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Former George Bush Chief Economist Says 911 Was An Inside Job

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posted on Dec, 5 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409




Guess where that 3000+ degree F. temperature figure came from?


It came from the RJ Lee report as well as others..






Glanz was referring to Jonathan Barnett, a professor of fire protection engineering at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI). Early in 2002, Barnett and two WPI colleagues published an analysis of a section of steel from one of the Twin Towers, along with sections from WTC 7, as an appendix to FEMA’s 2002 World Trade Center Building Performance Study. [14] Their discoveries were also reported in a WPI article entitled “The ‘Deep Mystery’ of Melted Steel,” which said: “[S]teel – which has a melting point of 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit – may weaken and bend, but does not melt during an ordinary office fire. Yet metallurgical studies on WTC steel brought back to WPI reveal that a novel phenomenon – called a eutectic reaction – occurred at the surface, causing intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese.”






Stating that the New York Times called these findings “perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation,” the article added: “A one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness. Its edges – which are curled like a paper scroll – have been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes – some larger than a silver dollar – let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending – but not holes.” [15]






However, RJ Lee had written an earlier report in 2003, entitled “WTC Dust Signature Study,” which contained much more about iron. It said: “Particles of materials that had been modified by exposure to high temperature, such as spherical particles of iron and silicates, are common in WTC Dust … but are not common in ‘normal’ interior office dust.” [21] This 2003 version of the report even pointed out that, whereas iron particles constitute only 0.04 percent of normal building dust, they constituted an enormous amount of the WTC dust: 5.87 percent (meaning that there was almost 1,500 times more iron in the dust than normal). [22] This earlier version also explicitly stated that iron and other metals were “melted during the WTC Event, producing spherical metallic particles.” [23] In addition, whereas the 2004 report did not use the word “vaporize,” this earlier version spoke of temperatures “at which lead would have undergone vaporization.” [24] Accordingly, whereas the 2004 report referred to “high temperatures,” the earlier report indicated that the temperatures were not merely high but extremely high, because for lead to boil and hence vaporize, it must be heated to 1,749°C (3,180°F). [25]






None of the official claims about the non-existence of molten iron or steel in the destroyed WTC buildings withstand scrutiny. The fact that the rubble contained steel or iron that had been melted shows that the buildings were destroyed by something other than fire and airplane impact. Especially dramatic evidence of various types was provided by several facts: that the original RJ Lee report showed that there was almost 1,500 times more iron in the dust than normal; that the rubble contained steel with gaping holes, manifesting a “Swiss cheese appearance” that shocked the three “fire-wise professors” from Worcester Polytechnic Institute; that lead had been vaporized; that molybdenum had been melted; and that the metal pools contained iron that had been heated, as shown by the orange color, above 2,000°C (3,632°F). When all of this physical evidence is combined with the testimony about explosions from many types of professionals, the claim that the Twin Towers were brought down by nothing other than the airplane impacts and resulting fires is simply not credible.


www.consensus911.org...

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posted on Dec, 5 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409




Of course fire can be explained. After all, fire generate temperatures high enough that weakens steel.



I'm not talking about weakening steel, see above post.. fire does not explain that.. or this..



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posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 01:42 AM
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a reply to: wildb



Stating that the New York Times called these findings “perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation,” the article added: “A one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness. Its edges – which are curled like a paper scroll – have been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes – some larger than a silver dollar – let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending – but not holes.”


That is not an indication of melted steel, that is an indicated of steel that was annealed, which occurs around temperatures of 1000 degrees F. I know, because annealing steel was one of my jobs as an airframe technician.

So once again, you have no case. Now, you know the differences between molten steel and annealed steel.


edit on 6-12-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 02:03 AM
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a reply to: wildb



None of the official claims about the non-existence of molten iron or steel in the destroyed WTC buildings withstand scrutiny. The fact that the rubble contained steel or iron that had been melted shows that the buildings were destroyed by something other than fire and airplane impact.


False. There was no evidence of melted steel at ground zero and the RJ Lee Group report found no such evidence, and remember, steel and iron flakes melt a much lower temperatures.





9/11 conspiracy theorist have claimed that the following photos depicted molten steel and evidence of thermite.

9/11 Conspiracy theorist Evidence of Molten Steel

9/11 Conspiracy Theorist Evidence of Thermite

9/11 Conspiracy Theorist Evidence of Molten Steel

9/11 Conspiracy Theorist Evidence of Molten Steel

9/11 Conspiracy Theorist Evidence of Molten Steel

The above conspiracy theorist claims were all debunked with real evidence.



