Creationism SHOULD be taught in school. ( alongside science theories! )

originally posted by: deadlyhope
...but even the big bang theory, which I was taught in school, is losing traction...

What do you mean by "losing traction?"

a reply to: MotherMayEye

phys.org...

Just one article. There's more theories that toss the big bang theory aside.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Dimithae

For the tenth time, I'm not talking about any particular religion.

Not Adam and eve, not morality, not Jesus or the Bible.

"some believe these events happened on their own, others, commonly due to religious beliefs, believe a higher being had a hand in these events" type of thing.

It's like I believe med school students could be taught holistic, Alternative, herbal, and other types of Medicine, even including types not commonly believed in, in the West - it gives a bigger picture to what could be or might be, and certainly doesn't force any to believe in them, just to know that some have their reasons to believe in it. ( not to mention alternative medicine is gaining more and more ground, with more true trials proving the methods, or health regimes.)

if you are not going to use a religious explanation, what would you teach? What would the course work look and sound like? You sound pretty convinced. Where did you learn about the idea that a deity created everything?

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

Everyone keeps dragging the Bible, and religion into this discussion and they do not have their place. I do not think religion should be taught at schools, nor should the Bible be used in a science class. There are hundreds of religious that believe in creationism, there's also deists, and others that are less specific.

I'm saying that likely billions of people have common ground, believing there is a higher being that could manipulate matter/time/space, and the commonality could be taught, even if phrased like this.



"based on evidence and using the scientific method, scientists believe:]

"based on religious beliefs, but not backed by the scientific method, billions of others believe: "

I think it should be a discussion, an open dialogue, it should educate children based on different views in the world - not insisting on adopting the thought processes, but to give the children more to think about than the non proven theories of only one group of people.

Creationism was derived from the book of Genesis which came from the Bible your theory on this is complete moot because you're canceling out and nullifying your argument just like your Christian to make crap up to fit their agenda you, sir are a joke

a reply to: Woodcarver

It wouldn't be a course, or a major thing to study - it would be mentioned, and only expanded upon as much as a student inquires

It would look like one paragraph, page, or short chapter in a book named "alternative theories and beliefs" and would cover ideas that are aren't conventional. Ats is a website full of unconventional, we would be the "creationism" page in a mainstream media hand book.

It would sound like stating the facts. Fact: a huge amount of people believe a deity created this world, and universe.

It would not state beliefs.

It's about giving the student more to think about, more to explore, even if the exploration of creationism only magnifies their belief in science alone, at least a piece of legislation wasn't blocking them from reading about a widely held point of view in the world.

I suppose I'm mixing cultural studies, and such a bit with science but I definitely believe in teaching unconventional things - it's about expanding their world in all directions, showing them facts and beliefs (some call fiction) giving all sides of a story. It's about opening a kids mind as wide as it can go, and teaching them how to learn for themselves.

a reply to: AK907ICECOLD

There was different beliefs before the Bible, and many religions don't even use the Bible, and many people are spiritual and believe in coming from something greater and don't use religion. You're just using stereotypes.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So kids shouldn't be taught physics, biology, or chemistry either? Um... What?

Are you intentionally being obtuse?

I clearly stated that children should be taught science that can be reproduced by scientific method. Many things in biology, chemistry and simple physics can be proven by scientific method.

So can evolution and the big bang. You are being selective with your interpretation of science. The theory of evolution has more evidence supporting it than the theory of gravity.

And none of these classes are teaching the children interpersonal skills, life skills or environmental skills. So maybe we should focus less attention on indoctrination into pseudo-science and more time on life skills that many of our teens appear to be lacking.

That isn't science... You can teach kids these things, but thinking that you should teach it in replace of science is rather anti-intellectual.

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Teaching the unproven as fact? That's called religion buddy. Science doesn't work like that

Then why do you ridicule creationism? There is no imagined creation of the Universe that can be called scientific theory, yet here you are ridiculing people for believing God did it.

Yes there is. Just because you don't think so doesn't make it true. I ridicule Creationism because it is founded on a belief first then looks for evidence to prove it, which is against the scientific method and therefore isn't science.

If you think that evolution, abiogenesis, and the BBT are all pseudo-science, then lay out for me exactly WHERE those concepts violate the scientific method.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Those are great things to teach in a science class. Though none of them are Creationist topics. At least you have gotten around to staying consistent with what is and isn't science.

