Errors in the Bible

dbran, i find it acturly amusing that around 6 different people throw questions at you pointing out the holes in your faith and all u can do is reply to one of them, and quote the bible while answering it.
Let me ask, have u studied judaism, buddism, hinduism, muslim, taoism, and confuciusism etc etc? Untill u see that there is more than your "HIM" and that simply one persons philosophy apon life is the only way to live, you are just fooling yourself. People are not here to critisize your beliefs, people are trying to make you see that there is more out there than "HIM". My advice to you is study all different theologies, and philiosophies and then take the best concepts, beliefs and morals from each and apply them to your life.

And yes by the way there is no such thing as right and wrong, how ever much i might seem immoral to you, your concept of morals will differ to another person. As to say, if a person killed a family member of yours infront of you and you had a gun in your hand, whould you shoot them back? A pacifist wouldnt, yet most common people would. So if a pacifist called you immoral for it, would u think you were right or wrong?
The universe was made in choas and it is still in choas, there is no councious being like ourselves with a certain sesne of morals sitting high up in the clouds with a wooden hammer judging humans actions.

And since when do christians acturly follow the 10 commandents anyway? Adultry is very common in modern western society were they are mainly christian based. So that commandent doesnt really matter? Ahhh dont let me forget about the whole christian murder thing. The crusades is one, the so called war on terroism (next crusade), and even the christian backed capital punishment. So yet you act liek christians have these set of moral values that they follow so strictly, yet when the head of the catholic church a big christian faction the pope has decalred bloody wars agaisnt another religions?

Religion has only giving us a basis for our legal and moral system, now this is ALLLL is had done. Yet religion was human made, so hence our moral system was human made. So god didnt do much there. Other than that religion has hinderd the human race so much. The dark ages was the biggest surpression on literature in history, which was due to christianity.
Ignorance and religion goes hand in hand. Do not take any religion seriously, it is just a way of living. So if u can create your own way of living and your own moral codes on what is right and wrong what is there a need for any surpreme omnipotent being? None.

Look into your own heart rather than looking into the sky. There is much more inside us that there is up there.

● Any man or woman who consults the spirits of the dead shall be stoned. Leviticus 20:27

● Put to death any woman that practises magic. Exodus 22:18

● Condemn to death anyone who offers sacrifices to any god except to me, the lord. Exodus 22:20

● If a friend or a member of your family leads you to another god� kill them! Be the first to stone them, and let everyone else stone them too. Stone them to death! 13:6-10

● Kill all the inhabitants of any town where you find people that worship differently than you, kill their livestock and burn the town to the ground. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

● If you hear of someone worshipping other gods, then investigate thoroughly. Two or more witnesses need to testify against them, and only then can that person be stoned to death. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

● Anyone who disobeys a priest or does not want to listen, they are to be put to death. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

● Anyone claiming to be a prophet but is actually false they are to be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20

● Don�t associate with non-Christians. Don�t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 10

●Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

● Whoever denies �that Jesus is the Christ� is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

● Christians are �of God;� everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

● The non-Christian is �a deceiver and an anti-Christ� 2 John 7

● Anyone who doesn�t share Paul�s beliefs has �an evil heart.� Hebrews 3:12

● Everyone will have to worship Jesus - whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10

● A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33

to me all of the above is an error. they are all in the bible but i think are wrong. how in the world can anyone teach those quotes above. that is ignorance at its best, where's the love that i hear many christians talk about? i don't see much of it from those quotes from the bible. i see much hate, anger, death and destruction portrayed above. many of todays christians will forget about the crusades, the slaughter of 100,000s who did not uphold the christian faith. they will also try and forget the real bible, which is what those above quote show. that's the real bible...kill kill kill. how can anybody in their right mind say that the bible is still relavant in the world we live in today!

these quotes did not come from the kjv. it would take to much time to go over each and everyone correctly with u. u cannot just read one verse without reading the whole chapter. and its best not to read from todays words use the kjv. all i can say u misquoted everything i will go over only one example of your misquote with u. for i dont have time for the rest right now. Romans 8:33 says" who will lay anything to the charge of Gods elect? It is God that justifieth." answer is this christians can sin but if they r truly following his words they wont sin. it is God who will judge the christains far worse than man could give them.

