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originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: Salander
Question # 1 - How many aircraft crashes you been to ??
You say there is no wreckage ...... Searchers recovered some 125,000 lbs of debris from the site - thats over sixty tons !!
Here is picture of dumpster used to contain the debris - They filled up ten of these.......
Shanksville was a magnificent deception, and many folks there tell the story of it. Susan McIlwain is one. She told of being coerced by FBI agents into changing her story. She did not change the story, but did expose them.
Susan McElwain, 51, who lived two miles from the crash site, told a British reporter that she had seen a white aircraft pass directly over her head. 'It came right over me, I reckon just 40 or 50ft above my mini-van," she said. "It was so low I ducked instinctively.
The White Jet
Claim: At least six eyewitnesses say they saw a small white jet flying low over the crash area almost immediately after Flight 93 went down. BlogD.com theorizes that the aircraft was downed by "either a missile fired from an Air Force jet, or via an electronic assault made by a U.S. Customs airplane reported to have been seen near the site minutes after Flight 93 crashed." WorldNetDaily.com weighs in: "Witnesses to this low-flying jet ... told their story to journalists. Shortly thereafter, the FBI began to attack the witnesses with perhaps the most inane disinformation ever—alleging the witnesses actually observed a private jet at 34,000 ft. The FBI says the jet was asked to come down to 5000 ft. and try to find the crash site. This would require about 20 minutes to descend."
FACT: There was such a jet in the vicinity—a Dassault Falcon 20 business jet owned by the VF Corp. of Greensboro, N.C., an apparel company that markets Wrangler jeans and other brands. The VF plane was flying into Johnstown-Cambria airport, 20 miles north of Shanksville. According to David Newell, VF's director of aviation and travel, the FAA's Cleveland Center contacted copilot Yates Gladwell when the Falcon was at an altitude "in the neighborhood of 3000 to 4000 ft."—not 34,000 ft. "They were in a descent already going into Johnstown," Newell adds.
"The FAA asked them to investigate and they did. They got down within 1500 ft. of the ground when they circled. They saw a hole in the ground with smoke coming out of it. They pinpointed the location and then continued on." Reached by PM, Gladwell confirmed this account but, concerned about ongoing harassment by conspiracy theorists, asked not to be quoted directly.
wildb, committed a major blunder by posting a video that depicted wreckage of a B-757 in a field and it was evident that the B-757 did not slam into the ground at over 500 mph unlike United 93
Taking the video out of context is not my blunder..
Britannia Airways Flight 226A
The aircraft touched down hard, bounced, and made a second heavier touchdown causing substantial damage to the nose wheel and its supports. This caused further damage to the aircraft systems, including loss of electrical power, interference with controls and an uncommanded increase in thrust.
The Boeing 757 left the runway at high speed, approximately 1,000 metres (3,300 ft) from the second touchdown point. It then ran 343 metres (1,125 ft) across flat grassland beside the runway, before going diagonally over a substantial earth mound adjacent to the airport boundary, becoming semi-airborne as a result. Beyond the mound it hit a number of medium sized trees and the right engine struck the boundary fence. The aircraft then passed through the fence, re-landed in a field and both main landing gears collapsed.
It finally stopped after a 244 metres (801 ft) slide across the field, 1,900 metres (6,200 ft) from the second touchdown.
The pod-plane idea has been used for over a year to discredit skepticism of the official story.
That the South Tower plane had no windows is one of several ludicrous claims made by the In Plane Site video, and, like the pod-planes claim, is dismissed by the simplest analysis.
This absurd idea that NORAD had no radar coverage over much of the continental US is distilled from the 9/11 Commission Report.
Predictably, the article makes no mention of evidence that war games were being conducted on 9/11/01...
