Originally posted by dbrandtI'm not quite sure what church you are referring to that has it backwards. If you mean the Catholic church,
I agree, that denomination is not true christianity.
I made no distinction dbrandt, I clearly stated; “the Christian church,” which
encompasses all religions adhering to Jesus as the messiah. And you are sadly mistaken if you think they have it backwards, for theirs is what all
other Christian denominations derive their beginning and their doctrine. You may choose to believe that yours, whatever it may be is correct, however,
all yours and all else have done is taken what you want from the RCC and molded it to fit your view. The fact remains that all Christian doctrine
comes to you from Rome and you as well as I, are not privy to all of the documentation they had at their disposal. However, it appears that I am more
knowledgeable of the documentation that is available, and have shown the NT as wel as that doctrine, including the death of Jesus, to be more than
contradictory in tens of posts on this forum. So I say to you, the teaching of false prophets is made by false prophets to lead those like you to
believe that any others you listen to are the false prophets. Interesting concept no? In fact dbrandt, all of your Christian churches are wrong. Can
you prove me wrong without resorting to your Bible to prove your Bible?
My friend, I do not need to ask God to show me your truth, there is not much truth in that, but he has shown me his, and his alone, more than you can
imagine. You see dbrandt, any authority has the power to say to the masses, believe what I say and anyone else who says differently lies. Over time as
that authority rules, it becomes historical words where fact and fiction are obscured, where you learn your lessons from a young age based on those in
authority playing with your malleable mind. I have said this many times before but in fewer words, and to understand it requires the reader to remove
the blockage they have because of an unwillingness to learn. God’s wisdom is indeed within the covers of the two testaments, but it has been blurred
and blotted by the intervention of man and his manipulation, evil, erudite, stupid or otherwise. This is evident by the prosaic disruptions of men
desperately seeking to apologize in his name for that which they do not understand, or to just usurp his benevolence as being a grace sanctified only
unto themselves. It is truly simple. God, not Jesus, created us all. He has granted no right of philosophical judgement to any race, creed, select men
or man made religion to take the lead and preach their interpretation of his word to the masses. Why? because he has actually given that ability to
every single human being, and we carry that within every fibre of our being, there to be tapped into freely without having to be led like lost sheep.
If a human, any human would allow their inner guidance more authority over themselves than they do others, then no one, no one dbrandt! would cause us
to, or give us an exception for disobeying any of the ten commandments.
You would know this to be so dbrandt if you spent any time at all reading much of the words I have provided as written by the early church fathers,
for what you present to me as your position is that which took them centuries to ratify by force and pass down to you as a justification for the
obvious flaws of the tale within the gospels. It does not matter how many times you wish to call Jesus God, it will never reduce the words of your
creator, the one that is his father, yours and mine; I, even I, am the Lord, and beside me there is no saviour.
to mean someone he did not
specifically proclaim to be he also. To believe otherwise is to believe that your God is weak, afraid to die and most importantly has to beg himself
not to kill himself; “…Father…let this cup pass from me…”
and …my God, my god, why hast thou forsaken
I feel like I have been reduced to preaching here, something I did not want to do, but it seems that everyone defending their so-called Bible, either
the OT or both books, just finds it necessary to apologize for man spun tales of God’s anger as though he were a mortal parent filled with mortal
shortcomings on the one hand and declare his plan and complexity unknown as a means to excuse themselves from logically explaining the why on the
other hand. But no one actually defends God, dbrandt and that offends me. I have provided many statements made within The Bible in response to you and
others, and you all respond with circular logic, logic based on philosophy of faith, or abandon the thread or do not answer those directly because you
cannot and are afraid to do so lest it strains that which you feel you must hold fast to in order to gain eternal life, that ingrained but not true
innate reasoning. Examine your subconscious and you will see that I am correct in my assessment. God needs no press secretaries, he needs no
mullahs, imams, priests, bishops, rabbis, ministers, evangelicals or earthly sons to speak to you, and he has chosen none, for if he did dbrandt, they
would all, every single one of them, be telling you the same story, and living exactly as they tell you that you should live. The great lie is that
the other is Satan talking. In fact, the very man you worship above even God himself is credited with telling you that to pray you should enter your
closet and you call on the one and only God, he does not tell you to call him Jesus or Christ, he tells you to call him "Our father."
You may accuse me if you wish of not reading the Bible if that gives you comfort. I will openly state that you and most in here do not actually read
it all, you may read parts of it, you probably read them based on whatever research points you can find to support your arguments, but you do not
understand any. For if you did dbrandt, you would not have need to be picking and choosing the method of apology you each apply to your own
philosophy; i.e: some is spiritual, some is literal some is mystery, yet no Christian in here can actually agree on anything other than Jesus is their
saviour. What does that tell you? It tells me that confusion reigns and you will choose to manipulate the scriptures anyway you like to make it suit
your purpose. I on the other hand have been consistent. I have consistently told you there are truths. Those truths are found in profundity,
profundity which lies within the subconscious good of every man, woman and child, they cannot be rationalized dbrandt. The blatant contradictions can
only be argued away with excuses, and in pointing out those I am also consistent.
So you wish to speak to Hitler still do you? I say he is not relevant. But you are correct he is proof that mankind without God will destroy himself,
he has very good company in George W. Bush. and every world leader who lives by the sword. Follow any of them in their warring and fractious ways, and
you too are of they…an enemy as described between the pages.
Fine you stick with those beliefs of yours, but I am here to tell you that Jesus was never mentioned in the Old Testament, there is no original sin,
there was no foreshadowing of anything within the OT to the NT. And when you stop making up stories to suit your own wishes as I have said above, your
eyes will open as to whom is the one, only and singular God…your creator.