Richard Dawkins & Smash of Dinosaur / Human Footprints

a reply to: anton74

You can say the same thing about the creation side of the argument. Either the science backs up your argument or it does not.

And I do...I do say the same thing about the creation side of the argument....

However, I think you may have missed my point. Say for example, I'm reviewing one of your papers. It may be a good start to know where you stand beforehand. If I know you think hydrogen peroxide helps in the whitening of teeth and your research backs your statement up, there is the POSSIBILITY(different than probability) that confirmation bias played a part in your conclusion. However, if you think hydrogen peroxide assists in the whitening of teeth and your research finds OTHERWISE, then it is not likely to have been influenced by your biases.

So my original statement stands. What you believe DOES matter.

A2D

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
I'm sure you realize there are things that prohibit someone from being schooled in every matter of science...one such thing being funding...There are reasons higher education costs money....

Well you can't help those options. In a perfect world, such things wouldn't be a hindrance. Too bad we aren't anywhere close to a perfect world yet.

So...have you carbon dated fossils? ...Have you examined DNA structures?.... Have you examined the cosmic microwave background radiation?... After having studied them, did you then proceed to, as you put it, form your "own conclusions"?...

Please tell me you examined the evidence in a lab and not on the internet....

A2D

I don't have access to labs, but I can get access to research papers and read them. I may not be able to reproduce their experiments, but if I can understand their findings I can still interpret their evidence.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I surely hope you grasp at least the concept of what I'm getting at though. I don't mean to drag this out with riddles and questions, it's simply the best way I know to actually get people to question things. Not saying that you don't question what you're taught, but rather it's more of a comfort to myself to know that there are respectable people with honest work out there.

I've researched many scientific principles and topics, of which I'll be the first to admit very little understanding. I have no idea how the brain actually functions. I must take the "experts" word for truth. I have no idea how to interpret the cosmic microwave background radiation. So again, I must take the 'experts" word for truth. I can look at these things and logically reason that the scientific explanations "seem valid", but alas, there are many cunning individuals out there who would sell a dead bird to a blind man....

Faith in god is one thing...(delusional at worst)
Faith in man is a whole 'nother can of worms...(demonstrably delusional!)

A2D

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Eliminating all possibilities leaving one doesn't make it the truth. It makes it the most probable of choices thus far, but that is skipping ahead saying it is a fact. Look at medicine, many treatments or pills are pushed forward on the market as being safe and settled, but we know that is not always the case. Similar Same goes for physics or our understanding of food, pollution on the human body,etc.

Time reveals everything. For now I can only believe is my ultimate stance.

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: anton74

You can say the same thing about the creation side of the argument. Either the science backs up your argument or it does not.

And I do...I do say the same thing about the creation side of the argument....

However, I think you may have missed my point. Say for example, I'm reviewing one of your papers. It may be a good start to know where you stand beforehand. If I know you think hydrogen peroxide helps in the whitening of teeth and your research backs your statement up, there is the POSSIBILITY(different than probability) that confirmation bias played a part in your conclusion. However, if you think hydrogen peroxide assists in the whitening of teeth and your research finds OTHERWISE, then it is not likely to have been influenced by your biases.

So my original statement stands. What you believe DOES matter.

A2D

No, you seem to be unable to comprehend. You can question me or my research without bring your beliefs into it. Either the claim is true or false, what you believe has nothing to do with it. Why is that so hard to understand?

a reply to: anton74

:facepalm:

Yes, I can question your research without bringing my beliefs into it. However, I would like to know YOUR HYPOTHESIS before I know your conclusion....This makes it easier to detect confirmation bias.... Your "hypothesis" when it comes to a creator/deity, would be the equivalent of your "belief"....

Why is it so hard to understand that I need to know what you think the outcome will be before I see your results? Have you never participated in a middle school science fair project?

I'll break it down middle school style for you...
It might go a little somethin like this....


You notice something, and wonder why it happens. You see something and wonder what causes it. You want to know how or why something works. These are called your initial observations and it's the very beginning of the scientific process.

2nd step...Research
You research your initial observations. You might read books, magazines, scholarly articles, or even ask professionals.

3rd step...Intent of your research
Using your observations and/or questions, state the intent of your research. What do you want to find out?

5th step...Identify variables
Make an educated guess about what types of things affect the system you are working with or within...this should all be based on the information you have gathered in your research process.

6th step...Form a hypothesis
A hypothesis is a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation. To form your hypothesis, gather all the information you have acquired and make an educated guess as to the outcome of your questions.

7th step...Test your hypothesis
Design an experiment to test your hypothesis.

8th step...Perform aforementioned experiments and record your observations; Summarize
Once you do your experiments you can record what happened.

9th step...Draw conclusions
After all is said and done, you can then draw your conclusions. Is your original hypothesis backed up by your experiment?


