Creationism SHOULD be taught in school. ( alongside science theories! )

Are we still talking about this.....??

There is NO God.......whether Budda, God with a beard, Mohammed with a bigger beard or a.n.other man made creation......

OP - you asked for proof from anyone on ATS being 'several billion years old'.....?

In return can you offer me any proof of a divine being or God enabling creationism......?

The sooner you divorce politics and religion from ones life then the simpler and better LIFE becomes....

Regards

PDUK

a reply to: deadlyhope

Creationism is link to religion as it stands, is not way around, that is the problem, you can not talk about creation without religion.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So, back when "everything came from nothing" was popular, that wasn't vague?

That's extremely vague and unscientific. It's just a scapegoat to say "well we don't know.."

Tell me then, what the creation of the universe should look like on paper, for a kid to learn?

There's many theories, even in" science" on how the universe came about.

a reply to: marg6043

Deism, the supposed belief system of our forefathers, does make an effort to take away a lot of the religion aspect.

a reply to: deadlyhope

The scientific theory does not say that everything came from nothing. The only people i hear say that is creationists who don't like science. Perhaps you should learn the actual scientific theory before you go bashing it?

What is the theory of creationism?

a reply to: deadlyhope

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

Everyone keeps insisting I'm talking about religion. I'm not. I don't even claim a religion.

It's more like this.

No human is old enough to have the facts on the earth's creation, scientists have theories - ones they don't stick with for any length of time, but posit as fact for however long they want.

A huge amount of people on earth are religious and alongside believing in a creator, have other views, morals, lifestyles, etc.

I'm talking about teaching that commonality, not any one religion.

All theories about the creation of the universe are vague, and incomplete. Why are we insisting on forcing kids down only one line of thought, when it will change anyways, probably before they even graduate?

The theory of evolution is based on observational evidence. The theory of creationism is based on no evidence and strictly regional belief, therefore, it is a belief system versus a scientific theory.

Last time I checked, Kepler has not detected any cosmic tagging that screams "God was here dudes!".

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: cuckooold

I never mentioned the Bible. I think the Bible should be left out of Schools.

What you mentioned above is exactly why creationism is not taught in schools.

Scientific theory says something more like " Everything came from something we do not yet understand fully, but were trying to figure it out".

Religion (creationist theory) states that something that cannot be proven to exist in any way, form or fashion other than faith created everything, and you are not supposed to question this as it is a fact because the bible says so.

Which one would fall closer to the top of the potential for being BS scale to you?.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Within this thread ? The theory that a "supreme being" COULD explain how the universe came about.

All science says is could, might, maybe, conjecture, theory - then for some reason we are teaching it to kids as facts, even though those "facts" will change next year. And within fields like quantum physics combined with philosophy, might even change vastly, getting into things like virtual reality, holographic universes, etc.


I'm talking about adopting multiple working theories, and not leaving creationism out. I'm definitely not saying focus on creationism, that wouldn't give the kid a chance to think for themselves.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So, back when "everything came from nothing" was popular, that wasn't vague?

That isn't a scientific statement. It isn't even part of the Big Bang Theory since the theory doesn't say that "everything came from nothing". That whole argument is a strawman invented by disbelievers in the BBT.

That's extremely vague and unscientific. It's just a scapegoat to say "well we don't know.."

No, it's a strawman and not something said by scientists. Ever.

Tell me then, what the creation of the universe should look like on paper, for a kid to learn?

There's many theories, even in" science" on how the universe came about.

No, there is just the Big Bang Theory. That is the ONLY theory currently on the books to explain the start of space time. And the reason I say the creation of space time is because we aren't even sure if the BBT was actually the creation of the universe. The universe likely existed in a different state before the BBT, we just don't know how or what it looked like.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Because a theory only includes what can be proven. When more and more observations are made, the theory changes to accomodate the new data. If we had any reason to believe that a god made the universe, it would be included in the theory. My best advice is to study science. Then you could use it understand how the uni works. If there is a god under all these blankets, it will be science that finds it.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So, back when "everything came from nothing" was popular, that wasn't vague?