Especially dramatic evidence of various types was provided by several facts: that the original RJ Lee report showed that there was almost 1,500 times more iron in the dust than normal; that the rubble contained steel with gaping holes, manifesting a “Swiss cheese appearance”...


Once again, that shows that the steel was never in a molten state, but that the steel was annealed at a temperature far below the melting point of steel. That particular photo has been used to discredit 9/11 conspiracy theorist because those of us who've worked with such metals knew that at no time, that piece of steel was ever in a molten state at ground zero.


... that shocked the three “fire-wise professors” from Worcester Polytechnic Institute; that lead had been vaporized; that molybdenum had been melted; and that the metal pools contained iron that had been heated, as shown by the orange color, above 2,000°C (3,632°F).


That is incorrect because the orange color of steel indicates a temperature range of 1700-1800 degrees F., not 3,632 degrees F. and 1800 degrees F. was a temperature recorded at ground zero.
edit on 6-12-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 02:14 AM
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a reply to: wildb

Many of those buildings did not have their fire protection dislodge by B-767's and in many cases, their steel structures were encased in concrete, unlike the WTC buildings. The following photo provides a clear understanding of what I am talking about.

Photo: Concrete Structure Prevents Windor Building Collapse from Fire

It is the Windor Buildings after a fire and what you see standing is not a steel structure, what you see standing is its concrete structure. The pile of twisted steel you see lying on the ledge is what's left of its outer steel structure and the only thing that prevented a full collapse from the fire was the concrete structure of the Windsor building.

This is what happens when steel structures are directly exposed to fire.



Kader Toy Factory Fire

At about 4pm on May 10th, 1993, a small fire was discovered on the first floor of part of the E-shaped building. Workers were instructed to keep working as the fire was thought to be minor. The fire alarm in this building did not sound.

The building was reinforced with un-insulated steel girders which quickly weakened and collapsed. This part of the building was dedicated to the storage of finished products and the fire spread quickly. Other parts of the factory were full of raw materials which also burnt very fast... Fire-fighters arrived at the factory at about 4:40pm, to find Building One about to collapse.

The Kader buildings,...collapsed relatively early in the fire because their structural steel supports lacked the fireproofing that would have allowed them to maintain their strength when exposed to high temperatures.

A post-fire review of the debris at the Kader site showed no indication that any of the steel members had been fireproofed.

en.wikipedia.org...


Private jet crashes into hangar at California airport, sparks inferno

Santa Monica Fire Department Captain John Nevandro told NBC Los Angeles that the crash was "unsurvivable.” He added: "The building actually collapsed and wrapped itself around the plane."

www.nbcnews.com...


I might add that fire had weakened the steel structure of that hangar, which caused the collapse.
edit on 6-12-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 02:36 AM
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a reply to: wildb



Glanz was referring to Jonathan Barnett, a professor of fire protection engineering at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI). Early in 2002, Barnett and two WPI colleagues published an analysis of a section of steel from one of the Twin Towers, along with sections from WTC 7, as an appendix to FEMA’s 2002 World Trade Center Building Performance Study. [14] Their discoveries were also reported in a WPI article entitled “The ‘Deep Mystery’ of Melted Steel,” which said: “[S]teel – which has a melting point of 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit – may weaken and bend, but does not melt during an ordinary office fire. Yet metallurgical studies on WTC steel brought back to WPI reveal that a novel phenomenon – called a eutectic reaction – occurred at the surface, causing intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese.”


Now, lets take a look at the rest of the story.



Report chronicles the final moments of WTC tragedy

In the northeast corner of the building's 80th floor, where office furniture had been shoved by the plane, the fire burned so hot that a stream of molten metal began to pour over the side like a flaming waterfall. The apparent source of this waterfall: molten aluminum from the airliner's wings and fuselage, which had also piled up in that corner.

www.taipeitimes.com...


Molten Metal at Ground Zero

Summary: The flow is not steel because the structural steel would fail well below the melting temperature. The flow is likely to be a mixture of aluminum, aluminum oxides, molten glass and coals of whatever trash the aluminum flowed over as it reached the open window. Such a flow would appear orange and cool to a dark color.

Stephen D. Chastain

www.debunking911.com...


Aluminum and the World Trade Center Disaster

NIST: Progress Report on the Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster, Volume 4, Appendix H, Section H.9, page 43: “Starting around 9:52 a.m., a molten material began to pour from the top of window 80-256 on the north face of WTC 2. The material appears intermittently until the tower collapses at 9:58:59 a.m. The observation of piles of debris in this area combined with the melting point behaviors of the primary alloys used in a Boeing 767 suggest that the material is molten aluminum derived from aircraft debris located on floor 81.”

www.911myths.com...


