Errors in the Bible

Originally posted by LadyV
I have read and do investigate....but I'm not Christian, do not want to be and never could be.

Good because I am always finding new things in the Bible. You know how Adam and Eve chose their own route and then and to take a different and harder way. I was watching someone talk about the parts in the OT where the Israelites had to war with the inhabitants of Caanan to get the land. In an earlier part of the OT God told them that He (God) Himself would put fear into the inhabitants of the land and send them out of the promised land. It says God told them He would send hornets into the land and drive the peoples away. ( I didn't catch that part before while reading) 12 spies were sent into the land to take a look at it and report back to the approx 2.5 million others. When they got back they said yes the land is flowing with milk and honey like God said but guess what the inhabitants are giants and we look like grasshoppers in their eyes, we cannot take the land. For their disobedience(just like Adam and Eve) they had to wander in the desert for 40 years and most of the ones from 40 years earlier died there in the desert. Then they had to fight to take the land. And when they entered the first village to spy it out, they find Rahab and she says to them, "Where have you been, when you were first here 40 years ago the town was scared to death of you because we saw what your God does for you. What has kept you." God would have driven them out with no bloodshed but the lack of trust and faith and disobedience in what God said brought them to having to war for the land.

You say you have no desire to be a christian, you realize that Paul thought the same thing.

Originally posted by dbrandt


You say you have no desire to be a christian, you realize that Paul thought the same thing.

Yes...so? What are implying dbrandt?

Originally posted by LadyV
No...I'm saying they have no business judging others life and their choice.....stay out of other peoples business.

So if I'm traveling down a road with the a washed out bridge at night and nearly have a wreck, and I turn around and a few hundred feet later see you coming down that same road. The correct thing to do would be to mind my own business and not try to warn you?

Originally posted by wang
It bothers me because there is no abosolute truth...

Are you absolutely sure about that?...

There has to be right and wrong or Scott peterson should be walking free now. He didn't want his wife any longer, he wanted Amber, so he did what he thought was ok and good to do. Without right and wrong and a God who declares this, anything goes!

Originally posted by dbrandt
When they got back they said yes the land is flowing with milk and honey like God said but guess what the inhabitants are giants and we look like grasshoppers in their eyes, we cannot take the land.

And these giants are descendents of whom? Noah? Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,...In other words, God killed man because of the offspring of the fallen angels only to have Noah and his sons propogate more.

Does this make sense to you?

[edit on 1/4/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

Originally posted by LadyV
...I don't want anyone pushing "their" truths on me....because it's "your" truth.....doesn't make it "mine"

So do you mean in this type of forum, because you have to expect to be confronted in here.

Or are you talking in your personal life face to face with others?

Originally posted by dbrandt


There has to be right and wrong or Scott peterson should be walking free now. He didn't want his wife any longer, he wanted Amber, so he did what he thought was ok and good to do. Without right and wrong and a God who declares this, anything goes!

That's not applicable here and you know it. Faith and religious belief is very, very personal....just because you think what you believe is the truth does not make it so! You "believe" it to be so.

Originally posted by LadyV
Yes...so?

What are implying dbrandt?

The God of the Bible loves you. Yes, God will not totally invade and override your free will or anybodies but He is always trying to get our attention. He wants us to love Him because we want to not because we have to.

And I'm in my basement and it's getting cold so I will say goodnight and probably talk to you later.

Originally posted by wang
It bothers me because there is no abosolute truth...truth is a concept made by man. There is no truth to nature or the universe. So when a person claims that a god is teaching me the truth it does bother me becuase it shows me that it is no god trying to teach me such things, just a man who is trying to control my actions, with his so called version of truth.

If there is no absolute truth and there is no right or wrong then anyone can do what ever they choose with out any consequences. All the rules in every society in the world were founded on religious beliefs, ours included. Even if you approach this from a neutral position as stated earlier, all religions and therefore all societies have the same basic values. Don't steel, don't kill, don't lie, etc. now were right back to the basics truths of the Bible, such as the 10 commandments. no one is trying to tie anyone down and shove christianity down their throats, but religion of any kind is based on faith and that means believing in the teachings of that faith. Also, almost every religion is going to try to recruit others to their belifs, just as you are, or you would not be taking part in this disccussion.

Originally posted by dbrandt

So do you mean in this type of forum, because you have to expect to be confronted in here.

Or are you talking in your personal life face to face with others?

I mean here and IRL...I will not be pushed to believe what someone else believes in when I don't. You don't know that what you believe is the truth....you think it is...but that doesn't mean it is! This is not hard here.....you do understand that, right? I believe what I believe...it may not be truth, but I believe it is. It's the same with your beliefs.

Originally posted by dbrandt


And I'm in my basement and it's getting cold so I will say goodnight and probably talk to you later.

Goodnight......yes, we will have to talk later. It's enjoyable.