i see you picked out the one that can be interpreted differently according to you. those others are pretty much the short version of what some verses say in the bible. the verses will go in to detail about why you should stone someone to death, or burn their town to the ground. i thought that wasn't too important and thought that i may aswell give just the tone of the verse as a whole. im not sure if its the KJV, but it is the bible my primary school gave me when i left.

if you go to the chapters and verses i put then you can read for yourself when it lays down the laws of chrisitianity that the message conveyed is one of 'do not socialize with other christians, kill those who worship a different god, burn the town of those who upose the christian faith'. that's the clear message intended by the bible, which is the way christians would interpret the bible. however, today it seems we have more sense not to run around murdering those, like cathers, who upose 'your' teachings of the christianity.

it looked to me like you just want to fight over the bible. someone told you that didnt have time to explain it all. choose your last one. and that wasnt good enough for you. stop fighting. look around you who does the killing today honestly is it really christians. Christains as in people who follow the kjv. i didnt say catholics or other religions i said christains.

Reincarnation used to be in the bible too...but it was removed......the bible has been added to, taken from so much......it's laughable to me when someone says it's the true word of god! How can that be when it has parts changed, whole scrolls left out and things added to it?

Because it's the only thing we have left that details stories which inform us about the structure of the religion maybe??? Duh.

the bible IS a error

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Now unless you believe in reincarnation, and that you lived pre-Jesus, how do you know your sin put Jesus on the cross?

Isaiah 53:5-6 But He(Jesus) was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way(doing and believing anything we want too) and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

[edit on 8-1-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
This is what is called an apology, to interpret what is not there in the Bible in order to make it fit a lacking validity of your point of view . Nowhere does God exclude the giants, and nowhere does he offer repentance. Now I can do the same as you if you wish and state; God was sorely annoyed that he did not anticipate his angels copulating with men, and hoped to wipe the slate clean. But he must have so been seeing red, he forgot to check his genealogy chart which would have told him that Noah�s bloodline was infected and would produce Goliath and Gog.
More apology and certainly not an erudite explanation either since, as you can see above if the angels took all but the 4, the line of giants continued, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news to you, but Jesus is not mentioned or inferred.Who is he, surely you are not claiming satan caused pharoah to drown babies are you? Just to be sure you read your Bible before you respond and embarrass yourself, I refer you Gen. 10:27.
Now you pick on the book of Esther, the only book in all of The Bible to speak specifically to the political climate and nothing else.
When God in Genesis told Adam and Eve a savior was coming, satan heard it too and had been trying to prevent the birth of the SaviorHe did, did he? Is this yet another Christian interpretation of that which is not offered? I suggest to you then that, satan knew nothing about a saviour, nor did Adam and Eve, and neither God nor anyone else, made such a prediction. Nor was satan privy to the future, or he would know according to you and your rubric, that he cannot win.
My oh my, you do reach. For all you know this was one was of Gods acts whereby he was once more mightily upset with the Jews, and caused them to suffer, yet again. A remnant? A remnant? God tells you that everyone will bow to the Jews, including you!

Noah was a preacher of righteousness the Bible tells us. He would have been telling the people at that time what he was doing and why he was doing it. God is a God of mercy and grace. Mercy-not receiving what we deserve. Grace-receiving what we don't deserve. God is omnipotent so He knew what would happen, nothing surprises Him. Look at Isaiah 46;9-10 He tells us that He declares the end from the beginning. The fallen angels and satan made a 2nd attempt after the flood. Genesis 6 tells us that and we read about this 2nd group of giants later in the Bible. Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world and Gen. 3:15 talks of the seed of the woman which is Jesus. Jesus has been God's plan of our sin problem from before He made the universe. I am saying that if men like Phaoroah and Haman and Herod choose to follow satan(knowingly or unknowingly) they become instruments satan uses. No book of the Bible is there without being useful in determing eternal things. God told satan in Genesis that the seed of the woman would bruise his(satan's) head. God also made sacrificed an animal and made coats of skin for Adam and Eve. God initiated the sacrificial system that would be a foreshadowing of Christ. So He would have told them why He did it. Because we later see that Abel gave the right offering to God and Cain didn't, so it is apparent that God explained to them what was the correct offering for sin because one did it right and one wrong. Abel came to God as God prescribed and Cain came to God through his own labors opposite of what God said. I wonder about satan and his knowing his own future. We know satan knows what the Bible says because He quoted scripture to Christ during the temptation in the wilderness. Pride is an awful blinding force and it appears that satan still holds out some sort of hope that he can yet beat God.
If you look into Hitler you will find out he was into the occult and was an instrument of satan and yes God allowed this to happen. My Bible says in Philippians 2:10-11 that, at the name of Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord.

