Is it possible to meditate out of hatred?

I know a lot of you guys said you can only meditate out of love and that meditation can develop empathy and allow us to achieve enlightenment. Well I would like to show the Dark Side of Meditation.

Meditation makes you calmer and clearer and encourages empathy and kindness … right? Not if you are Anders Behring Breivik who has told psychiatrists that he used meditation to "numb the full spectrum of human emotion – happiness to sorrow, despair, hopelessness, and fear". He still practises it behind bars to deaden the impact of his actions.

Breivik uses meditation as a form of mind control – a way to focus the mind and exclude responses that get in his way. You could argue that he is meditating wrongly, but I think his testimony shows that the effect of any practice, meditation included, depends on the ends to which it is recruited. Breivik's aims were determined by his racist beliefs and meditation didn't challenge them.

We've been here before. Breivik likened himself to a Japanese banzai warrior seeking satori – Japanese Zen enlightenment – to harden his heart. Samurai, inspired by Zen teachings, often used meditation to develop their skills and overcome fear of death. Zen's long association with the samurai bushido ethos culminated, after the Meiji restoration of 1868, in the support of virtually the whole Zen establishment for the military expansion that culminated in the second world war. Japanese Buddhists rejoiced that the Pearl Harbor attacks had occurred on 8 December, the day when they mark the Buddha's Enlightenment and leaders insisted that fighting was a patriotic and a Buddhist duty.

Established religions commonly support a nation's war effort, but the Zen enthusiasm for Japanese militarism strayed so far from the Buddha's nonviolent teachings that it raises more fundamental questions. After the war a group of Japanese Zen scholar-priests (the Critical Buddhism school) investigated how their branch of a seemingly pacifist tradition had ended up affirming war. They concluded that Zen's reinterpretations of early Buddhism had obscured its fundamental tenets.

www.theguardian.com...

Some of you folks may claim that he meditate the wrong way but as a believer of the Jedi Philosophy anything can be used for both ethical and non ethical reasons. For example since meditation is like a tool it can be used for ethical or non ethical reasons.

In a related note, it reminds me of this:

Sorry double post

Use the Dark Side and peace you will find....
All things are possible.

a reply to: DogMeat

Then why do some people say that only those who are into love and spiritual enlightenment can meditate?

sorry double post

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Yes. There is a great book by a zen priest called Zen at War about this very topic, about how the Japanese utilized Zen Buddhism to prepare the soldiers for face to face combat and kamikaze.

Apparently Himmler carried around with him a copy of the Bhagavad Gita, so that he may include its rhetoric in his speeches to his SS soldiers, for the exact same purpose.

One must be very spiritual in order to become a monster.

Meditation is only a tool, and a practice. It can be used for any purpose, really. It's analogous to self-hypnosis in some ways. There are also many different approaches to meditation, and the specific exercises involved in the practice of meditation depend upon then school of thought or tradition in which you were taught to meditate.

Then there are also those who simply develop their own form of meditation.

Either way, generally speaking, meditation involves relaxation, focus, and either a total clearing of the mind or a singular focus on one object, visualization, concept, activity (such as breathing,) etc. in order to avoid distraction or disruption of the meditative state.

Because meditation can be used by some to quell anxiety (I use it for this purpose, among others,) it is certainly feasible for someone to utilize meditation in the suppression of other emotions. Indeed, certain meditative traditions hold as their chief goal the liberation from all emotion and ego. So it's certainly possible to meditate with the goal of suppressing empathy.

Meditation would only enhance empathy if that were the goal of meditation, or perhaps passively through the cultivation of focus and awareness of your own mind and emotions in the general sense. But there is absolutely no requirement or rule that limits the applicability of meditation to solely altruistic aims, or self-enrichment.

In short, someone can definitely use meditation as he describes. Meditation was sometimes (and still is) used as a prelude to combat, both single combat and in warfare.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: DogMeat

Then why do some people say that only those who are into love and spiritual enlightenment can meditate?

I would speculate that it conflicts with their worldview and spiritual beliefs. Or that they wish to "own" the semantic definition of "meditation" and the thought of someone misusing it to their thinking is anathema. Nevertheless, it can be used in this way.

Peace.

Of course join the dark side of the force feeeeel its power.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That's the real life Sith Philosophy in essence. In Star Wars, the Sith is all about power and militarism which is like Imperial Japan.

In my experience love meditation (or hate meditation, or fear meditation or...whatever meditation) is counterproductive. If you can properly clear your mind, a sensation likening to "love" is almost a side effect; losing your ingrained habits of opinion and emotional reaction means that you face the world with less preconception, a mindset which lends itself to love more easily than aggression or hatred, which at their heart are emotional responses to situations deemed by the ego to be threatening.

That's not to say that you're no longer capable of these emotions or to act on them...but the situations surrounding them are clearer and less likely to provoke emotional turmoil.

What is being described in the OP is indeed self hypnosis, only instead of trying to undo the habits of the mind, it is creating and reinforcing existing emotional patterns towards what I suspect will be painful and harmful (to everybody involved) long term results.

I don't meditate out of love nor hate, meditation in my experience is not about either of those things, it's about self-discovery. Clearing your mind of any thoughts is the key to entering a meditative state, that includes thoughts of love and hate.

