In the event of massive economic collapse what will happen to the welfare state

Hi

Throughout the past few years I have kept a close watch on all news in order to gain an insight as to where the economy is going. And I'm sure most of us know we are heading for very difficult times. Even today with all seeming well according to the white house and uk government we are officially in a recession.
During my preparation on what limited funds I have I have strives to inform people what to expect and to prepare. Even if I was wrong it would still benefit them with these kinds of savings. However most people would reply it would not affect them. These are very low earners and benefit claimants. Some disabled and some pensioners. But the same idea that it wouldn't affect them and even if it did what could they do.
Basically what I'm looking to discuss from a hypothetical view, is how would a world wide economic collapse affect the poorest and most vulnerable. I don't think the people I have talked to realise the welfare state which they rely upon will become massively bloated by a growing unemployment due to this collapse.

Therefore what becomes of the system and them?

My opinion is the welfare system will not be able to be maintained as the number of claimants will grow to unsupportable numbers and governments budgets will collapse due to losses in tax etc. Therefore the system would need changed, maybe under some kind of emergency law. Would this bring in rations? Some kind of food parcel system?
One thing is guaranteed I feel and that is there is no way the welfare state will exist after a prolonged economic downturn of these proportions.

Anyone have any input that may offer some hope for the poorest?

a reply to: liteonit6969

There is no hope for the poorest or you either as their massive, unaddressed needs will come knocking on your door soon after the bottom falls out of the local economy. Be prepared to share everything you have with those more unfortunate.

Still, in the end, you will become as they.

a reply to: liteonit6969

how would a world wide economic collapse affect the poorest and most vulnerable

They will die. Simple as that.
In a full blown economic meltdown, money will be next to worthless and govt assistance will be in the form of breadlines and soup kitchens. Even if folks on SS and other programs did get money, how far will it go when a loaf of bread is $20? The rich, famous and powerful will be taken care of, the rest of us are on our own. We will be looking at massive food riots, food trucks being hijacked, violent crime and drug use will skyrocket. People will kill for a sandwich. Imagine what you would do to get food for your children. Now, imagine that on a planet wide basis. Look at parts of Africa, with all it's starving children and you'll see what the rest of the world will become. The govts are juggling to stay afloat, but something has to give.

originally posted by: liteonit6969
Hi

Throughout the past few years I have kept a close watch on all news in order to gain an insight as to where the economy is going. And I'm sure most of us know we are heading for very difficult times. Even today with all seeming well according to the white house and uk government we are officially in a recession.
During my preparation on what limited funds I have I have strives to inform people what to expect and to prepare. Even if I was wrong it would still benefit them with these kinds of savings. However most people would reply it would not affect them. These are very low earners and benefit claimants. Some disabled and some pensioners. But the same idea that it wouldn't affect them and even if it did what could they do.
Basically what I'm looking to discuss from a hypothetical view, is how would a world wide economic collapse affect the poorest and most vulnerable. I don't think the people I have talked to realise the welfare state which they rely upon will become massively bloated by a growing unemployment due to this collapse.

Therefore what becomes of the system and them?

My opinion is the welfare system will not be able to be maintained as the number of claimants will grow to unsupportable numbers and governments budgets will collapse due to losses in tax etc. Therefore the system would need changed, maybe under some kind of emergency law. Would this bring in rations? Some kind of food parcel system?
One thing is guaranteed I feel and that is there is no way the welfare state will exist after a prolonged economic downturn of these proportions.

Anyone have any input that may offer some hope for the poorest?

Neither the US or UK is in a recession.
www.tradingeconomics.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">UK GDP Growth

www.tradingeconomics.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">US GDP Growth

Also, its highly doubtful things would get so bad as to collapse the ability to support welfare before a bounce back. Do you expect everything to just come to a halt, even with all of the liquidity in the markets? Money will be spent, production will increase. Wages may stagnate, which sucks.