Originally posted by wang
dbran, i find it acturly amusing that around 6 different people throw questions at you pointing out the holes in your faith and all u can do is reply to one of them, and quote the bible while answering it.
people are trying to make you see that there is more out there than "HIM". So if u can create your own way of living and your own moral codes on what is right and wrong what is there a need for any surpreme omnipotent being? None.

Look into your own heart rather than looking into the sky. There is much more inside us that there is up there.

As far as replying to only one question, I didn't know I had a time limit to answer posts. I have given more answers now. I believe that God has written in the Bible things He wants us to know which are truthful, so of course I'm going to answer questions with Bible verses, that's a given. And since this is called "Errors in the Bible" it seems to me that the Bible is the book we are talking about, so to explain what some consider to be errors, using the Bible and what the Bible really says is the only sensible thing to do.


My own right and wrong comes from God not me, that's why christians and all people should read the Bible, because we don't know right and wrong. You say why do we need a supreme omnipotent being? Because mankind is fallen and our hearts are deceived by sin. God is revealed to us through the Bible. I didn't make up my own right and wrong, He tells us. And it's the same for everyone. Without a standard for everyone to measure up to anything goes. And if anybody has the right to look about and live by there own "god's ways" then anything is right for that person, then we can't tell them their wrong. Do you see how this is a destructive deterriorating way to live for society.

I'll say it again if there is no standard of right and wrong then anything goes. Scott Peterson wanted to get rid of Laci and Connor. That's what his "heart" wanted. Who are we to tell him that he shouldn't have what he wants. He decided that this was the way he wanted to live his life, so who are we to judge him and put him on trial and sentence him to death. Hitler thought he saw a Jew problem and killed millions. Maybe he was right, just think if he had gotten all the jews then the palestinians would be able to have there own homeland today and there would be no Middle East problem anymore. Oil would be cheaper, we could have more money to spend on stuff because gas would be cheaper thus our economy could be stronger.

You see this doesn't fly, it doesn't make sense. Of course there has to be a right and wrong or anybody could and should be allowed to do anything they want.

The book of Judges begins and ends with the truth that there was no king(God) in Israel in those days, and everyone did what was right in his or her own eyes. There is a story in there about a man who had a mistress and he threw her out of a house to let some men rape her all night long so they would leave him alone. In the morning he found her and she was dead and he was made that this happened. So he cut her body into peices and distributed them around Israel and told the other tribes what happened. Man knid without a king(God ) does horrible things. Like killing your pregnant wife and wrapping her up and throwing her in the water to get rid of her. Like strapping explosives around yourself and blowing up as many people as you can. Like running airplanes into buildings and creating destruction. Like locking your kids in a closet and starving them to death. Like seeing a little 2 year old girl playing outside of an apartment building in California in broad daylight and so someone grabs her and rapes her and kills her and leaves the body allwithin a couple of hours.

I could go on and on. Mankind is wicked. We can become unwicked, but only after receiving Christ and learning the truth about what's right and what's wrong and then we become changed too.

