Protesters gather to hold anti-Islam rally outside Phoenix mosque

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

I would say burden of proof is to show there were, but hey, I don't have an agenda here....OP obviously does citing incorrect sources.

Not that I want to argue with you ... but you do realize that OP's first source is Fox News, right?

Are you saying their report was incorrect in some way?

Yep...and no mention of guns in it.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Did you notice the photo linked in the OP? /taadaa

Yes, thank you for the primer on intimidation. You seem quite expert in the idea.

I have no real quibble with protestors outside any religious institution. Personally, if I thought it would do any good in reducing irrationality and hate that is spewed from many of these places, I'd be out with signs every Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

It wouldn't, though.

What is "nut job partisanship" ... the folks protesting? The folks commenting on the protest?

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

I would say burden of proof is to show there were, but hey, I don't have an agenda here....OP obviously does citing incorrect sources.

Not that I want to argue with you ... but you do realize that OP's first source is Fox News, right?

Are you saying their report was incorrect in some way?

Yep...and no mention of guns in it.

Is there a mention of guns in the second link that the OP comment introduced?

/shrug

Would you address the real issue? Is it okay with you for folks to show up with firearms outside a religious service, or not?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Did you notice the photo linked in the OP? /taadaa

Yes, thank you for the primer on intimidation. You seem quite expert in the idea.

I have no real quibble with protestors outside any religious institution. Personally, if I thought it would do any good in reducing irrationality and hate that is spewed from many of these places, I'd be out with signs every Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

It wouldn't, though.

What is "nut job partisanship" ... the folks protesting? The folks commenting on the protest?

The photo from May?

Nut job partisanship is people who only support rights they agree with or will support a right as long as that right is only expressing things they agree with. But will try and rationalize why someone they disagree with should not be using the same rights to express their beliefs.

I may not like it, but I am open and support protests where people and property are not being hurt. No talking feelings hurt or offended. Also intimidation only works if you allow it. Wonder what would happen if all the Muslims started laughing at the protestors?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

I would say burden of proof is to show there were, but hey, I don't have an agenda here....OP obviously does citing incorrect sources.

Not that I want to argue with you ... but you do realize that OP's first source is Fox News, right?

Are you saying their report was incorrect in some way?

Yep...and no mention of guns in it.

Is there a mention of guns in the second link that the OP comment introduced?

/shrug

Would you address the real issue? Is it okay with you for folks to show up with firearms outside a religious service, or not?

Only in the title, with a pic from a protest months earlier...like I said...stock photo NOT from the protests the OP is talking about.

Prove anyone showed up with a firearm at this one and I'll have a debate. Until then, the OP story says nothing about guns being involved at all.

Like I said before....weapons were not reported at this event, and nobody is going to report that no weapons were at the event.

The only show of weapons is from a pic from 5 months before this event.....

See the OP clearly states:

originally posted by: Southern Guardian


Ah yes they came with automatic rifles as well.... lovely. Harassing and intimidating others:
www.houstonchronicle.com...

And that is incorrect. Therefore that makes this post agenda driven or poorly researched. Don't tell me we just atomic bombed Japan and cite a source from WW2....that would be an abundance of ignorance.

Poor sources can ruin an argument as it has done here. They can also clear the air for an agenda driven argument and post with bias, as it has also done here.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

... and thanks for your definition of "nut job partisanship."

Now, who are you referring to with the term?

There were protesters on both sides. From video evidence, it's unclear if there are firearms present at the October event, but there were and have been at others.

That is one of the items OP is directing our attention to. Yes, 1st Amendment. Yes, 2nd Amendment.

But WHAT is being protested? And is it a good idea (even if Constitutional) to bring guns to such an event?

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Are you saying that the photograph in the Houston Chronicle link is faked?

Are you saying that no guns have been brought to these protests outside religious centers?

Would you give us your opinion on the ... what ... productivity of bringing fire arms to a "peaceful" protest?

Does that seem more like political speech to you, or intimidation?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Are you saying that the photograph in the Houston Chronicle link is faked?

Are you saying that no guns have been brought to these protests outside religious centers?

Would you give us your opinion on the ... what ... productivity of bringing fire arms to a "peaceful" protest?

Does that seem more like political speech to you, or intimidation?

Did I say it was faked? The OP said it was from this protest, which is wrong and shows bias and agenda.

I am sure they have been brought. Do you know the reason for this protest? It is because at the original PEACEFUL protest of Mohammed Cartoon drawing, 2 extremists from THIS VERY community center BROUGHT GUNS to kill people. I would say it is WELL within their rights to protest with guns here. It has already been shown that more than one extremist has come from this mosque/community center. Is it irrational to think there are others?

So...how about you give us your opinion on the....what...productivity of bringing firearms to the earlier peaceful protest about Mohammed was? You know...the one where the TWO extremists from this very community center went and were killed in their attempt at a terrorist act......

I would say it seems more like being cautious knowing extremists have come from this place and could be more armed inside.

The "saber rattling" by the protesters sent a clear message to these people. American citizens are not going to make the cultural adjustments demanded by the tenets of their Religion. They were warning in advance that they are not going to give into the violence that usually accompanies Islam infiltration and take over of a country. They stand ready to defend their way of life. I think they were sending the message, "Dont even try". They were setting their boundaries. We are faced with 200,000 potential terrorists coming to our country. Scream as loud as you want, no one cares that they are not wanted or welcome by most US citizens.