PRE-9/11 PREPARATION AND DEVELOPMENT
Drill Date Scenario
1 NORAD Between 1991 and 2001 Foreign hijacked airliner crashing into famous US building
2 White House, Richard Clarke 1998 Terrorists load Lear Jet with explosive, attack Washington DC
3 NORAD 1999-2001 Hijacked aircraft hit many targets, including WTC, MASCAL
4 Able Danger: DIA, US-SOCOM, LIWA Dec. 1999-2001 Manipulate al Qaeda; data mining (patsy control)
5 Stratus Ivy: DIA Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Operate on patsies “out of the box” (patsy control)
6 Door Hop Galley: DIA (?) Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Still secret (patsy control?)
7 Proactive Pre-emptive Operations Group (P2OG) unknown “Stimulating reactions” of terrorists (patsy control)
8 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ, NYC October 16, 2000 Terrorist crashes Federal Express plane into UN HQ NYC
9 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ NYC October 23, 2000 Terrorist crashes FedEx plane with WMD into UN HQ NYC
10 Pentagon MASCAL exercise Oct. 24-28, 2000 Commercial aircraft hits Pentagon, MASCAL
11 FAA drill December, 2000 Scenario: a chartered flight out of Ohio that had turned its transponder off
12 Positive Force ’01: NORAD plus a dozen agencies; worldwide April 17-26, 2001 COG; attacks on transportation; one scenario: terrorist group hijacking commercial airliner and flying it into Pentagon (Pentagon attack)
13 Unified Vision ’01: US JFCOM; US CENTCOM; US SOCOM: 40 agencies May 7-24, 2001 Invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan (prepared Operation Enduring Freedom)
14 Red Ex (Recognition, Evaluation, and Decision-Making Exercise); NYC OEM; FDNY; NYPD; FEMA; FBI May 11, 2001 Plane crashes and building collapses in New York City (WTC attack, demolition)
15 Amalgam Virgo ’01: US-Canada multi-agency drill; NORAD; SEADS; Coast Guard, Army, Navy June 1-2, 2001 UAV drone launched from rogue freighter in Gulf of Mexico or cruise missile from barge in Atlantic Ocean; Joint Based Expeditionary Connectivity Center (JBECC) mobile radar command center tested. (Pentagon attack)
16 Mall Strike 2001, Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania (near Shanksville); 600 local first responders and emergency managers June 16, 2001 Toxic chemical agent and the simulated release of radiation and radiological contamination; (indoctrination of first responders).
17 FAA Drill: FBI Miami field office, Miami-Dade County Police Department. Summer 2001 Varig airlines Boeing 767 hijacked over Florida
18 Ft. Belvoir, Davison Army Airfield helicopter base MASCAL June 29, 2001 Scenario based on plane hitting Pentagon (indoctrination of first responders).
19 US Department of Transportation Hijacking Exercise August 31, 2001 US Dept. of Transportation Crisis Management Center drilled hijacks; simulated cell phone calls.
20 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Tokyo to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Mum Hykro” to Vancouver and San Francisco
21 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Seoul to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Lin Po” to Seattle
22 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 9, 2001 UK to NYC flight hijacked, blown up
23 NORAD SEADS NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 10, 2001 Ilyushin IL-62 from Cuba hijacked by asylum seekers, lands at Dobbins Air Force Base in Georgia
24 FBI training exercise in Monterey, California for FBI/CIA Anti-Terrorist Task Force Through 9/11 Diverts top FBI, CIA anti-terrorist and special operations agents and heavy equipment away from Boston, NYC, Washington DC
25 NORAD annual readiness drill, Cheyenne Mountain, CO (Vigilant Guardian) 9/11 Full ‘battle staff’ levels to test entire organization
26 Vigilant Guardian: NORAD, NEADS, US-Canada 9/11 Live-fly hijacking and air defense; hijack multiplication, diversion and confusion
27 NORAD/JCS Vigilant Warrior Through 9/11 Reported by Richard Clarke
28 Operation Southern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 174th Fighter Wing, New York Air National Guard, to Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia, to impose no-fly zone over southern Iraq
29 Operation Northern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 6 fighters from Langley AFB sent to Incirlik AFB, Turkey to impose no-fly zone over northern Iraq
30 Operation Northern Vigilance Through 9/11 Diverts fighters, 350 personnel to Alaska and northern Canada to counter a Russian bomber drill
31 Operation Northern Guardian, Keflavik AFB, Iceland Through 9/11 Diverts fighters from Langley Air Force Base (Virginia) deployed to Keflavik AFB, Iceland to counter a Russian bomber drill
32 Red Flag, Nellis AFB, Nevada: 100 pilots 9/11 Diverts most F-15s of 71st Fighter Squadron, Langley AFB, VA; DC ANG’s 121st Fighter Squadron of Andrews Air Force Base also depleted.