Sorry for copying and pasting, but here is some more info to add to the debate, a few facts some may not be aware of:
� The idea of the �carpenter� is a translation error. The English translation of
�carpenter� comes from the Hebrew word naggar, via the Greek, ho tekton. These words do not mean literally a �carpenter�, but people who were masters of their craft and the word was applied to teachers and scholars as well as craftsmen. Jesus was definitely not born in a stable and not a single gospel claims this is so. The Christmas nativity is complete invention. The concept comes from Luke�s Gospel43 which says that Jesus was laid in a manger, an animal feeding box, because there was no room in the inn. But the Greek version, from which the English translation
came, says there was no �topos� in the �kataluma� - there was no place in the room.44 Matthew�s Gospel specifically states that Jesus was in a house: �And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary, his mother, and fell down and worshipped him.�45 Mangers were often used for babies when a proper cradle was not available, but they moved the manger to the baby, not the baby to the
manger!
� The nativity scene apparently originates with St Francis of Assisi in Greccio, Italy, in 1223 AD.46 He brought together some local people and their livestock to illustrate the birth of Jesus and this nativity scene quickly caught on. Manger scenes carved from wood became popular all over Italyat Christmas and the rest is history. Giving gifts is not a Christian custom, either. This was done in the Pagan world at New Year long before Christianity. The Christians simply borrowed it, as they did everything
else.
� The prophecies said that the �messiah� (messeh, the crocodile of Egypt) would be called Emmanuel, but the name of the Gospel �messiah� was Jesus, or at least its Judean equivalent. Oops! Funny how Christians seem to miss this point when they quote the prophecy about the coming of �Emmanuel� every Christmas. Think of all those children who have been dressed up as Mary, Joseph, shepherds, wise men, donkeys, cows and sheep. This fantasy has been used to indoctrinate countless generations to believe that this is how it all happened, when, in truth, the nativity
and the Christmas story are the acting out of translation errors, an invention of St Francis, and the mid-winter rituals of Pagan beliefs.
� The Christian Eucharist, when they eat bread and drink wine to symbolise thebody and blood of Christ, originates with a cannibalistic ritual when they ate and drank the real thing in animal and human sacrifices. Most of the Christian terms come from the Greek, including Christ and Christianity. Among many others are Church (the Lord�s House), Ecclesiastical (Ecclesia, the Greek Assembly or Parliament), Apostle (missionary), Presbyter/priest (elder), and baptism (immersion).
� Even according to the Gospel stories, Jesus was surrounded by terrorists. Simon Magus was known as Simon Zelotes (the Zealot) to acknowledge his role as a commander of the Zealots, the �freedom fighters� who advocated a war against the Romans. Another description is Simon �Kananites�, a Greek word meaning fanatic. This was translated into English as Simon the Canaanite! Judas �Iscariot� derives from
the word Sicarius, which meant assassin. There was a terrorist group called the Sicani or Sons of the Dagger, and this name comes from the word, Sica, meaning curved dagger. Sicarius became the Greek, Sikariotes, and this was later mistranslated intoEnglish as Iscariot. The Zealots-Sicani would raid Roman supply caravans and ambush their soldiers very much along the lines of terrorist groups like the IRA in Northern Ireland.
� People were not crucified for theft which makes the story of the two thieves crucified with Jesus another invention. It is a �steal� once again because the same story was told about some of the pre-Christian Jesus figures. The punishment for the �crimes� Jesus was accused of in the Gospels would have been stoning to death by the Judean authorities, not the Romans.
� Pontius Pilatus, the Roman Procurator in this period, is supposed to have washed his hands and passed on responsibility for the death of �Jesus� to the crowd. The washing of hands to indicate innocence was the custom of the Essene community.47 The Bible says that it was the Roman custom at the time of the Passover Festival to offer a prisoner for release, but this is simply not true. There was no such custom and the scene is invention.


Too add to this (im sorry if anyone has already posted any of this)
There is absolutely no inscriptional evidence whatsoever, nor any ancient Greek or Roman reference, for the existence of Abraham or any of the Jewish patriarchs or prophets of the Old Testament, nor for Moses, Saul, David, Solomon, nor any of the Jewish kings, with the mere exception of two, or at most three, of the later kings.

