What if you are possessed, and possessing?

I sometimes have hypotheses that arise in mind, at first vague notions, then later they arise again, a bit more developed, with more clarity and detail. They become interesting to contemplate.

What if-

There is a history to humanity, a beginning and an end. A point at which we blow up our world, or something of that sort.
Now, imagine, we could have the opportunity to pick certain times of that history to experience, and go back there to see what it was REALLY like!

If you could say, hey, I'd like to visit ancient Egypt, and see how it was really! But imagine, also, how that would pose problems- you'd look different, not speak the language, know the local customs... you'd probably be singled out and killed or imprisoned before you had much of a chance to experience that place and time.

The best way to overcome that problem would be to get there with a body that already has the necessary information encoded in it. You'd have the appropriate language emerge from the mouth, the appropriate behaviors act out automatically... you might even have access to the thoughts of a local, seeing what their beliefs and values are- how they perceive the world and others around them.

You could just be the "eyes" observing the experience, carried around safely in a vehicle that is programmed to survive effectively.
Wouldn't that be cool?

Now, imagine, you die (here and now) and find out you are a spark of consciousness which is not bound to time and space, so there is no linear time frame for you. You can look upon the history of earth and man as a whole- like a game board. You can pick any space and time to delve into and experience, in a way which is not imaginary and controllable for you (because that, you can do in this other state- you can imagine whatever you want, but it will all be within your control and subject to your choices of experiences). The real excitement of this place is NOT knowing what will happen, having the movements and acts of others be hidden from you and not planned by you.

Like being in a videogame- what fun is it if you know all the plan and there is no surprises or challenges to face?

So you go there- jump into any time and place you want to experience. You can choose a vehicle- see what it was like to be a slave or a king, a trader, a baker, an explorer! Of course, you'll only be the eyes inside, and you might find it very difficult, if not impossible, to overide the automatic system. You might find out some "shortcuts" or "cheats" like drugs, or alcohol, which could help you get past that firewall. But they might have some damaging effects to the system- like make it give up it's mission completely and become inactive, no longer taking care of self preservation for you.

You might find ways to slowly encourage it to accept your input and guidance from time to time, without totally crashing, able to take up it's mission when that is necessary.

Or you might just find it interesting to let the experience enfold as it will and observe. Your experience of pain or discomfort is not "bad" you are out of time and space, so you can step out of it until it is over, and connect again when (where) the experience is pleasurable.

Perhaps even, there are some characters in the drama of human that stood out as having especially rare and extraordinary lives, and many entities can step in and observe/experience that entity at the same time. That might result in many different entities struggling to influence and guide (which would result in what? Some mental conflicts and apparent mental illness? Or extreme creativity? Or both?)

What if this is happening? Right now, before, later...

Ok. What did you take an hour ago?
Just kidding.
Very interesting "what if's"
I too think about the "Ancient Egypt" scenario and come to the same roadblocks you mentioned.

Usually my head starts hurting when I get to deep and just imagine that I would be invisible. A fly on the wall so to speak.

But then I will think It would be really neat to be able to have some kind of universal translator like on Star Trek TNG embedded in your head.
But I don't think any history book could prepare you for the subtleties of the local culture of that time period.

originally posted by: Spader
Ok. What did you take an hour ago?

Just coffee, my friend, and a sit in the sun on a beautiful morning!

But then I will think It would be really neat to be able to have some kind of universal translator like on Star Trek TNG embedded in your head.
But I don't think any history book could prepare you for the subtleties of the local culture of that time period.

Exactly! We don't even know if our history books are correct in the conclusions they've drawn! They might be terribly "off".
I was thinking about that last night as I watched the recent made for tv drama "Tut". I thought of all the slightly different ways ancient Egypt has been portrayed through the years- Hollywood interprets styles colored by recent fashion and ideas about beauty. Details are still being worked out, for even historical characters- who was the mother of Tutankamon is still under debate and going through trends in theory.

To know the truth, you'd have to be in a vehicle which was made in that time, with a highly elaborate navigational and preservational system that was formed entirely in that time, by that specific environment.

originally posted by: Bluesma

You could just be the "eyes" observing the experience, carried around safely in a vehicle that is programmed to survive effectively.

What if this is happening?