PS: Your second link talks about the same exact update to the BBT that I linked earlier.

I suppose we should just teach kids all kinds of things that aren't true and see how long it takes them to sort it all out? It could be ages.

People believe all kinds of things for dumb reasons. That's no reason to teach it in school. Astrology anyone?

a reply to: deadlyhope

"the big bang theory" has been abandoned by many scientists, for instance.

Do you have a link to anything that backs this statement up? Sincere request. I'd like to read it.
(ETA: Nevermind. I see you posted a link. Thanks.)
On topic:
Fine with me. Teach creation in philosophy class, and teach science in science class. Each where they belong.

a reply to: deadlyhope

"School is supposed to teach the kids to think for themselves, not to follow the agenda of one political party. "

O.k., you lost me right there, right off the bat. I'm assuming you're talking about the US American public school system. You obviously don't get or haven't been around a public school in a long time. If you had been you'd understand that there's a huge difference between the "ideal" and the reality. Sure.....in the ideal world schools are supposed to teach kids to think for themselves. In reality, the schools serve as intense and highly focused institutions of indoctrination; they don't really "teach", rather they indoctrinate and they do so following a well established agenda and they do so in such a manner as to make it appear to the numskulls that THEY were thinking and came up with the ideas themselves!

The problem with teaching "creationism" in the public schools, or even bringing up the topic, is that in maybe 1 out of 1000 kids there's always the "1" that can and actually does "think" for themselves and if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile and the next thing you know they're investigating horrible anti-government ideas like "Religion" (gasp in horror as on que).

Now.....here's the horror that would confront the "Establishment" if creationism/religious ideas were allowed to be introduced, if even in a small way in the schools. See, there's this thing called the "Declaration of Independence" and the "Constitution" and together they embrace the wrong headed idea that humanity is somehow endowed with certain "inalienable" rights by its "Creator".

So.....by teaching only "Evolution", the "Creator" is eliminated and then the truth can be taught, i.e., that humanity only has the rights granted to it by the "Government". If those rights are abused, or if circumstances change, then those "rights" can be modified or altogether removed.

Its all rather simple, don't you see. I'm sure now, after having read this you'll understand the error of your ways.

Have a great and godless weekend.

The problem with creationism, or "God created everything" then becomes...

"Who created God?"

Creationists hold to the fact that something can't come from nothing -- thus God.

I challenge them the same question. "God" is "something" -- so it/he can't come from nothing, right? Who created God? Shouldn't we be worshiping that which created God?

So apparently God can come from nothing according to creationists -- so why not the universe itself?

I should add that a lot of creationists claim God had no creator as God had no "begining" like the universe. So they'll claim God had no creator because God never "began". So we're supposed to be OK with something not having a beginning (God) just on what, "faith" alone?

This leads to all sorts of circular, slippery logic that you can't ever win at.

There is a lot of talk about the universe expanding and then contracting and then going through the big bang all over again, so we can't really say that the universe has a "beginning" -- there may have been an infinite number of universes prior to the one we live in.

We live on OUR universe, and there may be an infinite number of other universes. It's very small minded and silly to believe that our universe is the sole, singular, only and most important one.

originally posted by: Tearman
I suppose we should just teach kids all kinds of things that aren't true and see how long it takes them to sort it all out? It could be ages.

People believe all kinds of things for dumb reasons. That's no reason to teach it in school. Astrology anyone?

You mean like...
Santa claus
Tooth fairy
Boogey man
Easter Bunny
Hell, we may as add creationism to the list. Not sure how much more damage we can do to the little rug rats. I already feel sorry for any kid growing up in this world right now.

I love how there are sites for creationists to run to when the come up against a hard argument. This particular site tells creationists exactly what to say when asked with the question "who created God?"

So a more sophisticated questioner might ask: ‘If the universe needs a cause, then why doesn’t God need a cause? And if God doesn’t need a cause, why should the universe need a cause?’ In reply, Christians should use the following reasoning:

Everything which has a beginning has a cause.1
The universe has a beginning.
Therefore the universe has a cause.

creation.com

Can't have people questioning things on their own!

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Tearman
I suppose we should just teach kids all kinds of things that aren't true and see how long it takes them to sort it all out? It could be ages.

People believe all kinds of things for dumb reasons. That's no reason to teach it in school. Astrology anyone?