There are many mistranslations in the Bible, and a misunderstanding of Judaism, from Europeans. There are many variants of Bibles and many different sects that have different books, in there Bible. For instance in Ethiopia, they have a different book, other than Genesis, where Eve sins twice. There where many sects like the Gnostics and others that where around that had different philosophies on the Bible. The Gnostics believed that the God in the Old Testament was evil, and Jesus was the good spiritual God. The Church went and slaughtered anyone that strayed from there chosen philosphies. They buried books that took power away from them, one being the book of Thomas, that Jesus says God is in every one of us and you do not need church. This took power away from the Church, so of course they did not want this to get out. The sad thing is every religon, use to be pure. Man has corrupted it and used it for power. The truth is it all comes down to faith. If you believe in the bible and it works for you, that's great, but I don�t. I believe in God, but I do not believe in organized religion.

Originally posted by dbrandtIsaiah 53:5-6 But He(Jesus) was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way(doing and believing anything we want too) and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

As I have said before, it is great to be able to create a fable based on past statements of a prophecy. Since you quote Isaiah, and the church’s hijacking of Isaiah and David’s prophecies for a messiah, in order to carve out the believability of Jesus as the saviour, you should make an effort to understand what you read, and to do that you need only look back to chapter 52, where it is God speaking, then note in chapter 53, the Fourth servant Song, the speaker is not God, but another speaking plurally. Further, in your Bible, I am sure you note the present tense which is in keeping with the prophecy of your Christian teachings, however, the correct translation of all of it, from Hebrew is past tense. You are confused, for God speaks for 52 chapters previously of the greatness of his favoured son Israel, and then you read 53 as being a reference to a man, and one can only continue on with chapter 54, to note the change in voice once more, particularly verse 3; …and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles and make the desolate cities to be inherited.” In other words, the song is reflective Israel’s travails, where one can understand this when one looks to verse 13, where God speaks of his ‘servant,” the same servant as in 49:3 ”…Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.” and if by chance you are still confused as to the works of this servant, then read 49:6 ”And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.’

You see dbrandt, the Christian church has it all backwards, and you would know this if you took the time to learn about your religion, because you would find that as much as they tried to incorporate hindsight into their philosophy, they neglected to truly keep all of the published books of The Bible away from the public and peering eyes.

But since you wish to turn to Isaiah, I find it only fair that I show you the error of your reporting, and so will quote you other verses, starting with 43: 25: I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.” Lest you are confused that God speaks of himself only, verse 11, which should probably be my signature, since I quote it so often, answers the question:I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.” That one in the 5 or 6 times, I have quoted it, sends the Christian apologists running to the hills. The early church fathers found it necessary to create their own fable which Christians fall for, and let me make it very clear why Isaiah has nothing to do with Jesus. Chapter 7:14:15:Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good…” Now if at all that refers to anyone in the NT, it would come close only to John the Baptist, for Jesus enjoyed his meat and fish far too much. Now you can also believe if you wish that Immanuel meaning; God is with us, means the same as that of Joshua/Jesus; the Lord saves, and so claim it is one and the same, in which case you would be wise to acquaint yourself with the meaning of Jonathan, as well as all the high priests known as Jesus in the days of Herod and of the Jesus of the NT.

Carrying on then, that brings me to 44:6: ”…I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” AND 45:22: ”Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of earth; for I am God, and there is none else.” As you can clearly see, God is making it very clear that it is he to whom one must look for salvation and glory. I now take you back to 42:8 for yet more testimony on Israel: ”I am the Lord: that is my name; and my glory will I not give it to another, neither my praise to graven images” That is the most relevant passage of all to show just how the church and Christians blasphemed the book of Isaiah. Further, since it covers verses 7 through 20, I give you only the highlights.

Those who make graven images are vain and shall not profit, including the carpenter who makes anything of wood and fits it with an image of a man and keeps it in his church. And if he falls down and worships same, prays to it and asks for deliverance, is doing so to an abomination, and his soul cannot be saved.

Does the crucifix mean anything at all to you dbrandt?

This is my favorite, and I dont know if it has been posted yet, but you do not have to dig very far to find it. I will post the KJV 1611, or any other translation one wishes.

Ge=Genisis

Ge 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Ge 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Ge 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Ge 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And then latter........

Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ge 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Ge 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Ge 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

Ge 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

Ge 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

Ge 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

Ge 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

Ge 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Ge 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat

Ge 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Ge 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Ge 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Originally posted by dbrandt
Noah was a preacher of righteousness the Bible tells us. He would have been telling the people at that time what he was doing and why he was doing it...