Molten aluminum, not steel, was seen flowing onto the ground at ground zero.


edit on 6-12-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 03:15 AM
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a reply to: wildb

It didn't come from the RJ Lee Group, it came from the report of Steven Jones.

The RJ Lee Group had specifically stated that the source of the high temperature was fire, and 3100 degrees F. is far above the temperature of typical office fires and remember, the RJ Lee Group found no evidence of thermite nor explosives in its dust sample, and in fact, the thermite theory was debunked years ago, so who has been keeping that false story alive?[

Now, let's go here.



RJ Lee Group Report

1.2 WTC Event Dust Constituents

Building materials from which the WTC Towers were constructed include structural steel, asbestos-containing insulation material, other insulating fibrous material (mineral wool and glass fibers), cement and aggregate (concrete), wallboard, ceiling tiles, ducts, wiring, paint, plate glass, and other components.

Building contents of the WTC included computers and other electronic equipment, fluorescent lights, furniture, office supplies, and a myriad of other items. The brittle and friable components of these materials were pulverized during the collapse and the combustible components were partially burned in the ensuing fires.

911research.wtc7.net...


Particles that either were formed as a consequence of high temperature or were modified by exposure to high temperature are important WTC Dust Markers for WTC Dust.

Fires that were a part of the WTC Event produced combustion-modified products that traveled with other components of WTC Dust.



Fires, not thermite, produced the combustion-modified products of other components of WTC dust.

Continue:



Considering the high temperatures reached during the destruction of the WTC, the following three types of combustion products would be expected to be present in WTC Dust. These products are:

• Vesicular carbonaceous particles primarily from plastics
• Iron-rich spheres from iron-bearing building components or contents
• High temperature aluminosilicate from building materials

911research.wtc7.net...


In other words, the RJ Lee Group report states that fire was responsible for what was found in its WTC dust samples.
edit on 6-12-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 06:32 AM
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a reply to: skyeagle409




Many of those buildings did not have their fire protection dislodge by B-767's and in many cases, their steel structures were encased in concrete, unlike the WTC buildings.


Another thing is that most fires ARE FOUGHT .....!!!

FDNY was unable to reach the impact areas where the fires were because the elevators were smashed by the aircraft impacts

Dislodged fire proofing and no fire fighting equal steel being weakened by heat until collapse



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 11:26 AM
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False. There was no evidence of melted steel at ground zero


Seems that there is..




New York Fire Department Captain Philip Ruvolo said: “You’d get down below and you’d see molten steel, molten steel, running down the channel rails, like you’re in a foundry, like lava.” [31]

Joe O’Toole, a Bronx firefighter who worked on the rescue and cleanup efforts, reported that one beam lifted from deep below the surface months later, in February 2002, “was dripping from the molten steel.” [32]

New York firefighters recalled in the documentary film Collateral Damages, “heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel.” [33]

II-B. Testimony from Other Professionals:

Leslie Robertson, a member of the engineering firm that designed the World Trade Center, said 21 days after the attack: “When we were down at the B1 level, one of the firefighters said, ‘I think you’d be interested in this,’ and they pulled up a big block of concrete and there was a, like a little river of steel, flowing.” [34]

Ron Burger, a public health advisor at the National Center for Environmental Health who arrived at Ground Zero September 12, 2001, said: “Feeling the heat, seeing the molten steel, the layers upon layers of ash, like lava, it reminded me of Mt. St. Helen’s and the thousands who fled that disaster.” [35]

In late fall 2001, Dr. Alison Geyh of the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health reported: “Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense. In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel.” [36]

Joe Allbaugh, the Director of FEMA, said in an October 2001 interview on CBS: “It’s just too hot for rescuers to get into [some] areas. So we do not know yet what’s in those areas, other than very hot, molten material.” [37]

Dr. Keith Eaton reported in Structural Engineer: “They showed us many fascinating slides … ranging from molten metal which was still red hot weeks after the event, to 4-inch thick steel plates sheared and bent in the disaster.”

Don Carson, a hazardous materials expert from the National Operating Engineers Union, said six weeks after 9/11: “There are pieces of steel being pulled out from as far as six stories underground that are still cherry red.” [38]

II-C. Testimony from Other Credible Witnesses:

Greg Fuchek, vice president of a company that supplied computer equipment used to identify human remains, reported that “sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel.” [39]

Sarah Atlas, of New Jersey’s Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue, arrived at Ground Zero on September 11 and reported that “fires burned and molten steel flowed in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet.” [40]

Tom Arterburn, writing in Waste Age, reported that the New York Department of Sanitation removed “everything from molten steel beams to human remains.” [41]



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: wildb



New York Fire Department Captain Philip Ruvolo said: “You’d get down below and you’d see molten steel, molten steel, running down the channel rails, like you’re in a foundry, like lava.” [31]


He misidentified molten aluminum, not steel. The only molten metal in vast quantities would have been aluminum and even some lead would have been expected to be found.