The US Debt:GDP ratio is far, far better than it was in the aftermath of WWII (you may have to change the chart to "all data" at the link below to see it.
www.tradingeconomics.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">US Debt:GDP

I don't have input on what to do if welfare is stopped, except to accept a lower standard of living, or find a way to earn in cash or trade, if capable (I know not everyone is, whether due to physical or mental health.)

The advice I do have is to stay calm, don't panic, and know everything is extremely likely to be just fine.

a reply to: liteonit6969

Basically what I'm looking to discuss from a hypothetical view, is how would a world wide economic collapse affect the poorest and most vulnerable.

The poor are used to getting along with next to nothing, Its the whiny rich that will be most affected and cry the loudest… like they do now.

Extreme violence, rioting, then I would imagine cannibalism

a reply to: liteonit6969

I feel that you are absolutely right, but the fact is that the only people who matter, the vast majority of people who will be effected by the most serious consequences of a collapse have NO power to improve their situation, to plan for it, to affect change in their lives which might insulate them and protect them from a collapse, and its vast ripple effect.

Hell, I am the director of a small business, and I have no protection from the consequences of a genuine financial collapse, aside from my trusty billhook and a Bowie knife of course. Other than that, I am screwed if it all kicks off!

a reply to: DAVID64

I'm wondering why you think "drug use" would skyrocket. I understand the violent crime, but if everyone is in survival mode I don't quite see how drug use would become such a factor?

a reply to: dogstar23

Lol, the US or UK is not in a recession according to what data? The official government story is that the recession is over, just like they said "Mission Accomplished" in the middle east, yet look where we still are. The recession never stopped, and for some it is only getting worse. There are some that are experiencing slightly better times, but all you have to do is compare two charts to see it's all BS, the unemployment chart and the workforce participation chart.

Not far off looking like a zombie apocalypse with cannibalism lola reply to: dashen

a reply to: FamCore

Because many people turn to vices for coping mechanisms when faced with dire situations for extended periods of time. I would say that drug use and alcoholism would both increase drastically.

originally posted by: dashen
Extreme violence, rioting, then I would imagine cannibalism

A bit like Mad Max: Fury Road, imo, when all the folks are waiting at the Citadel for water rations.

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

dogs and cats living together, 

No.

a reply to: butcherguy

No worries. We can drop that and replace it with forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes. The dead rising from the grave.

All scarcity in the modern world is by design.




Years of people from other countries saying things like, "why don't the American people do something", and "as long as they have TV Americans will never revolt."

Yeah, no.

Being baited, cajoled, prodded, and provoked, for generations; we have shown the patients of Gandhi. To the point that it seems as though nothing can provoke us to take action. And this is true. We will not be provoked. But that doesn't mean that judgment day isn't coming.

It will happen like this.
When things start working, when justice seems to be on the upswing, when trust and faith in Authority seems restored, and the owners of this country have the media start celebrating how much better things are, how we made it, and how the dark days are behind us. Then, the hammers will start to fall.












All scarcity in the modern world is by design.


There are three times as many people in the USA as there were in 1913.

1913: 97,225,000

2010: 310,133,338



Here is a comparison of the GDPs from 1913 and 2009

1913: 39,100
2010: 14,237,200

14,237,200
/ 39,100
= 364.12


divided by the 3x population
364.12 / 3 = 121.37

In English that means our domestic product is 121 times more, per person, than it was in 1913.



Turns out America alone _could_ feed the entire world. Easily. But we pay farmers to leave their fields fallow. The owners of this country have discovered that if things are too good, military enlistment dries up.

All scarcity in the modern world is by design.







So . . . to answer you question "In the event of massive economic collapse what will happen to the welfare state?" Is: military enlistment will go up.

Mike Grouchy

edit on 16-10-2015 by mikegrouchy because: format

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: butcherguy

No worries. We can drop that and replace it with forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes. The dead rising from the grave.

That's more acceptable.

a reply to: mikegrouchy

I like it. You made us the Sith.

a reply to: butcherguy

I hear you. Some things are never acceptable, even in the apocalypse.

a reply to: dogstar23

Hi

Do you really believe that we aren't in a recession?

This is just one article that shows where we are.

link

We are literally only entering this massive collapse.