The Fox News 'War On Christmas' Panic Is Already Starting

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You clearly don't know how our Constitution works.

We have been over this.
It is just interpretation and a few bad apples are crying their way into minority change for the majority.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease

millions are being forced into accepting things they do not want by a very small group.

RAPE

a reply to: deadeyedick

The "war on Christmas" is an invention by Fox News. The fact that you can't see that just shows your desire to paint atheists as a bunch of evil people trying to steal your religion.

War on Christmas

It's little known, even among those who promote this idea, that its modern day-form started out as a conspiracy theory promulgated by groups affiliated with the John Birch Society.[2] In 1959, they released a pamphlet called "There Goes Christmas," in which they claimed that there was a new communist plot to "take the Christ out of Christmas" by replacing Christmas decorations with United Nations iconography. The Society claimed this was part of a larger push to stamp out religion altogether and cede US sovereignty to the UN. They urged their members to boycott any stores with "inappropriate decorations."[3]

The JBS itself had developed the idea of a War on Christmas from inter-war anti-Semitic publications, particularly from Henry Ford's The International Jew. As part of a supposed move to take over the world it claimed that Jews were launching a "war on Christianity," with one paper lamenting, "Last Christmas most people had a hard time finding Christmas cards that indicated in any way that Christmas commemorated Someone's Birth." This was (of course) seen as a plot by Jewish conspirators who "consider any public expression of Christian character as being derogatory to [their] religion."[4] Sound familiar?

The "War on Christmas" meme was revived in the '90s by paleoconservative, VDARE founder, racist, anti-Semite, and all-around wingnut Peter Brimelow, as part of a larger battle against multiculturalism.[5]

But no individual is more responsible for dragging the concept from the right-wing fringe into "mainstream" media culture, and making it an annual tradition as reliable and inevitable as the holiday season itself, than Bill O'Reilly, who is apparently horrified — yes, horrified! — that Wal-Mart greeters might wish that shoppers enjoy "Happy Holidays" — despite the fact that his own website sold "holiday ornaments" rather than X-Mas ornaments.[6] Did anyone mention hypocrisy?

The fact that "Happy Holidays" refers to over a dozen holidays (see below) never seems to have any real effect on the demagoguery; neither does the idea that Christmas itself was first made by blatantly ripping off a pagan holiday (let's hear it for the War on Yule!) or that puritanical types have made a few wars against Christmas themselves (see below). So, the Religious Right keeps yammering about it and secularists keep making jokes about going along with it.[7] As the years go by, the semi-ironic "Merry Christmas" greeting is gaining ground. People who might be non-religious or secular made wingnuts take pains to wish others a Merry Christmas, at least on the day itself.

Despite the best efforts of the sinister anti-Christmas warriors, the proportion of American Christians who feel a religious meaning in Christmas is increasing,[8] though religious belief is generally declining in the US. This suggests the unstated premise that the meaning of Christmas rests upon people using the word to sell merchandise is not correct.

This controversy is VERY old.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Separation of Church and State isn't a specific interpretation of the Constitution. It is a primary tenant of it and represented in the First Amendment. Your revisionist history notwithstanding.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

I have to laugh with you. I have no faith in religions. None of them, yet I respect those that are devoted to their religion, and I will gladly celebrate with them as a non-believer, and dine with them, because they are my friends and co-workers

I do not take offense when they in good nature or even out of genuine concern, because of the strength of their beliefs, offer to help me understand, so they can save my soul.

I believe anyone that is firm in their belief, and has true faith in their God, does not fear what others believe or worship. I have no hate or animosity in my heart for the atheist or people of any religion, even if they worship Satan. They have the right to believe and worship as they choose, as long as they allow me the same courtesy of choice.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: deadeyedick

Separation of Church and State isn't a specific interpretation of the Constitution. It is a primary tenant of it and represented in the First Amendment. Your revisionist history notwithstanding.

The word is tenet, not tenant. Christmas is for kids, it always has been for kids and it always should be for kids. Let them have some frickin joy in their lives for heaven's sake.

I am an atheist, but if that means that I take away the wonderful time kids can spend with their families just because some gripy mofos want to follow the letter of the law then guess what?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

agreeing on the definition of separation of church and state by everyone would be a good place to start

my view is that your definition is not the same as the founders and you like to throw the phrase around because it means one thing but can be made to believe something else.

if it fits the agenda of destruction of the traditional family and the values we have held onto since the foundation then by all means you will let that phrase mean whatever you want it to.

when I say you I am referring to everyone who does not think exactly like me

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

If you fear the state then you should absolutely be in favor of the separation between church and state. A nativity scene may not seem like a threat, but if you give an inch they take a mile. Why is it so hard for people to practice these things on private property?

a reply to: Reflection

Why is it so hard for people to practice these things on private property?

you said it yourself in the post "give an inch"

once it is outlawed in certain places then it will just continue until there is nothing left.

that is how the war works

a reply to: Reflection

If you fear the state then you should absolutely be in favor of the separation between church and state. A nativity scene may not seem like a threat, but if you give an inch they take a mile. Why is it so hard for people to practice these things on private property?

Come on. The Christian church hasn't created anything new in hundreds of years. They haven't been relevant as anything more than a reactionary force. The power of the state, on the other hand, is growing.

I am in favor of separation between church and state, I just do not think the state should be used to silence religious practices by religious people.

People were afraid of the scary Jesus rock that had words on it making them go to a Jesus church. Now people are afraid of a Jesus play or a Jesus scene on a lawn. That might make them go to church too. Watch out! Those Nativity scenes and 10 Commandments will force you to obey Jesus! Or Moses! It'll be some guy with a beard!
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I am in favor of separation between church and state, I just do not think the state should be used to silence religious practices by religious people.