You have not supported your claim on the giants and the verses I quoted save to find it necessary to apologize for The Bible. The statement I provided was very clear, God was supposedly angry about the wickedness of man and the giant offspring of his angels, but found Noah redeeming, and in so saving he and his family, he allowed the giant race to continue. Therefore this begs the question; if he knew it would happen again, he had no reason to kill off everyone the first time did he? Now, I planted a thought in your head, and you went right along trying to defend it, without recognizing the paradox of 6:1:8, when in fact, the verses say nothing about God being angry with the angels or the giants. Is that not so? In fact it specifically said he repented that he had made man, where it has to be accepted that if he knew Noah carried the giant gene, he would be repenting again, and if that is not the case he certainly, according to you, would have known that Canaan was a bad seed, yet he saved him also. So his omnipotence is only not in question, so is his judgement.

Gen. 3:15 talks of the seed of the woman which is Jesus.

Really! Are you sure you want to hold fast to this belief? If the serpent is satan, then what are the cattle and beast he also holds as being cursed? I suggest to you that the enmity he speaks to is that which he himself places between man and satan and or the literal serpent, because as you can see Jesus was about 3,000 years away, and before him there were many pious and just people, starting with Abram, and particularly with Moses who are just as responsible for spreading God’s love and laws, and without whom, and by your thinking, every man, woman and child would have succumbed to satan. Believe it or not, subconsciously that is understood by you in this:

I am saying that if men like Phaoroah and Haman and Herod choose to follow satan(knowingly or unknowingly) they become instruments satan uses.

God initiated the sacrificial system that would be a foreshadowing of Christ.

Have you actually read the entire book of Isaiah, or do you just accept as fact bits and pieces chosen by others to make their case for Christianity? That nonsense was invented by church fathers and Paul, to link the death of a man to the OT. And I have spoken to the sacrificial requirements before as being one of those contradictions within the OT, but since you believe this is why he created sacrifices, then it is about time I introduce you to: Isaiah 1:11:12”To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? Saith the Lord: I am full of burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread y courts?”

Now for having made this invented foreshadowing, he certainly berates the sacrificers thousands of years later and hundreds before Jesus, for having done so, doesn’t he? And he doesn’t stop there, in fact he brazenly asks why they did it. Isn’t that correct dbrandt? What you read there I am afraid has nothing to do with Jesus’ death. What you read is an attempt by the Jewish priests to move the Jews away from sacrifices during the days that such rituals were being questioned by various cultural influences. Further, the very sect that Jesus’ followers belonged to is the Pharisees, who, long before his time, did not believe in sacrifices. They also believed in the angels and resurrection, sound familiar? and are responsible for the Mishnah and Talmud. Another small piece of information; they and the Seduccees did not see eye to eye.

If you look into Hitler you will find out he was into the occult and was an instrument of satan

He was an evil man, of that I agree, and alongside him other world leaders, both political and religious, including those well liked by some today, will take their place beside him, but I fail to see how this is relevant to the discussion.

Pride is an awful blinding force and it appears that satan still holds out some sort of hope that he can yet beat God.

And so you will not question what is told you of Jesus, but you will attempt to get into the head of one of God’s higher creations will you? How trite! For to even suggest such a thing to yourself you would be questioning that which you have come to blindly believe, and of course, you dare not test fate out of fear.

and yes God allowed this to happen. My Bible says in Philippians 2:10-11 that, at the name of Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord.

Well I have better than words written by the pagan and false prophet Paul, for whose words are boss, a pagan man’s or God’s? ”And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one…And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts, and to keep the feast of the tabernacles.’ And that dbrandt, is also in Your Bible, and those feasts are not those of Paul’s fantasy or his incense loving fantasy he calls God.

