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The thousandth Sanders thread: we should vote for him loud and clear.

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posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 04:39 PM
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a reply to: amicktd

I've made many posts on that addressing size and scope of government and tax reform. I've even addressed entitlement reform within the context of the first two without necessarily cutting the monetary value of entitlement payouts but while still reducing spending and size and scope of government.




posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Thanks for quoting Carlin, he was really funny; too bad there isn't anyone like him anymore.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 05:16 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

It would be interesting to see a list of promises made and promises kept. (Is the second one empty?)



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: StanFL

Most keep some promises, or a version of the promise. That way their approval doesn't drop so low they could be impeached.

But if we vote in Sanders under the premise that he'll keep this one promise, and he doesn't deliver... It will be a much bigger deal than not keeping a small promise to a minority.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 05:33 PM
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originally posted by: FamCore
While having almost the same principles as that of socialism, democratic socialism


You realize a meadow muffin is still a cow turd, right? We're to a point where almost half of America is on the dole in some form or other... the subtle difference between "the state" and "democratic choice" becomes far less clear when the majority of Americans view redistributive socialism as their Meal Ticket. The end result is the same: Those who are presently overtaxed will become crushed under taxes to the point where we want on the dole, too.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

That's a bit misleading. These aren't his figures, they're figures drawn up by pundits trying to estimate the cost of everything he says he wants to implement minus the reasoning behind them. 18T would include the cost of free public college for everyone... but the bulk of that 18T would be for converting to single payer healthcare, 15T according to the same estimates. What WSJ didn't mention with that hit piece and grab onto your oh sht handle, title... is that our current health care system over the same ten year span is going to cost us (grab onto the oh sht handle now) 42T (out of pocket and government funded combined).

Washi ngton Post



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

" I agree that he he passion, and fire and can better speak to the people. "


So did Karl Marx . Look how that Worked out for the Peasants in Russia , Comrade.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 06:28 PM
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America already incorporated socialism 70 years ago. National socialism, which had the characteristics of industrialized warfare, police and surveillance state, corporate welfare and protectionism, and gun registries; to name a few.

We don't need more of this.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Why do people keep relating America to the rest of the world? We are not them. We have four year terms, not communism with unlimited terms. Too big of steps towards communism, or totalitarianism, and there would be revolt.

When it comes to who seems evil, the Clintons have an assumed amount of blood on their hands that make other "evil politicians" look like boy scouts.

Trump is part of the regime he is promising to go up against.

Nothing about his voting record or past says he is an evil dictator type that wants to take over and do evil things... There's no sign of that, if there is, let me know.

We need to learn from the past, but stop using it in unparallel examples.

Nice and charismatic doesn't mean someone instantly wants to kill millions of people and run concentration camps.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: GodEmperor

Who says we will get more of it? Sure, certain social programs may be more efficient and reach more people, sure the banks and corps out of control will be footing that bill, but where's the proof that he will change America for the worse more so than others ?

His promise to take on the elite is all I need to want to vote for him, none of the others could be held accountable for something so big, they fiddle around with partisan issues.

We need reform. If he does it? Cool!

It he doesn't? We need to.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

" Nice and charismatic doesn't mean someone instantly wants to kill millions of people and run concentration camps. "


Ever see Pictures of Josef Stalin ? He was ALWAYS Smiling . Why ? Because He Knew what the People Did Not .....



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

If we are a nation of laws, then any law must apply equally to all. What s taken from them can also then be taken from you.

Or has it not escaped your notice that under the guise of sticking it to The Man, very often it is the middle class that shoulders the burden? How do you think the present administration can spend two terms sticking it to The Man while The Man just gets richer? It's because the law also targets the middle class.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Uncle Joe was a nickname for a reason.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 07:13 PM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Why do people keep relating America to the rest of the world? We are not them. We have four year terms, not communism with unlimited terms. Too big of steps towards communism, or totalitarianism, and there would be revolt.

When it comes to who seems evil, the Clintons have an assumed amount of blood on their hands that make other "evil politicians" look like boy scouts.

Trump is part of the regime he is promising to go up against.

Nothing about his voting record or past says he is an evil dictator type that wants to take over and do evil things... There's no sign of that, if there is, let me know.

We need to learn from the past, but stop using it in unparallel examples.

Nice and charismatic doesn't mean someone instantly wants to kill millions of people and run concentration camps.


Very well-put OP, I agree with you entirely.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 07:18 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ketsuko

That's a bit misleading. These aren't his figures, they're figures drawn up by pundits trying to estimate the cost of everything he says he wants to implement minus the reasoning behind them. 18T would include the cost of free public college for everyone... but the bulk of that 18T would be for converting to single payer healthcare, 15T according to the same estimates. What WSJ didn't mention with that hit piece and grab onto your oh sht handle, title... is that our current health care system over the same ten year span is going to cost us (grab onto the oh sht handle now) 42T (out of pocket and government funded combined).

Washi ngton Post


Doesn't matter. $18T is $18T that he wants to spend.