It isn't being used to do that. Religious imagery can't be in publicly owned buildings. It's just that simple.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Krazysh0t

agreeing on the definition of separation of church and state by everyone would be a good place to start

my view is that your definition is not the same as the founders and you like to throw the phrase around because it means one thing but can be made to believe something else.

Well your view is wrong. I got my definition STRAIGHT from Thomas Jefferson.

if it fits the agenda of destruction of the traditional family and the values we have held onto since the foundation then by all means you will let that phrase mean whatever you want it to.

when I say you I am referring to everyone who does not think exactly like me

*eyeroll* Traditional family values? Psh. Dragging out that tired and beaten horse huh? No one is attacking your "traditional family values". They are just trying to get a nativity scene removed from a publicly owned building. You have every right to continue to display a nativity scene on your own property though.

originally posted by: Jonjonj

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: deadeyedick

Separation of Church and State isn't a specific interpretation of the Constitution. It is a primary tenant of it and represented in the First Amendment. Your revisionist history notwithstanding.

The word is tenet, not tenant. Christmas is for kids, it always has been for kids and it always should be for kids. Let them have some frickin joy in their lives for heaven's sake.

I am an atheist, but if that means that I take away the wonderful time kids can spend with their families just because some gripy mofos want to follow the letter of the law then guess what?

Thanks grammar nazi. I'll keep that in mind. By the way, you can celebrate christmas without the nativity scene. I've celebrated many a christmas without needing one.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: buster2010

Kind of like your whining on page one about stores and presumably their displays and music and how it's forced upon you?

Not getting their way? Wow.

It's nice to see the motto deny ignorance has been thrown out the window in this thread. People are being bombarded seeing how stores start putting up Christmas decorations over a month before Christmas. And the not getting their way people are the ones complaining because their nativity scene isn't welcome at a public school. It really helps to read a thread before commenting.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Hey if you are gonna act like an ass being pernickety about details then details it is, right?

It's a WAR I tell ya, a WAR! Better suit up in your armor and prepare for battle! People out there want to destroy YOUR Christmas!

*eye roll*

Who cares if a store clerk says, "Happy Holidays" -- maybe he doesn't know you are a fundamental Christian? Isn't it a bit presumptuous to assume everyone celebrates the Christian winter solstice holiday?

Say "Merry Christmas" to anyone you want to. Put a baby Jesus in your front yard. I don't care....but in the public sphere, it's just common sense to keep things pretty neutral as we're a diverse country.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: buster2010

Kind of like your whining on page one about stores and presumably their displays and music and how it's forced upon you?

Not getting their way? Wow.

People are being bombarded seeing how stores start putting up Christmas decorations over a month before Christmas.

I hear that the mail order grocery business is becoming more prominent. If people don't want to be bombarded with things others have no problem with, I suggest they look into online shopping. No one is forcing songs and decorations on anyone.

Last I also checked, those businesses aren't government owned and can do whatever they want.

Constitution and all... blah blah.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I am in favor of separation between church and state, I just do not think the state should be used to silence religious practices by religious people.

Then you wouldn't mind if another monument sat beside all those ten commandment monuments that had something like this on it:

Counsel of the Wise Ones by Adriana Porter

Bide the Wiccan laws ye must, in perfect love and perfect trust.
Live and let live, fairly take and fairly give.
Cast the Circle thrice about to keep all evil spirits out.
To bind the spell every time, let the spell be spake in rhyme.
Soft of eye and light of touch speak ye little, listen much.
Deosil go by the waxing Moon, sing and dance the Wiccan Rune.
Widdershins go when the Moon doth wane, and the werewolf howls by the dread wolfsbane.
When the Lady's Moon is new, kiss the hand to Her times two.
When the Moon rides at Her peak, then your heart's desire seek.
Heed the North wind's mighty gale, lock the door and drop the sail.
When the wind comes from the South, love will kiss thee on the mouth.
When the wind blows from the East, expect the new and set the feast.
When the West wind blows o'er thee, departed spirits restless be.
Nine woods 'neath the Cauldron go, burn them quick and burn them slow.
Elder be ye Lady's tree burn it not or cursed ye'll be.
When the Wheel begins to turn, let the Beltane fires burn.
When the Wheel has turned a Yule, light the Log and let Pan rule.
Heed ye flower, bush and tree, by the Lady blessed be.
Where the rippling waters go, cast a stone and truth ye'll know.
When ye are in dire need, hearken not to others' greed.
With the fool no season spend, or be counted as his friend.
Merry meet and merry part bright the cheeks and warm the heart.
When misfortune is enow, wear the blue star on thy brow.
True in love ever be, unless thy lover's false to thee.
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill, an ye harm none, do what ye will.

blessedbe.sugarbane.com...

or something similar from the hindu faith that gave spiritual advice on how to live you life? or maybe both, or even more!!! wonder how many monuments you could place around a courthouse and still get into the front door? Either all religions have to have the same opportunities extended to them by the gov't or none should have it.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Actually there are some Christians that don't celebrate Christmas at all. JW's come to mind.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You have every right to continue to display a nativity scene on your own property though.

bs
over and over you miss the point

sure right now I have that right but it will go just as easy as the rest if no one stands up.

just because one owns or rents does not give them the right to do whateva

hoa and other orgs will come in and remove most peoples right

so then what the hell are we really left with after bowing to the whim of the crybabies

after all there can be no law made to protect the right to nativity in ones yard directly