorBloodworth

I am the greatest threat to humanity, period?

Lol.

People think their beliefs make them so much better than everyone else, people who follow a religion, and those who don't, those that believe in a God, and atheist - everyone believes their point of view makes them better. That if more people were like them, the world would advance in better ways.

I do not make this claim. This thread is an opinion/debate, in which many people have made their point well enough that I can agree that it shouldn't be taught in a science class, in the way the Title depicts. I've seen different points of views and have been given opinions by good people that oppose my initial statements, and thus have in ways made me agree with them.

However, you are extremely unopen to discussion, and seem to think yourself superior. Superiority complexes are the biggest threat to humans, period. Maybe not you as an individual, you're just some guy/gal on a computer, but pick up a history book.

It's never been one religion, one ethnicity, one belief system that causes the worst atrocities in this world - it's always a person or group that feels superior.