33 Andrews AFB local drill 9/11 Diverts 3 F-16s to North Carolina
34 National Reconnaissance Office drill, Chantilly, Virginia 9/11 Simulated plane crash into high-rise government building; satellite imaging (WTC attack)
35 Tripod II, New York City 9/11 Response to biochemical attack; run from backup command center at Pier 92, H
“The hole was not made by an engine or the nose of Flight 77 pushing through the building’s interior - or a missile - but by the crashing jet’s landing gear, which was ejected beyond the bulk of the wreckage. […] As one of the heaviest and most dense parts of the plane, the landing gear flew farther than any other item in the wreckage and was responsible for puncturing the wall in Ring C.”
Popular Mechanics' "Fact" tries to arouse horror in the reader at the thought of people in the lobbies being burned by flaming jet fuel, but the only "factual" claim here is that (a) the elevator shafts were damaged and (b) burning jet fuel "travelled" down them and caused damage to the lobbies and killed people. We already know that people died, close to 3000 of them, in an act of mass murder, with those who perpetrated this remaining unidentified (the perps were certainly not the 19 Arabs whom the FBI tried to pin the blame on).
The RJ Lee report.
Observed, various metals mostly iron and lead were melted during the wtc event, producing spherical metallic particles due to surface tension.. Particles of materials that had been modified by exposure to high temperatures.
Debunked: Iron Microspheres in 9/11 WTC Dust as Evidence for Thermite
The iron microspheres (as evidence for thermite) were debunked years ago, but they keep coming up. The bottom line is:
* Iron Microspheres form from condensed vaporized iron or from molten iron
* You can melt iron by igniting it with a Bic lighter, if the pieces of iron are thin enough.
* There are several other sources of iron microspheres
* Iron microspheres were expected in the WTC dust
Iron does not melt until 2800* F which cannot be reached by diffused hydrocarbon fires. Still even higher temperatures were indicated by another discovery documented in RJ Lee's report.
The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicates the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse which caused metallic lead to volatilize , oxidize, and finally condense on the surface of the mineral wool.
The RJ Group
The RJ Lee Group report considers samples taken several months after the collapses, and it is certain that torch-cutting of steel beams as part of the cleanup process contributed some, if not all, of the spherules seen in these samples.
No Thermite Found
The R.J. Lee Company did a 2003 study on the dust and didn't find thermitic material. Other sampling of the pulverized dust by United States Geological Survey and RJ Lee did not report any evidence of thermite or explosives. It has been theorized the "thermite material" found was primer paint.
No evidence has ever been found of explosive charges and there are no recordings of a series of very loud explosions that would have been expected with controlled demolition. Furthermore, there is an alternative explanation for the "thermitic material" the sceptical scientists found in the dust - it is just a type of primer paint. It's calculated 1,200,000 tonnes of building materials were pulverised at the World Trade Center and most minerals are present in the dust (not necessarily in a large quantity).
More extensive sampling of the dust has not found any evidence of thermite or explosives, says a report from the US Geological Survey and another from RJ Lee.
That message debunks the claim of 9/11 conspiracy theorist that the FBI did not blame Osama bin Laden
In other words, the report of the RJ Lee Group found no evidence of explosives or thermite at WTC ground zero.
Now, for the rest of the story about the RJ Lee Group.
From the Website of the FBI
Intelligence agencies quickly learned that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by bin Laden’s terrorist organization, and in October 2001, his name was added to the U.S. Department of State’s Most Wanted Terrorists List.