The Fox News 'War On Christmas' Panic Is Already Starting

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Annee

Jesus is a specific religion. That creates a problem.

My granddaughters elementary school puts on a secular Holiday play. So I know it can be done.

It's not really a problem when it is voluntary.

Voluntary? By who?

If I'm Jewish, atheist, Muslim I am not going to welcome Christianity displayed in public school.

That's pretty narrow minded imo. I'm agnostic and Christian stuff doesn't bother me. Nor Jewish. Not familiar enough with Islam to not be offended by theirs. THAT is the problem today. People just have to be offended by something. Grow up.

Separation of Church & State is narrow minded?

I'd happily go and take my child to a multi-cultural/religious event. Actually I plan on doing a lot of that since Los Angeles is very multi-cultural.

Jesus in his elementary school? NO

That's not what you said:

If I'm Jewish, atheist, Muslim I am not going to welcome Christianity displayed in public school.

Not only speaking for others but yes, it's narrow minded. Or are you saying that no matter what religion you would be, you would be offended by something?

It is what I said.

Are you missing the Public School part?

It's unfair to all non-Christians to allow Christian celebration in public school.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Annee

Jesus is a specific religion. That creates a problem.

My granddaughters elementary school puts on a secular Holiday play. So I know it can be done.

It's not really a problem when it is voluntary.

Voluntary? By who?

If I'm Jewish, atheist, Muslim I am not going to welcome Christianity displayed in public school.

That's pretty narrow minded imo. I'm agnostic and Christian stuff doesn't bother me. Nor Jewish. Not familiar enough with Islam to not be offended by theirs. THAT is the problem today. People just have to be offended by something. Grow up.

Separation of Church & State is narrow minded?

I'd happily go and take my child to a multi-cultural/religious event. Actually I plan on doing a lot of that since Los Angeles is very multi-cultural.

Jesus in his elementary school? NO

That's not what you said:

If I'm Jewish, atheist, Muslim I am not going to welcome Christianity displayed in public school.

Not only speaking for others but yes, it's narrow minded. Or are you saying that no matter what religion you would be, you would be offended by something?

It is what I said.

Are you missing the Public School part?

It's unfair to all non-Christians to allow Christian celebration in public school.

Did you miss the part where you said, "If I was Jewish....." How do you know? Are you any of those? Maybe they don't get bent like others. THAT is my point.

a reply to: Blaine91555
I think that if a teacher wants to pray or say the pledge in class then during that anyone can take a bathroom break and neither of the two shall interfere with the others activity. No body wants to listen to crap.

It was a good point you made and didn't mean to take away from the whole of the post.

a reply to: intrepid

comparison to what?? the only comparison that I can think of that would be close would be hospitals being allowed to deny medical care and risking the health of woman during childbirth for religious reasons, and well, they are being allowed to do that so, who knows!!! but probably not.

a reply to: dawnstar

Didn't take long to inject that into the conversation. Though, it seems to be a free-for-all. So why not?

I have read all of the replies as well as the OP. I honestly feel that everyone complaining about Christmas are also the same people that complain about anything that does not align with your overall beliefs. Stop trying to strip America of its history and traditions. 50 years ago nobody cared or complained about the display of a nativity scene or a Christmas Tree. If people are not physically hurting someone or forcing you to participate then leave them alone. If more people stood together instead of dividing, our society would be so much stronger and civil.

a reply to: dawnstar

What? That has what to do with bringing shrooms to a civic event?

a reply to: Annee

ya know, there are secular ways to celebrate the holiday season, a school could have a fine celebration without a nativity scene. I grew up without them, was never exposed to them in school, and well, well saw them in church yards and some people's yards. And well, we have a fun time celebrating christmas.
This idea that there's a war on christmas because one little aspect isn't being allowed in the school is insane in and of itself.

a reply to: intrepid

you ever see the old portraits or statues of santa claus? many of them show him with red poka dotted mushrooms surrounding him.

"Santa is a modern counterpart of a shaman, who consumed mind-altering plants and fungi to commune with the spirit world," said John Rush, an anthropologist and instructor at Sierra College in Rocklin, Calif.

According to the theory, the legend of Santa derives from shamans in the Siberian and Arctic regions who dropped into locals' teepeelike homes with a bag full of hallucinatory mushrooms as presents in late December, Rush said.

www.livescience.com...

a tradition that is probably older than the christian religion....

originally posted by: AbbaCabba
I have read all of the replies as well as the OP. I honestly feel that everyone complaining about Christmas are also the same people that complain about anything that does not align with your overall beliefs. Stop trying to strip America of its history and traditions. 50 years ago nobody cared or complained about the display of a nativity scene or a Christmas Tree. If people are not physically hurting someone or forcing you to participate then leave them alone. If more people stood together instead of dividing, our society would be so much stronger and civil.

Relatively speaking, only a very teeny tiny miniscule part of the population is complaining now or trying to strip rights. I bet anyone would be pretty hard pressed to find this happening in real life.

FoxNews is making people think so though..then people hear that and get "panicked" or irate...and then there's blowback and then the blowback to the blowback...and still only a very miniscule portion of society. And so it goes.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: intrepid

you ever see the old portraits or statues of santa claus? many of them show him with red poka dotted mushrooms surrounding him.

"Santa is a modern counterpart of a shaman, who consumed mind-altering plants and fungi to commune with the spirit world," said John Rush, an anthropologist and instructor at Sierra College in Rocklin, Calif.