A2D

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

When it comes to topics that I can't fully get my head around, I try not to form a definite opinion about it. I'd hold my opinion until I understood it better than form an opinion without all the facts.

a reply to: bitsforbytes

Correct. I was only speaking abstractly. In reality you cannot reduce the probability to 0%, but you can make it as close as possible. When it comes to deciding where I'm going to place my trust, I'm going to trust the most probable outcomes.

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

Most experiments in science are peer reviewed and published. They are made public knowledge so that anybody with the means can try to duplicate the experiments for themselves. This is why we trust scientists. The work is out there for anybody else to scrutinize and review. It isn't just blind faith in man. It's verified duplicated work done by tons of scientists to make sure the findings are correct. Before peer review existed, you would have a point, but it exists, so if somebody has doubts they can double check.

Also our society is built on trusting experts. Would it not make sense to bring your computer to a computer repair technician to fix it? Would you not go to the car mechanic to repair your car? Or would that be blind faith that they know what they are doing, despite being trained and having tons of experience? Because of this, I trust scientists with science. If you wish to distrust folks that have been trained in the fields and methods they research, then that's your own prerogative, but suggesting it requires faith to believe science is counter productive.

I guess I'll never have blind faith in an architect or mechanical engineer again. We can't keep trusting experts. It's just like trusting religion!

originally posted by: crazyewok

Yeah im a Christian and please dont lump me in with YEC dip#s .

...There should be no divisions in the House. Christ refers to Adam and Eve (Matthew 19:4, Mark 10:6) and the full lineages from Jesus to Adam is given in Luke 3:23-38. "Christians" shouldn't be calling Christians dips#.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: crazyewok

Yeah im a Christian and please dont lump me in with YEC dip#s .

...There should be no divisions in the House. Christ refers to Adam and Eve (Matthew 19:4, Mark 10:6) and the full lineages from Jesus to Adam is given in Luke 3:23-38. "Christians" shouldn't be calling Christians dips#.

Im sorry but those who cling to the YEC crap have no relevance to me.

If anything you give the rest of us a bad name as loonys.

The universe is 15 billion years old get over it.

The "days" in genesis are just placeholders for a period of time. Plus most of genesis is meant as parables and symbols written but desert dweller who knew little science and if god had shown them things they would have have limited means to express themselves in writing.

Not to mention the older books have been translated and re translated over and over again. Thats not even getting into the terratory of whether corrupt religious leaders have tampered with some of the writing.


Needless to say. The big bang and evolution are not the why but the mechanisms of creation.

Hell why is God setting the universe in motion through such methods as evolution any harder to belive that god clicking his fingers and animals appearing out of thin air!

Dawkins knows nothing.....just because he writes a book or two does not make him an expert....
He is talking as a person that has not yet had jesus come into his life spiritually...
There are many supernatural things going on in this world that he has no clue about...and that goes for the rest of you that follow him..
At the end of the day it is between you and God...I pity those that live in ignorance..

Have a nice day

originally posted by: jon1
There are many supernatural things going on in this world that he has no clue about...and that goes for the rest of you that follow him..

Care to name few??

Your post makes me wonder do you even know who is Dawkins...

a reply to: SuperFrog
He has since written several popular science books, and makes regular television and radio appearances, predominantly discussing these topics. In his 2006 book The God Delusion, Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that religious faith is a delusion...

Need i say more...

originally posted by: crazyewok

The universe is 15 billion years old get over it.

Needless to say. The big bang and evolution are not the why but the mechanisms of creation.

Hell why is God setting the universe in motion through such methods as evolution any harder to belive that god clicking his fingers and animals appearing out of thin air!

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to." (Mthw 23:13)

This statement still holds true today. Keep searching and don't let others make conclusions for you.

a reply to: SuperFrog

As for supernatural things going on in this world, you would not understand and therefor you would ridicule it...
been here to long to fall into that trap..

originally posted by: jon1
a reply to: SuperFrog

As for supernatural things going on in this world, you would not understand and therefor you would ridicule it...
been here to long to fall into that trap..

Describing an interaction with the divine.... Equally as difficult as defining love with logic.

a reply to: cooperton

he has stated his belief and i would love him to find god in his heart...I have found him but to many people quote him as if he knows all the answers...believe me, he doesn't..

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: jon1
a reply to: SuperFrog

As for supernatural things going on in this world, you would not understand and therefor you would ridicule it...
been here to long to fall into that trap..

Describing an interaction with the divine.... Equally as difficult as defining love with logic.

I could tell you things that have happened in my life and have witnesses to it but would you believe me..no, so what is the point of telling you..

originally posted by: jon1
a reply to: SuperFrog

As for supernatural things going on in this world, you would not understand and therefor you would ridicule it...
been here to long to fall into that trap..

You might be right... I probably would never understand it... never did, never will...

Simply because there are no supernatural things, just like there is no Zeus, Athena, Amon RA, Horus, Allah... just to name few, except in Hollywood and movies... there, everything is possible... even ship that holds all animals except some not so cool animals your almighty decided is not worth keeping... together with rest of human kind...
And then, some generations later with lots of incest in beginning... here we are today...