What I find while meditating is a completely different story though. I personally find peace, serenity, and love in my meditative state. They do not come from me though, they come from the universal mind that I am a part of.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

I believed this falls under self hypnosis more than meditation. And yes it can be used to help someone defeat their own morality.

DPost

Indeed you can meditate and call down doom on your enemies.

We project according to our perceptions of reality.

If we perciece everything to be bad reality take a turn for the worse, same with good.

So you could essentially shoot yourself with this kind of practice, kind of welcoming fights and then allowing chain reactions to continue the darkness, it can spread like a forest fire fueled by the wind of your own skewed perception.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Of course join the dark side of the force feeeeel its power.

There is that; but another is this: use 'cunning' and would naturally have put together a better argument in which to outsmart. Did you mean Meditate instead of mediate? Changes everything.

Yea, it definitely possible, since it can help one develop their self control to certain degree, where the practice teaches one how to channel their energy or so they would believe.

However, such meditation have their draw back, where it can be very draining and de-motivational due to how explosive it can feel. Also the intentions behind such vibes can be very distracting and dragging. It like jealousy vs envy in definition, one doesn't allow themselves to be blinded by hate, become obessive.

Not only that, channeling to much rage or being angry all the time not very good for the heart.

But there are positives to it, it can give one a hardened temperament allowing more self control, and the feeling of "Righteous Angers" one for the holy books and maybe an amazing concoction for the Gods, but that another story in it self I guess.

originally posted by: Specimen
Yea, it definitely possible, since it can help one develop their self control to certain degree, where the practice teaches one how to channel their energy or so they would believe.

However, such meditation have their draw back, where it can be very draining and de-motivational due to how explosive it can feel. Also the intentions behind such vibes can be very distracting and dragging. It like jealousy vs envy in definition, one doesn't allow themselves to be blinded by hate, become obessive.

I am confused; as meditation (through training/practice/process) allows one to be quiet enough to listen to oneself; some say ones higher being at times interpreted as God (same thing).

Specimen: Not only that, channeling to much rage or being angry all the time not very good for the heart.

But there are positives to it, it can give one a hardened temperament allowing more self control, and the feeling of "Righteous Angers" one for the holy books and maybe an amazing concoction for the Gods, but that another story in it self I guess.

I have never heard of 'channeling' or meditating with rage as a good thing. If toward a specific target ULTRA BAD KARMIC reflection mirrored back upon yourself doubled or tripled that could cause a major banana peel slip in the future. I see no positives to taking that existential risk that may harm your future intent/endeavors. Your creativity will be removed.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

It a little different then you'd think, although it can be a great release of sorts, but since true meditation is meant to still the mind and allow it interpret itself like you said. The practice of controlling one anger should be old age stuff though, especially when it come to the self discipline jumbo that comes with practices of religions or spiritualities.

Hell, when someone usually angry or enraged, their nostril flare up, are more open, and breathing control a form of that attempt of trying to hone it. Almost like stopping and stomping while counting to ten, and cooling, one ends up feeling exhausted some what. It really can be a waste of spirit, but at times its igniting.

I think it really depends on how cautious one is with their intentions, since there a difference of having a temper, while being the lowly definition of an animal that has no control.

Hates a very strong word with a lot of intention behind it.

originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: vethumanbeing

It a little different then you'd think, although it can be a great release of sorts, but since true meditation is meant to still the mind and allow it interpret itself like you said. The practice of controlling one anger should be old age stuff though, especially when it come to the self discipline jumbo that comes with practices of religions or spiritualities.

I have only my own personal experience to TAP as evidence; that which holds no organized belief system whatsoever.

Specimen: Hell, when someone usually angry or enraged, their nostril flare up, are more open, and breathing control a form of that attempt of trying to hone it. Almost like stopping and stomping while counting to ten, and cooling, one ends up feeling exhausted some what. It really can be a waste of spirit, but at times its igniting.

That is a Hatha Yoga technique. Breathing-to cause a purposeful change within the body practicing it (healing technique).

Specimen: I think it really depends on how cautious one is with their intentions, since there a difference of having a temper, while being the lowly definition of an animal that has no control.
Hates a very strong word with a lot of intention behind it.

Perhaps more this: don't challenge a universe you are not completely aware of *within that understanding*; your destiny (final intent of that you chose) lies within a fait accompli. Does God win, or you or both simultaneously recombine after a brief debate no one can come to an agreement upon?

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Meditation is just a tool. It can help you with detachment or any other personal stuff. This is in general applied to desires or egoistical thoughts or any other bad - negative tendencies we need to learn to filter in case of spirituality.

And I really don't see that article as something mind blowing, because how you use a tool is up to you!
You can hit a nail or a head with a hammer?!... It just means it is a convenient tool for a lot of stuff.
If you wan't to clear your conscience from evil deeds, why not? If you want to peruse enlightenment, that is great also!

It just tells me that meditation is very effective dealing with any kind of personal issues I posses and it works wonders. It is another sign that it is a valid method and not just sitting with closed eyes as many would think. But a tool with which we can help ourself for good or evil.

This does not mean that it should be avoided, it means that it is a great tool with which we can improve our happiness and well-being, but first need to have desire to learn how to use it in a way which is beneficial to us and all other beings.