A non-expert is not in a position to identify certain metals in a molten state. For an example, how many people would have described the metals in the following photos as molten steel?

Photo 1

Photo 2

Photo 3

Photo 4

Photo 5

Photo 6

Photo 7

Photo 8



Dr. Keith Eaton reported in Structural Engineer: “They showed us many fascinating slides … ranging from molten metal which was still red hot weeks after the event, to 4-inch thick steel plates sheared and bent in the disaster.”

Don Carson, a hazardous materials expert from the National Operating Engineers Union, said six weeks after 9/11: “There are pieces of steel being pulled out from as far as six stories underground that are still cherry red.” [38]


Neither thermite nor explosives leave behind molten metal after a few minutes, much less days and months. Now, for the rest of the story.



Iron Burns

Sometimes a big load of iron in a ship can get hot. The heat can even set other materials on fire. That’s because the iron is rusting, which means it is burning very, very slowly. Iron rusts in a chemical reaction called oxidation. That means the iron reacts with oxygen gas from the air. Oxidation is the chemical reaction that occurs when anything burns in air. Like most oxidations, rusting gives off heat."

www.debunking911.com...


The fact they were pulling up cherry-red steel beams from the WTC rubble has proven that the steel beams were not in a molten state.

edit on 6-12-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 12:57 PM
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He misidentified molten aluminum, not steel. The only molten metal in vast quantities would have been aluminum and even some lead would have been expected to be found.


Who's he, I can list many, stop lying and hand picking, while you ignore the rest, clearly they are talking about steel.


Greg Fuchek, vice president of a company that supplied computer equipment used to identify human remains, reported that “sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel.” [39]


Tom Arterburn, writing in Waste Age, reported that the New York Department of Sanitation removed “everything from molten steel beams to human remains.” [41]



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 12:58 PM
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For an example, how many people would have described the metals in the following photos as molten steel?


No One would...



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: wildb



Who's he, I can list many, stop lying and hand picking, while you ignore the rest, clearly they are talking about steel


You don't have a case for molten steel.



Greg Fuchek, vice president of a company that supplied computer equipment used to identify human remains, reported that “sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel.” [39]


You can't pull anything from a rubble in a molten state. The steel beams were dripping molten aluminum as in one photo shown.



Tom Arterburn, writing in Waste Age, reported that the New York Department of Sanitation removed “everything from molten steel beams to human remains.” [41]


Question: How do you grab and move anything that is in a molten state?
edit on 6-12-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: wildb

Just to let you know, that is exactly what they had done at ground zero. They were misidentifying molten aluminum as molten steel. After all, where did you think tons of aluminum from the aluminum panels on the WTC Towers and tons of aluminum from the aircraft had gone as they were melted by the fires?

This is an indication of what happened to many of the aluminum WTC Tower panels and to the aluminum airframe of the airliners during the fires.

New Jaguar F-Type Burns and Turns Into a Blob of Molten Aluminum
edit on 6-12-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 01:37 PM
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posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 01:51 PM
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Question: How do you grab and move anything that is in a molten state?


You seem to have a reading comprehension problem, please don't ask me to explain it to you again.



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: wildb

It is all very simple to understand. It's either molten or it's not.

The fact of the matter is, there were no pools of molten steel at ground zero because there was nothing at ground zero capable of generating large pools of molten steel. Thermite and explosives do not leave behind molten steel for days or months and the metal in large quantities at ground zero that melts at office fire temperatures was aluminum.

The recorded temperatures at ground zero were far too low to melt steel, while on the other hand, temperatures were far above the melting point of aluminum and lead.

edit on 6-12-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 02:32 PM
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How explosive demolition of steel columns is done in the real world.



edit on 6-12-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 07:45 PM
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The fact of the matter is, there were no pools of molten steel at ground zero because there was nothing at ground zero capable of generating large pools of molten steel. Thermite and explosives do not leave behind molten steel for days or months and the metal in large quantities at ground zero that melts at office fire temperatures was aluminum.


Thank you for your opinion..



posted on Dec, 6 2015 @ 09:58 PM
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a reply to: wildb




Thank you for your opinion..

Aluminum melts quite easily.
Look at the pics from flight 797 at cvg towards the bottom of the page.
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