That's extremely vague and unscientific. It's just a scapegoat to say "well we don't know.."

Tell me then, what the creation of the universe should look like on paper, for a kid to learn?

There's many theories, even in" science" on how the universe came about.

why is it no one ever does their research before posting these threads?

we just went over this topic with randy, the lamb, servantofthelamb, edmc, and a few others who have similar difficulty absorbing information and a similar habit of blaming it on someone else.

creationism is a hypothesis, not a theory, and it should be taught in specialized schools or facilities not relied upon for general education, if it is taught at all. keep creationism in sunday school and we will keep evolution in actual school.

a reply to: deadlyhope

This is just my opinion, but I think math should be taught, and reading should be taught, and writing should be taught before creationism.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Woodcarver

Within this thread ? The theory that a "supreme being" COULD explain how the universe came about.

All science says is could, might, maybe, conjecture, theory - then for some reason we are teaching it to kids as facts, even though those "facts" will change next year. And within fields like quantum physics combined with philosophy, might even change vastly, getting into things like virtual reality, holographic universes, etc.


I'm talking about adopting multiple working theories, and not leaving creationism out. I'm definitely not saying focus on creationism, that wouldn't give the kid a chance to think for themselves.

Ok, there is a lot of the problem. You are using the term theory to describe a hypothesis. A theory is not a guess. It is the accumulation of all the observations and evidence. Anything that cannot be shown to be true, cannot be a part of a theory. Guesses and predictions which are not supported by evidence, are hypothesis.

In order for creationism to be accepted as a theory you would have to prove many other things first. Foremost, the existance of an actual deity, then we would have to show whether that deity has the ability to create universes.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

Everyone keeps dragging the Bible, and religion into this discussion and they do not have their place. I do not think religion should be taught at schools, nor should the Bible be used in a science class. There are hundreds of religious that believe in creationism, there's also deists, and others that are less specific.

I'm saying that likely billions of people have common ground, believing there is a higher being that could manipulate matter/time/space, and the commonality could be taught, even if phrased like this.

"based on evidence and using the scientific method, scientists believe:"

"based on religious beliefs, but not backed by the scientific method, billions of others believe: "

I think it should be a discussion, an open dialogue, it should educate children based on different views in the world - not insisting on adopting the thought processes, but to give the children more to think about than the non proven theories of only one group of people.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

Everyone keeps insisting I'm talking about religion. I'm not. I don't even claim a religion.

It's more like this.

No human is old enough to have the facts on the earth's creation, scientists have theories - ones they don't stick with for any length of time, but posit as fact for however long they want.

A huge amount of people on earth are religious and alongside believing in a creator, have other views, morals, lifestyles, etc.

I'm talking about teaching that commonality, not any one religion.

All theories about the creation of the universe are vague, and incomplete. Why are we insisting on forcing kids down only one line of thought, when it will change anyways, probably before they even graduate?

Most schools DO teach religion in the proper class: a religious studies elective. And it's presented in the proper manner: as a study of the various social constructs religions have provided, and the myths that they are based upon. The study of religion is the study of man's behavior, not the study of how anything else in the world works or came into being.

a reply to: Woodcarver

A theory is most definitely a guess.

"the big bang theory" has been abandoned by many scientists, for instance.

Quantum theory is far less constant and sure of itself than most.

Theories are just educated guesses that are accepted for a time until more evidence changes, or disband the theory.

If evidence shows us exactly how things happened, without question, in extreme details, I digress.

If not? Why teach kids "facts" aka beliefs that will change by the time their kids are in school, without teaching them all facets that people believe in?

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Woodcarver

A theory is most definitely a guess.

"the big bang theory" has been abandoned by many scientists, for instance.

Quantum theory is far less constant and sure of itself than most.

Theories are just educated guesses that are accepted for a time until more evidence changes, or disband the theory.

If evidence shows us exactly how things happened, without question, in extreme details, I digress.

If not? Why teach kids "facts" aka beliefs that will change by the time their kids are in school, without teaching them all facets that people believe in?

let me get this straight.

you have no intention of changing your mind or revising your stance in this matter.

what exactly is the point of this exchange then?