If You’re Not Paranoid, You’re Crazy

a reply to: machineintelligence

I mean seriously, most of that will never become a reality because the people will not allow it. Tech is advancing into newer realms faster than our ethical considerations can keep up for the moment, but we'll be pushing back and checking major intrusions as they creep up.

Hey, this isn't continuum, and the NSA did get their funding cut and massively bad PR for prism and sister programs not so long ago. We've shot down a lot of legislation meant to take away people's freedoms in the last decade.

Besides, I don't work for a corporation and never will. Feel sorry for those that do

a reply to: pl3bscheese

"The people will not allow it"

Really? They hardly understand what is going down. How exactly will they collectively not allow it when you consider the influence of informed and profit and control driven special interests on our system of governance? .

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: machineintelligence

I mean seriously, most of that will never become a reality because the people will not allow it. Tech is advancing into newer realms faster than our ethical considerations can keep up for the moment, but we'll be pushing back and checking major intrusions as they creep up.

Hey, this isn't continuum, and the NSA did get their funding cut and massively bad PR for prism and sister programs not so long ago. We've shot down a lot of legislation meant to take away people's freedoms in the last decade.

Besides, I don't work for a corporation and never will. Feel sorry for those that do

The problem with this is that much legislation has double meanings. They use deliberately vague language that if broken down by a judge will be inferred to apply to a wide range of situations that perhaps were unintentional or intentional.

Most people have no idea what majority of the bills passed through parliament means. The bill authors make these things thousands of pages long to create confusion. They do this so that the legislators voting on it can barely be bothered reading it, skim over it, think they understand what it means but when dissected by a judge is able to be applied to a wide scope of situations. The public never reads these bills either and most have no idea they've even been passed. There's a lot of very worrying legislation being passed that is not reported by the media.

For instance, a bill was passed not long ago that edicts that the assets in your bank account are no longer yours but are in fact property of the bank. In Australia where I'm from, they have introduced anti-association laws. These laws were advertised as a way to prosecute biker clubs. But the bill makes no reference to this, it is defined as a group of three or more people getting together for a common cause. This means the gov can now prosecute any group doing anything the government deems illegal/unacceptable. Later this could be used to prosecute resistance groups, clubs, anti war protestors, anything they see fit. They were passed under the guise of safety as is common and most people didn't even think twice about it, presuming it would only apply to illegal groups. But instead it applies to THEM...ANYBODY! Yet people do not even realise this. A lot of legislation is passed claiming to only focus on one thing, but it is all double speak. The common person has very little knowledge of the law and how legislation is applied. This is how they manage to blindside people and strip away their right to congregate in groups without them even realising.

a reply to: machineintelligence

Leaders, plain and simple. You get people who understand it to transfer the information in a way to average people so that they can comprehend it.

a reply to: Redlisted

I agree with pretty much everything you've written. Double meaning and massive piles of jabber for what should probably be a much more simple bill is a problem right now. Not gonna lie and say we got this without a bunch of screw ups happening in the process, but I do have overall faith in people's common sense to push back on the oppression from time to time. If we look at particular points in history, small time frames we can find great evil, but the overall trend has been increased standards of living and freedom to choose how to live their lives. I see no reason to think this trend will reverse anytime soon.

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: machineintelligence

Leaders, plain and simple. You get people who understand it to transfer the information in a way to average people so that they can comprehend it.

But what's to say they do not have an ulterior motive?

If we rely solely on our leaders to disseminate and translate information so it is able to be understood by the common man, we are only being exposed to what they want you to think it is and not what it is in reality.

Our reliance on authority to disseminate info to us and trust it is accurate is dangerous. It can be skewed to serve any agenda; cherry picking the info they wish and leaving out the rest.

a reply to: Redlisted

Please note when I said, "leaders" I was not talking of a figure in a political position of authority, though this could be the case. Ulterior motives are common with people, but the fear of them should not dissuade us from taking in other's perspectives and running it through our good sense. When I think of a "leader" within the context of this thread, I'm looking for a real journalist, scientist, engineer, entrepreneur, political scientist, economist, and forth. We need to listen to people who have earned the respect of the common man by virtue of their wisdom and knowledge of issues which effect us all.

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: Redlisted

I agree with pretty much everything you've written. Double meaning and massive piles of jabber for what should probably be a much more simple bill is a problem right now. Not gonna lie and say we got this without a bunch of screw ups happening in the process, but I do have overall faith in people's common sense to push back on the oppression from time to time. If we look at particular points in history, small time frames we can find great evil, but the overall trend has been increased standards of living and freedom to choose how to live their lives. I see no reason to think this trend will reverse anytime soon.

Not anymore... If anything our standards of living are decreasing. The debt is completely out of control right now. I think it's something like 1.5 mill for every person in the USA, yet the avg person has average assets of 300k. That figure alone proves the debt cannot be paid today, tomorrow, next year or the next century. It's only increasing while the middle class is being eradicated bitt by bit. Soon there will only be two classes. Poor and super rich.

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: Redlisted

Please note when I said, "leaders" I was not talking of a figure in a political position of authority, though this could be the case. Ulterior motives are common with people, but the fear of them should not dissuade us from taking in other's perspectives and running it through our good sense. When I think of a "leader" within the context of this thread, I'm looking for a real journalist, scientist, engineer, entrepreneur, political scientist, economist, and forth. We need to listen to people who have earned the respect of the common man by virtue of their wisdom and knowledge of issues which effect us all.

this is true. However a lot of these experts are in the establishments pocket, and those that are not are not given publicity. We are exposed to a great deal of tainted information.

originally posted by: Redlisted


Not anymore... If anything our standards of living are decreasing.

