Interesting...vaccines (maybe not what you think).

First off, let me state that I am not an anti-vaxxer (I'm not sure I have a position at the moment), and this particular thread isn't really about vaccinations themselves, but about some of the discussion surrounding them. In searching ATS I see there are a number of threads debating the potential harms and/or merits which various vaccines are alleged to cause / cure. In nearly all of these threads there seems to be a hot and vigorous debate on the subject. What prompted me to do this search here was something I noticed elsewhere.

Oddly enough I happened to be looking at Wikipedia (I know, I know...unreliable, etc), but it didn't have anything to do with this subject. I clicked on a google link (to Wikipedia) while looking up the American celebrity Jenny McCarthy. All I was really trying to find out at the time was if she had one kid or two (turns out it's one, but this is beside the point). The thing which struck me was, fully half of the wiki page dedicated to her was cluttered up with vaccination discussion related edits (and very poor edits at that). Not really knowing anything about her I decided to read some of this more carefully. Seems she has allegedly been outspoken in the past about potential harm (autism) being caused by certain vaccines.

Many times when I see jumbled edits on a Wikipedia page I will click on the "talk" tab to see what sort of edit war is going on. So I did this on her page and, WOW, the whole first archive is just filled with some heavy hitters (on Wikipedia) going back and forth about vaccines. Many of the edits were 'anonymous', but the end result is almost her entire page has devolved into a vaccines related crusade (mostly critical from a pro-vaccine standpoint). This lead me to do some poking around here on ATS.

A quick search here on ATS using "vaccines" as a search term results in pages and pages of threads. Looking further at some of the threads themselves I saw an equally spirited debate both pro and con. Here's what I found strange though...

Much the same as the wiki edits, many (not all) of the pro-vaccine posters on these vaccine related threads seem to have only posted on these threads and then effectively vanished. It gives the appearance they only signed up to weigh in on this one subject. Then I started comparing vaccine related threads here. Many of these low post count, single subject, posters weighed in across multiple vaccine related threads, but in looking at their profiles they hadn't really participated in any other topics of discussion.

Aside from hearing the usual rumor mongering background noise about vaccines in various circles, I guess I was never really aware this was as big of a topic as it is. Equally I was surprised at, what appears to me anyway, the 'special interest' nature of many of the posts. It's almost as if this discussion brings the medical / pharma industry shills out of the woodwork.

Did I just happen onto some coincidental threads, or is this common for this subject?

If I didn't know better (heh, heh) I'd think there was some sort of a psyops / lobby component to this discussion.

Its common to several subjects.
Some of them are human, some of them are web bots, the latter usually being those that post only in those subjects.

Yes you will find a trend looking at who posts the most often on certain subjects. Like you pointed out, some are one thread posters.

They are found very often scrutinizing every word and dissecting your posts phrase by phrase like a robot attacking the source or the messenger or with dissmissive weak comments. Sometimes borderline ridiculous questions are asked or wild claims to detract us from the discussion. Attracting our attention on unimportant angles or posing flase inquiries, hence bait detractory comments to confuse and divide. Kind of like what most politicians use during their campaigns.

It is the age of information and there is a war. Money will buy many whores ready to serve any cause.

Topics where I noticed this the most are: 911, vaccines or medical industry, monsanto, GMO.

This is where the internet has a weakness anyone anonymously can post anything good or bad and vanish. This can be repeated over and over.

If one is a bit savvy can post under many names and even support his own claims giving the illusion of the masses agreeing with him.

I know i hope i am wrong too about all of this.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I used to see that a lot on 9/11 threads, too. Particular posters seemed to be on ATS for the sole purpose of name calling and insulting anyone who questioned the official story.

I've noticed that when it comes to vaccination threads, the pro-vaccine ATS regulars chime in to extol the benefits of vaccines, while the "special interest" posters seem to be the ones advocating forcing or legally coercing people into taking vaccines.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Very interesting... especially as one who has authored a few of those vaccine threads and personally witnessed/experienced this pattern. Interesting indeed. I have no problem with different opinions, and I enjoy a great discussion, but some people just seem to want to disrupt and badger and bully. Right or wrong, that tells me all I need to know. At that point, I'm done trying to discuss... our words will just have to stand on their own merits. Such is the nature of the beast.