Also, out of pocket expense is private money and should not be added to the $42T. The only reason you would do so is to engage in the same oh sht tactics. Look! You made your number bigger and scarier.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 07:24 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

It's entirely fair to include out of pocket in tallying the cost of health care as it is now over a ten year period because with single payer no one would be paying out of pocket.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 10:29 PM
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From my perspective Bernie wants billionaires to pay their fair share of taxes, stop taking handouts from the taxpayers when they need us then bail on us and move jobs overseas when they don't need us. I don't think he wants to hand anyone the American dream but to give us all the best possible environment to achieve that dream.

From my perspective there are distinct differences between Socialism, National Socialism, and Democratic Socialism. Bernie is a Democratic Socialist. We are moving towards an Oligarchy. What about all the big money that dictates politicians support? What about the ability for huge billionaire corporations to donate unlimited amounts of money to campaigns?

What about all the lobbyist in politics as we know it today? I think there is a lot of fear associated with the word socialism. But again, from my perspective Democratic Socialism still has capitalistic ideas within its framework but has a social safety net and promotes people over profit.

When billionaires openly claim they pay as little in taxes as their secretaries that doesn't seem like a fair share to me. For example: Boeing, General Electric and Verizon have paid NO federal taxes in recent years. Global Financial Integrity, a financial watchdog agency, estimates that global corporations and wealthy individuals are hiding a total of over $21 trillion.

For example, the report explains Jetblue, PG&E, PEPCO Holdings, and Ryder used accelerated depreciation a tax break that allows companies to write off the cost of their capital investments much faster than these investments wear out, to dramatically reduce their tax rates. CTJ has estimated that closing the accelerated depreciation loophole could raise more than $428 billion over the next decade.

They have took nothing from me, still I want them to pay their fair share of taxes like I do. Sander's points to the Scandinavian governments as his model of Democratic Socialism. Those countries are working hard, have health care, education, and an overall good quality of life.

They have produced world shaping companies like Volvo, IKEA, AstraZeneca, Electrolux, Ericsson, H&M, Skype, Solvatten, Spotify, Peepoople, and Wrapp for example. Surely they must have an incentive to be successful. Social democrats like Sanders want to ensure that every person has access to housing, health care, education, meaningful employment, and transportation.

Reducing economic inequality, removing the rigged influence of the rich on our political system, and importantly, preventing climate change. Sanders wants to make our taxation system more progressive by ensuring the rich pay their fair share, given how much they benefit from the labor of others.

He wants to ensure that every person has access to food, shelter, health care, and a good-paying job. I think it's a good alternative to what we have now, and if given the chance perhaps it can really thrive

I agree that Sanders needs to outline what exactly "fair share" of taxes is in his vision, but we can still research and see that some in particular billionaires and corporations are obviously not paying their fair share. Some say that using tax dollars to aid the betterment of mankind is stealing, aka theft.

How is it stealing if you can receive something in return? If someone steals my wallet that's obviously theft. I'm getting nothing in return! When we pay our taxes, in return our government gives us education, transportation, healthcare, safe food, protection and a commitment to justice, social security, medicare, medicaid, disability insurance, unemployment insurance, FEMA, USDA, and civilization just to name a few perks.

Democratic Socialism is taxpayer funds being used collectively to benefit society as a whole, despite income, contribution, or ability. With this, there is also redistribution and welfare for citizens in the event of sickness, poverty, and old age.

What thief gives you the opportunity to decide where your money is spent or even how much? The US government still has to listen to the will of We The People. We choose what tax system and how much if any we should have when we vote. If taxation truly was stealing, there would be another political party emerge to represent We The People in a heartbeat and it would win by a landslide victory!

Listen, we all have a right as citizens to these benefits but we obviously all have a collective responsibility to pay our fair share of taxes for these services if able. We all have a right and what I think is a responsibility to vote, but we also have a responsibility to accept the outcome no matter if our chosen representative wins or not.

Do we not have a moral responsibility to the elderly, children, sick, or disabled? I believe we do. What's wrong with We The People collectively exercising that responsibility through our elected officials and government? Especially, when we can all improve our quality of life and environment through this portal as a collective whole.

When we are successful, did we not build upon the work of previous generations? Did we not receive some assistance from other members of society? What about energy, education, health, and public roads? Did those benefits not help us to become successful and provide us the environment we needed to take full advantage of and reach our potential?

Is it not then fair to pay into the environment and support it? I realize our current system is not fully working as intended and that is why I want Bernie Sanders to become the next POTUS. That's my opinion, thoughts, and belief.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 10:34 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ketsuko

It's entirely fair to include out of pocket in tallying the cost of health care as it is now over a ten year period because with single payer no one would be paying out of pocket.


No, they'll just never have any cash in their pockets in the first place.

To the OP: A vote for Sanders is a vote for regressive policies that take away liberty and personal property. No thanks.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 10:35 PM
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a reply to: Gumerk

Your fingers have a lot of endurance, thanks for the reply, though.



posted on Oct, 14 2015 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

How's that?

He's a democratic socialist, not a commie for the record.

He thinks billionaires should pay their fair share,and we should have a higher quality of life.

What's wrong with this picture? Other than maybe, maybe too good to be true.



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