Can anyone prove it isn't??

a reply to: Bluesma

I'm not gonna say much about it, but once I felt like I was merging consciousness with someone else, and another time I watched my ego split into every characteristic that makes me up and each personified all at the same time, so I had no singular I. Hey, I know the reason why those things happened but it's still fun to ask what if.. Star and flag

originally posted by: Bluesma


So you go there- jump into any time and place you want to experience. You can choose a vehicle- see what it was like to be a slave or a king, a trader, a baker, an explorer! Of course, you'll only be the eyes inside, and you might find it very difficult, if not impossible, to overide the automatic system. You might find out some "shortcuts" or "cheats" like drugs, or alcohol, which could help you get past that firewall. But they might have some damaging effects to the system- like make it give up it's mission completely and become inactive, no longer taking care of self preservation for you.

You are only the eyes. There would be no difficulty if you knew you were ONLY the seeing aspect. Difficultly would only arise if you identified with the system - then there would be conflict. The system is automatic and if there was an idea (a strong belief) that you could change the system there would be distress.
If you knew you were just seeing then what would the problem be? You are just experiencing the life of an apparent someone - as is.

a reply to: Bluesma

This is why I like your posts so much - creative speculation. Your mind seems to walk similar forest paths to mine and we keep bumping into each other off the beaten tracks

I had an idea that's close to yours and that's that our UFO age was triggered by the arrival of post-flesh intelligences from long-gone worlds. Imagine our own post-singularity consciousnesses as information fields with a motive force? Now imagine an intelligence that's been travelling for thousands of years without interacting with biological lives. Might such a thing lose that spark of narrative creativity? Would such a thing be able to plug itself into a living being's corporeal brain and vicariously re-enjoy the highs and lows of hormones and moods? What of the physical senses? Anger, sex and the emotions that come through playing a role in society.

Now, imagine, you die (here and now) and find out you are a spark of consciousness which is not bound to time and space, so there is no linear time frame for you. You can look upon the history of earth and man as a whole- like a game board.

I wonder if this would lead to jaded, cynical beings in the future or to beings that degrade into cruelty and the pursuit of novelty? There's an author called CJ Cherryh who covers some of these ideas in a book of her short stories called 'Sunfall.' It's set in the time before the Sun dies and people steal the dreams of others in search of novelty. In one story, reincarnation has rendered the aristocracy listless and bored. In another, like yours, it explores the idea that Churchill and Hitler were two souls who've fought each other in different bodies throughout time.

a reply to: Kandinsky
The mind loves to imagine other things in time and space.
The OP is about going somewhere else to experience what it is like. Maybe the game is to go somewhere and experience it. But man is so crazy he is where he is and then does not experience where he is. He sits here and imagines somewhere else that he cannot experience.
Is it possible for man to experience what there is rather than experiencing stories and hopes about some other experience that isn't?

a reply to: Kandinsky

A motive force is behind all life and begs the question. What came first, the motive force or physical life ?

Bluesma, if you think about it, the Bangles singlehandedly poisened the minds of millions of people's perception of how ancient Egyptians looked like and walked. HA!

Unless the women all looked like Susanna Hoffs. I could live with that.
(I would put a pic in if I could figure my nieces android out)

a reply to: chewi

I was using 'motive force' as a hand-waving way to avoid the obvious problem of how a disembodied intelligence would propel itself. A cheat to allow the sheer speculation of the ideas : )

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Is it possible for man to experience what there is rather than experiencing stories and hopes about some other experience that isn't?

They can be one and the same thing depending on the scale of one's imagination and the talents of the author.

a reply to: Bluesma

A very thought-provoking thread with some fascinating replies. Thanks for sharing.

It would seem that our "chosen" experience was not revealed in full, otherwise I would never have signed up to this gig...

a reply to: Bluesma

Now, imagine, we could have the opportunity to pick certain times of that history to experience, and go back there to see what it was REALLY like!

Most people would be bored out of their mind. Because if you go back a couple centuries, theres no conveyances, you have to walk to get anywhere. Theres no light after dark, no wall switches or flashlights, theres no running tap water, floors are dirt, roofs leak, food is simple, no light box (TV) or internet, nothing to read, just rags, dust and toil. They accepted it because its all they knew.

We'd go nuts. Before you wax all nostalgic, try an experiment; go live homeless for even one night with just the clothes on your back. Sleep outdoors, wonder about your safety, critters, and where you're going to get something to eat or drink the next day.

I think everyone would like to visit, if they knew they could throw a switch and return if something didn't go well.

a reply to: Kandinsky

G'Mornin, thanks for the nod.

Now imagine an intelligence that's been travelling for thousands of years without interacting with biological lives. Might such a thing lose that spark of narrative creativity? Would such a thing be able to plug itself into a living being's corporeal brain and vicariously re-enjoy the highs and lows of hormones and moods? What of the physical senses? Anger, sex and the emotions that come through playing a role in society.