Speaking for myself, for one who was completely neutral on the subject coming in, this trend makes me wonder if there really is something more sinister going on related to the vaccine discussion. The way some of these posters suddenly showed up, guns a blazing, like they were pre-programmed for just this fight is very strange...like they consciously went in search of the discussion even.

As a general rule, I've found wherever there are clear agenda driven shills like this on a subject there is also generally lots of money at stake.

I guess I need to go research the flow of money associated with this topic. I'm betting there's going to be all sorts of surprises there!

Interesting angle on this and a good one at that. Most threads on this issue consist of opinionated people with no real education on the subject arguing back and forth. These exchanges bury the real content and take any credibility away from those who research properly.
Your research on this is well thought out and shows what I have found on many subjects to be true. There is 100% an effort to control the narrative on the Internet. This is achieved through mockery, dead end comments and quantity over quality comments to bury important info in rubish.

On vaccines I'm honestly lost. I have children who are young. One has had her vacine up to a few years ago. Now I refuse her flu vaccine. My youngest who is 3 is due a booster and I don't want him to get it. I just don't feel the fear mongering don't outweigh the odds of getting one of the illnesses. I understand if the disease did strike I would be to blame. But I just don't trust vaccines due to one moment. I asked the nurse what was in it. She didn't have a clue. That was enough for me.

This is similar to how I judge ideas now days: by the resistance that idea generates.

I just posted a rant thread about English being the language of lies, and I think your OP could have been written about a plethora of topics, but vaccines is one of the more heated ones.

I come to the vaccine debate from a different angle--I am the child of an "anti-vacc" medical professional. I have never been vaccinated, as an adult I even inquired with my GP about it and was told not to bother "its not important" she said.

I see a lot of hateful posts, memes and just plain hyperbole about vaccines--ALL from a pro-vacc agenda. I talk to these people, ask them questions. Have I ever gotten you sick?. Am I putting you at risk?. Sometimes people will say I am putting them or their children at risk--but when I asked my doctor about it: "na, its not that important, you are not going to be a risk to peoples children".

So where does this all come from?. Not the actual medical community--if the medical community were as gun-ho about vaccines as some of the public, then 1. My mother, the Doctor, might have vaccinated me as a child in the 70-80's. 2. My Doctor would have insisted I become vaccinated as an adult in the last couple of years.

No, its just liars being liars and idiots that listen to them.

a reply to: bitsforbytes

It is the age of information and there is a war. Money will buy many whores ready to serve any cause.

Best way to protect self from such things is to learn on the subject. Do some reading on Public Relations (PR) and especially Astroturfing.

a reply to: Boadicea

Could not agree more and I have witnessed it myself!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

S&Fs!

a reply to: ItVibrates

It's interesting you say that. I just took my 2 year old in for her yearly exam and her pediatrician offered the Hep A vax -- but he said he didn't necessarily recommend it. It was up to us.

I passed on it. And I appreciated his honesty.

My oldest child is 24 and I have been with this pediatric practice since she was five. I have never had a reason to doubt their competence.

Are you telling me that social media as been infected by s...by shhhh...s s s sssss. Damn it!

I just can't say the "S" word on ATS anymore because people "forgot" what it stands for.

We need a vaccine to fight of these people!

I'm no anti vaccine per se, actually support quite a few of them. However, while fence sitting, have seeing what's going on with both sides. There is a big push for the stopping of vaccine exception laws. So far it's been positively met in some places despite the opposition. Being a big topic spreading to the MSM news it's has gained a lot of attention. Wouldn't be shocked if part of that pro lobby is active throughout the net.

a reply to: PeterMcFly

Astroturfing?? Like artificial grass, i am sorry i dont't follow.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

please point us to the threads on ATS to back up your claims.

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
a reply to: PeterMcFly

Astroturfing?? Like artificial grass, i am sorry i dont't follow.

Fake grass-roots movements. Like how "Free Tibet" is just a CIA front to destabilize China.

Does that help?

a reply to: bitsforbytes

Astroturfing?? Like artificial grass, i am sorry i dont't follow.

Astroturfing is a PR term:
Astroturfing

See also:
Public relations
The Opinion-Shaping Process
The Knowledge-Shaping Process