LadyV quote,

"I believe what I believe...it may not be truth, but I believe it is. It's the same with your beliefs. "

If your not sure what you believe in is true then you don't really believe in it. So what's the point in believing in something that may not be real?

[edit on 4-1-2005 by lonewolf33]

[edit on 4-1-2005 by lonewolf33]

this isn't all my own work, but you want errors in the bible...well how about the real bible.

The books of the New Testament were composed decades after Christ ascended into heaven, and it took centuries for there to be general agreement among Christians as to which books comprised the New Testament. Nobody living today has set eyes on the original texts of any books belonging to the bible. The earliest copies we posses are those of which were made centuries after the original scriptures were written. Like it or not, you have to take the say-so of the Catholic Church, that these copies are indeed as accurate as the original scriptures.

Original Sin, in Christian theology, the universal sinfulness of the human race, traditionally recognized as the first sin committed by Adam. Theologians advocating original sin argue that the concept is strongly implied by the apostle Paul, the apostle John, and even by Jesus himself. Late Jewish writings attribute the world's corruption to a prehistoric fall of Satan, the temptation of Adam and Eve, and the resulting disorder, disobedience, and pain of human history.

If you have an electronic version of the KJV bible, then you will be aware that you can search for words within it. However, one word or phrase you will not find is �original sin�. Ezekiel tells us, �only the original sinner will die, the son is not responsible for the sins of the father�. This shows that the concept of the �original sin� was never even written in to the original scripture. This is purely an alteration by the Catholic Church, which directly contradicts God/Ezekiel. This also means that neither I nor the human race should be responsible for the sin of Adam.

Shocking as it may be to most Christians, Jesus wasn't the founder of Christianity, and to make matters worse, most Christian doctrines such as claims of divinity, Original Sin, and the Trinity rely not only on Paul but also heavily on John, who was a Greek. Jesus was a Jew and taught Judaism. The books that reflect those teachings are the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and James.

The author of Luke was a Syrian from Antioch. Luke was written as an attempt at an historical narrative of the events surrounding Jesus. He never met Jesus but may have met those who did. Luke was a single work and viewed Jesus from Paul's perspective. Paul never met Jesus but only "heard a voice" (Acts 9:4) and proclaimed Jesus as a saviour-God. Rejected by the Apostle James (Acts 21:15) Paul is the real founder of Christianity as we have it today. Paul preached salvation by faith while Jesus preached salvation by works. This was the first split that produced hundreds of churches and sects meeting in homes, synagogues, abandoned pagan temples, etc. In Matthew Jesus seemed to be well received in the synagogues but by the end of Luke the split between Paul/James is apparent and bitter but not hatred. Luke was written around 80-89 AD as was Matthew. Mark was written about 70 AD during the time the Temple was destroyed by the Romans. The destruction of the Temple prophecies was already a past event.

The real purpose of John was to demonize Jews, blaming then for the crucifixion committed by the Romans. A lot of people were converting to Judaism and refused to follow pagan elements introduced into Christianity. The NAB for example refers to the two men that were murdered with Jesus as "revolutionaries." Jesus and his followers were rebels (remember when they tried to arrest Jesus his followers, Peter, etc were armed and cut off ears, etc) and opposed both Rome and their puppets the Temple Fundamentalists. (Sadducees) Jesus was a Pharisee (as were most Jews in Palestine) and clearly opposed the Sadducees/Romans. We couldn't have a rebel Jew against Rome as the centre of the Roman Catholic Church, could we? I think John was inserted at Nicaea around 300 years later.

If Luke was the historical narrative, then why are most of the events in John never mentioned, but Luke basically agrees with Matthew/Mark? John didn't exist when Luke was written, and is the real core of the Christian religion. Without John and Book of the Revelation, there would be no Christianity, just an odd sect of Judaism and a cult founded by Paul. That is all Christianity should have been. The books Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were all written decades after Jesus died by people that never met Jesus. The books Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy were written in four different view points. The four different views preach the fact that God works in different ways from one to the other. These four ideals were combined together, which are now the five beginning books we read in the bible.

The writer of John could not have known Jesus, was not an Apostle, end of story. I do not accept hearsay or any "Holy Spirit" that guided the selection of what went into the Bible in the 4th century. Some alternate Gospels did survive the 4th century and were found in the 1940's in Egypt that survived intact. They have thrown Orthodox Christianity for a scare, as has findings from the Dead Sea Scrolls, which is also why they were not added in to the bible. The first translations of the bible from Hebrew to Latin were done by Constantine. He adopted the Christian faith and employed 50 scholars to translate the bible. It wasn�t until the 1600s when King James decided to make the Latin bible in to English. This was also when the chapter/versus system was introduced, and the order of the bible then was the order of the bible we read now.