You mean like...
Santa claus
Tooth fairy
Boogey man
Easter Bunny
Hell, we may as add creationism to the list. Not sure how much more damage we can do to the little rug rats. I already feel sorry for any kid growing up in this world right now.

If we started having a lot of kids continue to cling onto those beliefs into adulthood, we would consider it a problem. And in that case, we wouldn't be telling kids in school that they are real.

Well when humans didn't understand something, we historically invented some kind of story to explain it. In the earliest days it was sun/moon worship -- later multiple gods responsible for every aspect of the world around us. There would be a god for rain, fire, good fortune, ect. . .

As we evolved, so did our 'gods' into one monotheistic deity. This is the natural progression of things, and eventually monotheism will be replaced by something else.

We now know that we can "poke" at things we don't understand with repeatable, reproducible experiments to learn more about our world (science) in order to expand our understanding. We no longer are beholden to invent myths, stories, and gods to explain that which is unknown.

originally posted by: Tearman

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Tearman
I suppose we should just teach kids all kinds of things that aren't true and see how long it takes them to sort it all out? It could be ages.

People believe all kinds of things for dumb reasons. That's no reason to teach it in school. Astrology anyone?

You mean like...
Santa claus
Tooth fairy
Boogey man
Easter Bunny
Hell, we may as add creationism to the list. Not sure how much more damage we can do to the little rug rats. I already feel sorry for any kid growing up in this world right now.

If we started having a lot of kids continue to cling onto those beliefs into adulthood, we would consider it a problem. And in that case, we wouldn't be telling kids in school that they are real.

Honestly, I was being somewhat sarcastic, but on a more serious note. What does it say about our society that we put these "entities" into our kids heads to start with? They may not grow up believing in them, but doesn't it condition them to believe in other things that aren't real either? Especially since every generation carries these childhood beliefs forward to the next? Just something to consider.

As much as I hate religion, I actually agree with the premise of the OP.

I believe creationism should be taught in in religious studies, with other religions interpretations of how the world came to be.

I believe evolution and other such subjects, mainly the big bang, should be taught in science classes.

At no point should they be mixed in the same classroom at higher education (high school/secondary school).

By doing so, it allows the child to decide the flaws in each perspective ( no flaws in science in my mind), inable critical thinking and promotes a level of cognitive reasoning that will help the child during his adult years. I will not discuss indoctrination as it is a separate subject mainly stemming from home.

Many members were raised religious, grateful for the morals but resentful for the lies and power exerted from those that "know". I feel without the two conflicting perpectives, many here would not have the ability to evaluate information without critical thinking and would just follow blindly the information provided. It will take away the drive to seek the truth (although I feel science provides many elements for that).

For me, if it wasn't for being raised catholic, I would not have questioned the things that those around me accepted. The clear fallacies (that one's for you...lol) allowed me to look further beyond scripture to truths I now know to be basic understandings of the world I live in.

Yes religion is bogus, so is creationism, but I am genuinely grateful for the exposure to it as it has made me the "intelligent" person I am today, that can accept the reasons behind people's perspectives, although I will still judge you.

If I could go back in time, I most probably wouldn't change my exposure to these myths. (Hate people that say they wouldn't change anything), as it confirms my belief in science and justifiable reasoning.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Tearman

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Tearman
I suppose we should just teach kids all kinds of things that aren't true and see how long it takes them to sort it all out? It could be ages.

People believe all kinds of things for dumb reasons. That's no reason to teach it in school. Astrology anyone?

You mean like...
Santa claus
Tooth fairy
Boogey man
Easter Bunny
Hell, we may as add creationism to the list. Not sure how much more damage we can do to the little rug rats. I already feel sorry for any kid growing up in this world right now.

If we started having a lot of kids continue to cling onto those beliefs into adulthood, we would consider it a problem. And in that case, we wouldn't be telling kids in school that they are real.

Honestly, I was being somewhat sarcastic, but on a more serious note. What does it say about our society that we put these "entities" into our kids heads to start with? They may not grow up believing in them, but doesn't it condition them to believe in other things that aren't real either? Especially since every generation carries these childhood beliefs forward to the next? Just something to consider.

I kind of feel that it has the opposite effect. They have the opportunity to reevaluate beliefs. Of course, there isn't a large group motivated to pressure adults to continue to believe in the easter bunny.