This epitomizes how fed up the American people are with having to make room in our world for a culture that is completely opposite of our culture. We see what has happened to every country that has made room for these people. And it never ever benefits the citizens of that country.

I think the protesters, used the only voice they have to send a message that the violence and cultural adjustments, demanded by their religion isnt going to fly here. So, of course they protested in front of a Mosque.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Reallyfolks

... and thanks for your definition of "nut job partisanship."

Now, who are you referring to with the term?

There were protesters on both sides. From video evidence, it's unclear if there are firearms present at the October event, but there were and have been at others.

That is one of the items OP is directing our attention to. Yes, 1st Amendment. Yes, 2nd Amendment.

But WHAT is being protested? And is it a good idea (even if Constitutional) to bring guns to such an event?

If you want to argue about results we will be in agreement as nothing will be accomplished by Tue protest. Is it a good idea? Why not. I would guess that participants feel some jihadist may attack their protest and they have done what they feel they should.

Doesn't bother me, though I am not one to bow to intimidation and I dont fear guns. So is it good? No more or less than any one of a ton of protests we see each year. Heck all things considering this one probably ends with no one hurt, no property damaged and the mosque not being looted. The rest of this is emotional fodder designed to get a response. Evident by posting a 5 month old photo and trying to make it look like what's happening today

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Wait, the Islamic Community Center in Tempe AZ has armed extremists? or are we talking about a different Mosque in AZ?

originally posted by: TheAmazingYeti
Wait, the Islamic Community Center in Tempe AZ has armed extremists?

Had. They are quite dead now.

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Reallyfolks

So your solution to this volatile situation is to have other people create more volatile situations? That can only end well...

Now the act of protesting is volatile???? I seem to remember this happening before and no one was hurt and some of the protestors even took the Muslims up on their offer to come in and pray in their mosque.

Well when you add guns to the equation, yes. Guns ALWAYS make a situation volatile. Because all it takes is for someone to let their emotions get the better of them and then people start get seriously injured or dead.

originally posted by: misskat1

This epitomizes how fed up the American people are with having to make room in our world for a culture that is completely opposite of our culture. We see what has happened to every country that has made room for these people. And it never ever benefits the citizens of that country.

Merica, home of the brave....HAHAHA more like "home of those who fear what they don't know..." Islamophobia.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Reallyfolks

So your solution to this volatile situation is to have other people create more volatile situations? That can only end well...

Now the act of protesting is volatile???? I seem to remember this happening before and no one was hurt and some of the protestors even took the Muslims up on their offer to come in and pray in their mosque.

Well when you add guns to the equation, yes. Guns ALWAYS make a situation volatile. Because all it takes is for someone to let their emotions get the better of them and then people start get seriously injured or dead.

Guns only cause an issue if used. Guns being present only cause an issue for those who fear them.

originally posted by: TheAmazingYeti
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Wait, the Islamic Community Center in Tempe AZ has armed extremists? or are we talking about a different Mosque in AZ?

The Islamic Community Center of Phoenix is the mosque that Elton Simpson and Nadir Soofi attended for a time. They're the men who drove from Arizona to a Dallas suburb to shoot up a Prophet Mohammed cartoon contest there. Both were killed by police early this month.

As Augustus-Centric-Masonicus pointed out.....had...very dead now though.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

You said that the 2nd link was to inaccurate information. I'm wondering what was inaccurate about it.

The picture is pretty clear.

The extremists brought guns to another protest and were killed by police.

If anything, that seems to be a reason NOT TO BRING GUNS TO A PROTEST, doesn't it?

Thank you for finally answering the question: you think it's a fine idea to bring guns to a protest outside a religious event.

My opinion?

You wanted to portray the OP as being merely agenda-driven (as if agendas were rare around here).

You want to justify bringing guns to an event ... even when there are armed police authorities on hand to "keep the peace."

My opinion? I think guns combined with highly-charged emotion results in bad things happening.

I think the point, whatever it was, could have been more poignantly made without weapons ... unless ... as you seem very clear on ...

This was a counter "intimidation" exercise more than a protest.

Yeah, your last comment seems a lot like you're validating thought-crime ... because two folks went off the deep end, all people associated with them must also be violent?

Wow, apply that to a wider field and we'll all be carrying everywhere we go ...

Wait, that's the underlying point, isn't it? Makes sense now.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Got any sauce for the propaganda?

EDIT: found some sauce... Phoenix-area mosques receive threatening letters, Muslim group says

Simpson and Soofi both worshiped intermittently at one of the mosques targeted by the anonymous letter-writer, the Phoenix center alongside Interstate 17. It remains unclear what radicalized the men, but Simpson was believed to have shared social-media messages with known ISIS figures and had been convicted in 2010 in U.S. District Court on charges he lied to FBI agents about plotting to travel to Somalia to wage violent jihad.

Worshipped intermittently...... Damn yo they're breeding fanatics...

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

As Augustus-Centric-Masonicus

pointed out.....had...very dead now though.

I'm not quite dead yet.