We were mortal to begin with and the Adam story is not literal history. Even the Bible proves the concept false and the invention of mainly Paul. The individual is responsible only for their conduct, not that of others and certainly not Adam according to the Old Testament. Christians can't even agree on the subject and their interpretation, in particular Augustine, who flatly contradicts the Old Testament. There was no Devil as such in Judaism prior to the Captivity and Satan later became identified with the Zoroastrian Devil and the Serpent in the Garden. The whole idea is just nonsense and has no Biblical support outside Paul; a man that never even met Jesus.


[edit on 5-1-2005 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Original Sin, in Christian theology, the universal sinfulness of the human race, traditionally recognized as the first sin committed by Adam.
[edit on 5-1-2005 by shaunybaby]

From a christian view sin entered the human race through the disobedience of Adam and Eve. All have been infected and will sin. My forefathers sins could have consequences for me in my here and now life but I need forgiveness for only my personal sins. It was my sin that put Jesus on the Cross.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
And these giants are descendents of whom? Noah? Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,...In other words, God killed man because of the offspring of the fallen angels only to have Noah and his sons propogate more.

Does this make sense to you?

[edit on 1/4/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

During the time Noah built the ark he was also proclaiming to the people the coming judgement of God. Excluding the giants, humans could have repented and believed Noah, but they didn't. (I also believe there were no human children left on earth when the flood came)

Noah and His family had more children because the savior promised by God was to be born. The reason the fallen angels came down and took all the women on the earth except the 4 on the ark was because satan was trying to stop the messiah from coming. He tried it again when he had phaoroah drown hebrew babies. satan tried it again through Haman's attempt to destroy the Jews as told in the Book of Esther. satan tried it agin through Herod and the killing of those 2 years and under after Jesus' birth. When God in Genesis told Adam and Eve a savior was coming, satan heard it too and had been trying to prevent the birth of the Savior. satan failed to stop Jesus, but through Hitler in WW2 he tried to exterminate the Jews to make God a liar. God, in the Bible tells us there will be a remnant of Jews who will be alive when Christ returns to the earth. I don't have all the answers to the "errors" in the Bible but there are explanations for all these so called errors. I don't know what all the conflicts are but I know there are answers to debunk them.

Originally posted by LadyV
I mean here and IRL...I will not be pushed to believe what someone else believes in when I don't. You don't know that what you believe is the truth....you think it is...but that doesn't mean it is! This is not hard here.....you do understand that, right? I believe what I believe...it may not be truth, but I believe it is. It's the same with your beliefs.

Nobody can make you do anything. But in a tread entitled "errors in the Bible" you have to expect to hear from those supporting God and the Bible ,so you can't really get to mad in here because you chose to read these posts.. The truth I believe is based upon ,not me and what I say is truth, but based upon what God says is the truth. If I were on a rocket to outerspace and I had 10 different buttons in a certain order that I needed to push to have a successful journey. I could tell the maker of the ship I believe I know which is the correct order to push for success. Or I could admit to Him I don't know what's the right order and let Him tell me what's right.

Over the years, people have noticed more and more that there are some things in the bible that just do not make sense. This is not recent anymore, it has been going on for many decades. It is quite obvious too, because without those errors, there would be no such thing as logical aethism. The bible has become a human interpretation of a higher being, and people don't tend to agree to human interpretations about what humans themselves can't understand. Many now face dillemas such as "Which way is right?" There are issues as these "New christians" and "Old christians".
I avoid al those hastles and remain an aethist. Why?
Ok, lets defer the attention to schools. How can you expect Christian schools to on one lesson teach children that an apple falls upon your head due to Newton's theories, and the next, have them be taught that its all part of Gods great 'plan' for you?

I personally think that religion is way too illogical and far-fetched. I see religion as more easily being able to be proven wrong, than proven right, asin, proven where the ideas came from, and that they were not based on solid evidence, yet too many people have all this 'blind belief' as I call it, and wont consider alternatives.

Lets look now at it this way. (I�ve tried explaining this many times, and I wasn't very good, so bear with me).
If Science has Logically proven a whole lot about how the world works (gravity, masses attract etc.) Then why can�t it explain why we exist? This is my hypothesis on this question: It is known that the human brain can generate only 7-8% of its full capacity, the reason is unknown, but we'll get to that later. Anyways, the human brain therefore, cannot comprehend things like weightlessness (without experience), time travel, endlessness and so on. Then what stops our scientists from discovering why we exist? The same aspect! We merely cannot comprehend such events, (yet) and that's why we cannot prove anything from that nature. But I still believe that if someone later on actually does prove such a thing, it would be completely logical. I think that all these religions now days, are just people who want to know why? And simply take the easy way out in believing in some higher being that even they can�t explain.

Lets face it, although I�m not sure about other people, but a logical sentence (such as a+b=c) makes much more sense than 'because god made it so". In this case, we simply cant comprehend what the a and b equal to.