Whose standards of living, and within which time frame? There's still plenty of people who are experiencing increased standards of living around the globe. I certainly have in the 21st century.

The debt is completely out of control right now. I think it's something like 1.5 mill for every person in the USA, yet the avg person has average assets of 300k. That figure alone proves the debt cannot be paid today, tomorrow, next year or the next century. It's only increasing while the middle class is being eradicated bitt by bit. Soon there will only be two classes. Poor and super rich.

It's a sham, and hasn't made sense for a long while now. It seems to make little sense to connect these figures to standards of living in any real meaningful way.

Do keep in mind that in advanced nations this "eroding middle class" is still well beyond the majority of inhabitants on the planet. In a sense, a redistribution is taking effect, but it's less talked about compared to the uber elite's greed.

a reply to: Redlisted

Hence the inherent freedom provided by the dissemination of information via the internet.

Whose standards of living, and within which time frame? There's still plenty of people who are experiencing increased standards of living around the globe. I certainly have in the 21st century.

most are still in a good standard of living, but i don't think that living standards are increasing on the whole. unemployment and wealth distribution inequality is on the rise. some people are just more affected than other groups. the west of course mainly has a good standard of living, on average, but in a lot of nations there is a huge financial bubble that is getting ready to bust. australia is a good example. my generation is finding it impossible to buy a house and are priced out of the system due to the INSANE house prices. the median house price in melbourne is 660K. sydney is even worse. wages are high in australia but still not enough to make up for the CRAZY cost of living. since the privatisation of the gas, electric and water industries prices have become totally unsustainable. cut offs to these services are rising quickly. they charge outrageous prices simply because they can. all these factors are contributing to a decrease in average living standards.

It's a sham, and hasn't made sense for a long while now. It seems to make little sense to connect these figures to standards of living in any real meaningful way.

they connect, because it is a symptom of the greater problem. the debt simply cannot be paid and once the loans are defaulted on, assuming that does happen as it does seem quite likely, the economy will bust and many people who were once comfortable will be plunged into poverty.

it is true that in the west standards of living are much higher than elsewhere in the world where many do not even have access to basic electricity or running water as the west is made up of largely rich, developed nations with a high gdp. what we consider terrible living standards is normal to them. but the way developed nations are set up, it is much harder to survive without money in these nations than it is in poorer countries as they have less expenses, are more reliant on the land etc, skills the west lost long ago. it could be said however that the reason these living standards are in such contrast with one another is no accident. it's well known that banks have deliberately bankrupted these nations with a perpetual cycle of debt that simply cannot be repaid in order to 'keep them down' and keep them from becoming a potential threat to their own economy. africa is a good example of this.

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: Redlisted

Hence the inherent freedom provided by the dissemination of information via the internet.

and thank GOD for that!

too bad most people don't consider any information they don't hear from an 'official' 'government-approved' source as valid information, however, and don't even bother to do further research. sigh.

a reply to: Redlisted

You sure about that?



I have a very funky view on this all. I don't think unemployment should be an indication of prosperity within a nation, or health of an economy. I think we need to reassess our understanding of economy, and redo the social contract. If we can provide basic needs to the average man, then a living standard and basic income should be established regardless of employment status. The idea is being bounced around by a lot of big thinkers right now, and testing for viability is going on in small community circles right now to my knowledge.

My mother is in the apartment management business, so I do get to see this flight from homes to apartments even in the US. Those homes still exist, and hopefully we can figure out how to make sense of what is already built out and make good use of it for those who need it. Still, the crunch leads to adaptations that don't necessarily entail a decreased standard of living. People have to get resourceful, clever, and in some cases this can be strengthening to a local community. There's a lot of sharing of space going on, heck I'm about to go live with my Paps in a house starting next month. He got divorced, and it makes most sense. Looking forward to spending some quality time with him before he gets a bit too worn out.

You know how my standard of living increased recently? This amazon prime now thing. Used to take me a few days to get stuff in from Amazon, now I can get it within the next 2hr block, same day! My internet speed has gone from dial-up, to dsl, cable, and now fiber at 1gbps symmetrical, no caps enforced. Freaking amazing!

Africa is not a good example. The standards of living have increased quite a bit in spite of the banks shennanigans. Lots of this has come through donations and grants/trusts setup over the last half century. Asia and Africa have risen considerably in the last 30 years, and will continue to do so in the coming years.

Guess I'm more optimistic and seeing through the bansta's shenanigans to the end result which will be some sort of debt jubilee, and a reassessment of values, beliefs, and so forth. The system can't keep on as it is, and yet we see plenty of improvements all around in spite of their machinations.

a reply to: Redlisted

Oh I don't think this is true for the U35 bunch. The terrain they grew up under necessitated a viewing of "official" information in different light than their elders at the time. It's quite common for millennials to get their information online, and outside of corporate-sponsored sources.

yeah that's definitely true. i feel like the group of souls incarnated in that group is different to those of the past. it's almost like we've been placed here for a reason... to expose and break down the system.

our parents generation barely ever suspected any sort of conspiracy within the establishment. the information just wasn't available. this generation is different. of course, many still rely only on the mainstream, but that number is decreasing everyday. their hold over us is slipping and they know it.

trying to convince my mother of any foul play in the establishment is absolutely impossible. no matter what, she will not accept any information or evidence, now matter how valid, unless it seems to come from something 'official'. their brainwashing has been very effective lol. wonder how long it'll be until the internet freedom is taken away too.

a reply to: Aliensun

So you waltz into Walmart and buy a box of .22 bullets to use on some tin cans and pull out your credit card for the payment. Where do you think that data goes, "Poof" into thin air never to be know by man or machine?

Credit cards are not private. It's money borrowed from the bank and money deals with taxes; so that involves the bank and the government.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Freedom of information act.