Im sure someone's probably said this already somewhere in this thread but im sleepy and theres alot of replys.
I pesonally belive the world would be a much better, nicer place if there was no such thing as 'religion', it causes so many wars.
Religions is meant to mean loving one another, i mean most religions are pretty much the same, and the main message in most is love everyone and everything, but they become so obcessed (this is a general statement by the way) with who's religion is right they forget the point of it all.

i think we're at the end here, i and others have found errors...yet obviously they're still being denied on here. don't think we're coming to any kind of agreement any time soon

Originally posted by shaunybaby
i think we're at the end here, i and others have found errors...yet obviously they're still being denied on here. don't think we're coming to any kind of agreement any time soon

Its riddled with errors, and my previous post shows that they start VERY early ( first 2 pages in most bibles).

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
You see dbrandt, the Christian church has it all backwards, and you would know this if you took the time to learn about your religion,
But since you wish to turn to Isaiah, I find it only fair that I show you the error of your reporting, and so will quote you other verses, starting with 43: 25: I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.” Lest you are confused that God speaks of himself only, verse 11, which should probably be my signature, since I quote it so often, answers the question:I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.”Chapter 7:14:15:Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good…” Now if at all that refers to anyone in the NT, it would come close only to John the Baptist, for Jesus enjoyed his meat and fish far too much. Carrying on then, that brings me to 44:6: ”…I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” AND 45:22: ”Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of earth; for I am God, and there is none else.” As you can clearly see, God is making it very clear that it is he to whom one must look for salvation and glory. I now take you back to 42:8 for yet more testimony on Israel: ”I am the Lord: that is my name; and my glory will I not give it to another, neither my praise to graven

I'm not quite sure what church you are referring to that has it backwards. If you mean the Catholic church, I agree, that denomination is not true christianity. They are one of the ones Christ refers to when he says there will come many false prophets that will deceive many. Jehovah witnesses and the foursquare denomination and mormons are in that group also. But if you attend a church that speaks the truth and are saved(and what that means) and sincerely ask God to show you the truth then today an individual can truly Know God and what the Bible says.

Now if I am understanding the rest of your post you are saying that there is a contradiction in the Bible. That God claims to be the one and only Savior and since this is so Jesus was not the Savior. If that's the case and you are saying that, then there is no contradiction. God, himself is the only Savior of mankind. Jesus Christ is God, who came into the world to save mankind, no contradiction. You also state an Isaiah verse and state it can't be talking about Jesus and it has to be about John the Baptist because Jesus ate other food. There are physical applications to the Bible and spiritual. We KNOW those verses talk of Christ so if we see something that doesn't add up we only need to dig deeper. That is talking about a spiritual sense. There are places in the Bible where butter and honey symbolically refer to the ways and word of God. So it's saying That Jesus, will when He comes, live for God and do what God wants.

There are dual apllications all throughout the Bible. Now I am not going to accuse you of not reading the Bible because I don't know you and I don't live in your house with you and see what you do all day long. But the reverse works also. Last time I looked I didn't see you in my house, so for you to say that I need study up on christianity and the Bible is rather lame and is simply a sentence to make me look stupid and you look intelligent. Do I know everything in the Bible, no. Why? because there are too many things too know. You can read a verse in the Bible 254 times and on the 255th time, God could reveal something to you that you've never seen before. EX. John the Baptist makes this statement in the Bible referring to Jesus and His ministry . "He(Jesus) must increase and I(John) must decrease". Now that means John's ministry must become less and Jesus ministry must become greater. But there is a dual application to this and it's spiritual and physical and applies to me(or any saved person) also, some 2000 years later.. It is this, once a person has accepted Christ, My ways that I was born with must cease to exist and a new nature from God must take over my life. Ex. of one area of this is hatred. I need to stop hating people. I may hate what they do if it's wrong but for me to hate the person is wrong. Hatred for someone who has offended me has to stop also. My sins have offended God yet through Christ, God has forgiven me, so I have no right to hide unforgiveness and hatred in my heart for that person.

This is the Bible in a nutshell. Mankind is seperated from God by our sin. God is holy and just and sin must be punished. Christ took our sin and if we receive His sacrificial death in our place we can be restored to a right relationship with God now, and for all eternity. Now the Bible is way longer than 3 sentences, so throughout are examples of what other people have done(right things and wrong things) and instruction from God on how a person who truly wants to know Him can do that.
Believe it or not, it's up to you.


[edit on 16-1-2005 by dbrandt]

[edit on 16-1-2005 by dbrandt]