According to the theory, the legend of Santa derives from shamans in the Siberian and Arctic regions who dropped into locals' teepeelike homes with a bag full of hallucinatory mushrooms as presents in late December, Rush said.

www.livescience.com...

a tradition that is probably older than the christian religion....

Yes. So is ritual sacrifice. Doesn't make it legal.

a reply to: intrepid
so, it's illegal....
it's illegal to deny the best course of care for a patient..
it's illegal to not include birth control in the health insurance policies that you provide your employees...
but there's ways around the illegality part obviously....

really, I would rather that the native american have his job preserved along with his right to participate in his native american peyote ritual, but well they didn't buy that one either....
only the christians, it seems, are special enough to get exemptions so they can break laws....

and, it's not a ritual sacrifice.....any more than that the peyote ritual is.. it's a tool used to journey into other realms.

a reply to: dawnstar

Christmas to abortion, birth control, and women's rights. Project that agenda!

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Reflection

It is in the constitution. The first ammendment. And the Supreme Court ruled that such things are a violation of the establishment clause.

The separation of church and state is there to protect everyone including Christians. If you are that passionate about religion being practiced at school then send your kids to a private school. I don't get what is so difficult to understand here.

Again, if it was some other religion being displayed you guys would throw a fit about it. The double standard is ridiculous.

I'm an atheist. The thing is, I fear the state more than any religion.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

There is more to the clause, namely, congress cannot prohibit the free exercise of religion. So I suppose that you might have to show how a nativity scene in a school christmas play constitutes respecting an establishment of religion, as opposed to the free exercise of religion.

So then I suppose you support my position.
Abolishing Christmas altogether.

I am a Christian and want to abolish Christmas,
see my posts in the early part of the thread.

Are we kindred spirits?

For vastly different reasons, but it seems
we both want to abolish Christmas.

We can unite on this one.

a reply to: intrepid
We are not talking about ritualistic sacrifice. That analogy is just as absurd as being offended by a play, Christmas Tree or someone say Happy Holidays. It is this divide that rips this once great nation apart. Instead of appreciating and trying to understand your fellow man and woman, an agenda to force your views takes place. It seems like people are intolerant of the things that really mean nothing in the grand scheme of life, and they just accept things that they should actually take a stand against. I grew up in a very diverse neighborhood and in school they tough a World Religions class. It helped us all understand one another, not create a division. All intolerance breeds is hatred. Look at ISIL, that is a perfect example of intolerance breeding hate and pushing an agenda.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: AbbaCabba
I have read all of the replies as well as the OP. I honestly feel that everyone complaining about Christmas are also the same people that complain about anything that does not align with your overall beliefs. Stop trying to strip America of its history and traditions. 50 years ago nobody cared or complained about the display of a nativity scene or a Christmas Tree. If people are not physically hurting someone or forcing you to participate then leave them alone. If more people stood together instead of dividing, our society would be so much stronger and civil.

Relatively speaking, only a very teeny tiny miniscule part of the population is complaining now or trying to strip rights. I bet anyone would be pretty hard pressed to find this happening in real life.

FoxNews is making people think so though..then people hear that and get "panicked" or irate...and then there's blowback and then the blowback to the blowback...and still only a very miniscule portion of society. And so it goes.

but we are at a point where a very small portion of the people dictate how are lives are gonna be. big changes have already been made to suit small percentages yet those changes effect everyone. that is what is happening here. may seem like no big deal but that small percentage only has to hit a few legal notes to have their way with all of us.

a reply to: dawnstar

You are barking up the wrong tree and introducing an argument that doesn't apply. The SCOTUS also upheld the 1st rights to Natives that practice peyotism.

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the use, possession, or transportation of peyote by an Indian for bona fide traditional ceremonial purposes in connection with the practice of a traditional Indian religion is lawful, and shall not be prohibited by the United States or any State. No Indian shall be penalized or discriminated against on the basis of such use, possession or transportation, including, but not limited to, denial of otherwise applicable benefits under public assistance programs.

en.wikipedia.org...

Can we get back to the topic now?

a reply to: dawnstar

Instead of fighting over weather or not nativity scenes should be in our public schools, why not just open a park up and let as many groups, religious or non-religious, have a section of it to decorate it portraying how that groups celebrates the winter solstice? this would be interesting and educational. but instead, it seems we are bent on removing cultures and settling for the mudane blah in life.

now I am wondering if I could claim religious freedom if I bring a bunch of mushrooms to this imaginary park to hand out???

I whole heartedly agree. Secular interpretations of religious traditions and holidays are as awful as they sound. It's nice to have the option to observe religious traditions whether we like them or not, without the need to dilute them to some arbitrary standard of "inclusion". There is nothing harmful about learning about other cultures and religions, unless, of course, one is so incredulous as to be coerced by them. I've never felt coerced nor indoctrinated at any moment of my life that I've been in a place of worship or beneath the gaze of some religious symbol.

a reply to: AbbaCabba

I was trying to say the same thing, I just think that Christmas is for kids to have fun. The rest is dogma and politics, and sad.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: Krazysh0t

It's simple. Christmas is Jesus' birthday whether you believe in him or not.

Actually it's the Roman festival of Saturnalia that was incorporated into Christianity.

Christmas dinner is the best gift; good food, good booze, and good company.

Agnostic says, "Damn right."

See just rename it what is is for you

Gluttony day
or Obesity Encouragement Day

That would actually describe what you are doing
and it would be religion neutral.

However, I suggest

Corporate Greed Day