Two fish in an aquarium were fighting. For days, they were fighting, and both seperated to a side of the aquarium. They stayed on their own side for days, weeks even, One fish later souldn't take it anymore, and swam over to the other fishes' side, and said:
"Well if there is No god, who do you think changes the aquariums' water?"

Think about it.

Originally posted by dbrandtFrom a christian view sin entered the human race through the disobedience of Adam and Eve. All have been infected and will sin. My forefathers sins could have consequences for me in my here and now life but I need forgiveness for only my personal sins. It was my sin that put Jesus on the Cross.

One of us is confused, and it is not me. On the following thread www.abovetopsecret.com... you claim: "Those who have accepted Christ will live eternally with God." AND SPECIFICALLY this "It doesn't matter what you'e done as far as sins." AND this "Then He died and rose again that I could live forever, that should humble you more."

Ergo, if you accepted Christ there are no consequences for anything prior to this acceptance, and therefore you need no forgiveness.

Now unless you believe in reincarnation, and that you lived pre-Jesus, how do you know your sin put Jesus on the cross?

Originally posted by dbrandt
During the time Noah built the ark he was also proclaiming to the people the coming judgement of God. Excluding the giants, humans could have repented and believed Noah, but they didn't. (I also believe there were no human children left on earth when the flood came)

This is what is called an apology, to interpret what is not there in the Bible in order to make it fit a lacking validity of your point of view . Nowhere does God exclude the giants, and nowhere does he offer repentance. Now I can do the same as you if you wish and state; God was sorely annoyed that he did not anticipate his angels copulating with men, and hoped to wipe the slate clean. But he must have so been seeing red, he forgot to check his genealogy chart which would have told him that Noah�s bloodline was infected and would produce Goliath and Gog.

Noah and His family had more children because the savior promised by God was to be born. The reason the fallen angels came down and took all the women on the earth except the 4 on the ark was because satan was trying to stop the messiah from coming.

More apology and certainly not an erudite explanation either since, as you can see above if the angels took all but the 4, the line of giants continued, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news to you, but Jesus is not mentioned or inferred.

He tried it again when he had phaoroah drown hebrew babies.

He? Who is he, surely you are not claiming satan caused pharoah to drown babies are you? Just to be sure you read your Bible before you respond and embarrass yourself, I refer you Gen. 10:27.

to satan tried it again through Haman's attempt to destroy the Jews as told in the Book of Esther.

Now you pick on the book of Esther, the only book in all of The Bible to speak specifically to the political climate and nothing else.

satan tried it agin through Herod and the killing of those 2 years and under after Jesus' birth.

Oh, how long have I waited for someone to raise this issue. He waited two years for what purpose? The Magi already being in Jerusalem was summoned by good old Herod and told to go find the child in Bethlehem. Satan must be an idiot, for if he controlled Herod, it took him two years to realize that the Magi fooled him considering the distance between the two towns is 5 miles. It supposedly didn�t dawn on Herod that it would not take 2 years to journey 5 miles and ask about all new borns, 2011 years ago. And, I won�t even at this time get into the semantics of how long it took these wise men of the east to travel to Jerusalem and get there before Joseph, Mary and Jesus according to Luke, departed for Jerusalem on the 40th day of his birth. (call this a future discussion, for it surely will be.)

When God in Genesis told Adam and Eve a savior was coming, satan heard it too and had been trying to prevent the birth of the Savior.

He did, did he? Is this yet another Christian interpretation of that which is not offered? I suggest to you then that, satan knew nothing about a saviour, nor did Adam and Eve, and neither God nor anyone else, made such a prediction. Nor was satan privy to the future, or he would know according to you and your rubric, that he cannot win.

satan failed to stop Jesus, but through Hitler in WW2 he tried to exterminate the Jews to make God a liar.

My oh my, you do reach. For all you know this was one was of Gods acts whereby he was once more mightily upset with the Jews, and caused them to suffer, yet again.

God, in the Bible tells us there will be a remnant of Jews who will be alive when Christ returns to the earth.

A remnant? A remnant? God tells you that everyone will bow to the Jews, including you!

I don't have all the answers to the "errors" in the Bible but there are explanations for all these so called errors. I don't know what all the conflicts are but I know there are answers to debunk them.

Actually, I find you have very little understanding of The Bible.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Now unless you believe in reincarnation, and that you lived pre-Jesus, how do you know your sin put Jesus on the cross?

Because that is why Christ came, to take my place. He endured God's wrath for my sins. My sins past(not reincarnation, but sins I committed before I was saved) present and future were placed on Him at the cross. He was born to die, then rose again so I could live. I have put my faith and trust in Him and believe in Him and why He came. The Bible tells us that Jesus is the lamb slain before the foundation of the world.