In The Fifth Element, when Lilu steps onto that ledge and sees the city of the future for the first time?
@1:20 into here…

Imagine for a moment people from our historic past coming to our now and seeing a modern city, strapping into the passenger seat and being driven onto a modern freeway? As the car accelerated to unbelievable speed of 65 mph and merged with traffic, they'd freak.

Everybody is possessed by his own soul, or in other words consciousness and awareness.
Our ability to decode sensations with logic, and create awareness from memory.

Memory is the real ''miracle''
Memory, senses and awareness create ego and consciousness.

Nature triggers the creation of consciousness and consciousnesses tries to understand Nature,

But what if Nature itself was somehow conscious in it's own weird way? what if the universe was a giant organism among others, in a bigger macro-universe and so on.

A point at which we blow up our world, or something of that sort.

How do you know we havent already ? And that spun off another universe to which we were shifted into through dimensional space ?
what if we are living in what we would have considered in the other universe to have been our history ?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

You are only the eyes. There would be no difficulty if you knew you were ONLY the seeing aspect. Difficultly would only arise if you identified with the system - then there would be conflict. The system is automatic and if there was an idea (a strong belief) that you could change the system there would be distress.
If you knew you were just seeing then what would the problem be? You are just experiencing the life of an apparent someone - as is.

Curiosity.... desire to explore experience in varied ways. To be watching through the eyes of a vehicle that is stuck in a pattern of repetative behavior, going in circles, you might joyfully want to poke it to break the cycle, experience something else.
Restriction of energy could be happening in the system, if there is a bug in the program - like trying to go forward towards something, and having beliefs which act contrary and cause repulsion, causing stagnation and lack of movement.
Repeated calls from the system to have input and inspiration, cries of suffering from the body, and it's inability to see how it can change that.... there are perhaps moments you would have some compassion for the body program and it's senses, and participate to help it. Not because it is important to you that it change, but because the body wants change and asks for help.

Probably a lot of reasons you might want to be active and participate in the life you are experiencing.

originally posted by: intrptr

Most people would be bored out of their mind. Because if you go back a couple centuries, theres no conveyances, you have to walk to get anywhere. Theres no light after dark, no wall switches or flashlights, theres no running tap water, floors are dirt, roofs leak, food is simple, no light box (TV) or internet, nothing to read, just rags, dust and toil. They accepted it because its all they knew.

We'd go nuts. Before you wax all nostalgic, try an experiment; go live homeless for even one night with just the clothes on your back. Sleep outdoors, wonder about your safety, critters, and where you're going to get something to eat or drink the next day.

I think everyone would like to visit, if they knew they could throw a switch and return if something didn't go well.

That doesn't work for me. I have always loved to go hiking and camping, even alone, and gotten excited when things go wrong and I have to wing it. Necessity awakens an incredible creativity! Finding solutions isn't exciting for you?
The wonderful physical exhaustion of hard physical work and exercise? The intensity of sensation and consciousness of the body when things aren't so comfortable!

The way human relations (and exchange with everything in the outer world) suddenly takes on incredible importance and meaning when it is faced with survival instincts!

Tell me you wouldn't want to experience the physical and emotional power of being a Viking? It would be cold, uncomfortable, difficult.... and yet, feeling how the body can endure such conditions, and channel such fierce aggressive energy would be awesome!

a reply to: Kandinsky

Yes! Awesome ideas! Like in the movie "A.I.", in which life forms become artificial- we worry about android or computers taking over humanity, but what if it is just another sort of vehicle for us to experience? Ones that are better equipped for space travel than organic ones.

I love when others throw their sparks into my thought explorations... they'll probably grow in me for days.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

You are only the eyes. There would be no difficulty if you knew you were ONLY the seeing aspect. Difficultly would only arise if you identified with the system - then there would be conflict. The system is automatic and if there was an idea (a strong belief) that you could change the system there would be distress.
If you knew you were just seeing then what would the problem be? You are just experiencing the life of an apparent someone - as is.

This sort of response makes me think some are ready for non-organic vehicles. No compassion for the suffering of physical senses.
If you are the eyes behind a body that is caught in an abusive relationship, being beaten and hurt each day, and praying to have that cycle change, you feel nothing. No patience, no desire to give of your infinite vision to aid the body that suffers it's faulty programming... no call to inspire. Maybe you need to possess an android for a while?

But then, the draw to aid is not absent- you try to aid others with your posts "Just detach and ignore! That is the ticket!" Yeah it's a potential choice, but not the only one.