22 injured in stabbing rampage at Pa. high school

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: onequestion

So, if someone was armed, perhaps even a student, this would have been ended before he was able to stab so many.

Am I missing something?

I think your absolutely right. And because of that I think onequestion is right. We have a cultural problem.

I should state, so as not to be misunderstood, that I disapprove of crazy idiots stabbing people if that wasn't clear.

By framing this and other incidents of violence as a cultural problem suggests that our culture is responsible. This is not true, the assailant is responsible, not society.

This is not the incident I would use to describe our cultural problem. Its every incident before it that made us believe that being scared to death of one another (armed citizens) is the amswer. We had this cultural problem from the beginning of civilizations.

The means to protect ourselves IS a reasonable request... because we have a cultural problem.

originally posted by: Informer1958
Well there goes the silverware.

I guess Congress will be banning all knives in the USA, whats next's forks to?

And Sporks (you know, spoon-forks they have in school lunchrooms.) Because, you know... pointy.

Seriously tho, I have to agree with the OP. I had not heard about the knifing attack. But if 22 people had been shot, with 4 in serious condition, you better believe THAT news would have been broadcast into every living room via whichever news channel they watch.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

I would argue that armed citizens are far less scared to death of one another than unarmed citizens.

More importantly though, I believe that shifting the fear away from potential victims and squarely onto criminals is the answer.

Violent criminals should rightly fear their immediate demise at all times.

a reply to: dreamingawake

Same old story of someone making a misleading thread?

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: greencmp

That statement is a two way street, and it is not fact.

I think we both have some middle ground.

What ifs isn't that ground though.
If you want to say a gun would have stopped this there is the exact same chance a gun would have made it worse.

I don't mind you owning a gun, far from it. I am just tired of reading about how these people with guns that they got from people that were negligent or able to slip through the cracks and kill innocent people.
Nothing in the second about that.

But, it is the particulars of this hypothetical that are of utmost importance.

If the assailant was armed with a more effective weapon and no one else was, that would be bad. Whereas, if the criminal and the victims were all armed with effective weapons, that would be good, no?

The second amendment, thankfully, states only that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Just as the first amendment has no qualifications, neither does the second because these rights are ubiquitous and universal. They are a matter of principal rather than one of contestable justification.

It just so happens that the right to bear arms coincides with the right to defend oneself and one's property though, you are correct that it makes no statement on the subject.

a reply to: greencmp

It is still a hypothetical, we have no idea what could or would of happened. All we know is what did happen.

So for every good outcome of your hypothetical there is the same exact chance of it going bad.

I think both sides do lots of interpreting of the second.
Shoot even when it was written all people could not have weapons.
And if we really want to go black and white, we can't take guns from anyone as it would be an infringement.

That would include the violent and the insane no?

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: greencmp

It is still a hypothetical, we have no idea what could or would of happened. All we know is what did happen.

So for every good outcome of your hypothetical there is the same exact chance of it going bad.

I think both sides do lots of interpreting of the second.
Shoot even when it was written all people could not have weapons.
And if we really want to go black and white, we can't take guns from anyone as it would be an infringement.

That would include the violent and the insane no?

Well, in this hypothetical, if nobody chose to be prepared to defend themselves and others, that would be the only bad outcome and it would be directly influenced by the failure to prepare.

Unless you are suggesting that it would become a berserker shoot fest where everybody started shooting everybody else which I refuse to take as a serious possibility.

Yes, because there are no qualifications and because the principal is so utterly indispensable to a free society, I am wholly against regulatory oversight of self defense. Otherwise, we're going to have to drag every black belt into the station for a psych eval and amputate their limbs if the arbitrary decision of the clerk deems it so necessary.

a reply to: greencmp

So trying to equate this discussion to someone's martial arts, which teaches much MUCH more then self defense, isn't ridiculous but the idea that not everyone would be cool calm and collect when shots are firing is?


Not saying it would be a berserker shot fest where everyone kill everyone, just think people with out some serious training would either just freeze or possibly get some decisions wrong.

We can agree to disagree at this point as we are just kinda trailing off here.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: greencmp

So trying to equate this discussion to someone's martial arts, which teaches much MUCH more then self defense, isn't ridiculous but the idea that not everyone would be cool calm and collect when shots are firing is?


Not saying it would be a berserker shot fest where everyone kill everyone, just think people with out some serious training would either just freeze or possibly get some decisions wrong.

We can agree to disagree at this point as we are just kinda trailing off here.

Fair enough, the recent example of the foolish woman who decided to use lethal force against a fleeing thief without situational awareness supports your point.

I accept that unlikely but possible eventuality as part of my principled position. I also accept that indiscriminate return fire is nearly as dangerous as directed malicious fire.

The obvious solution here is we need to make more knives, cause we all know:

"The only thing to stop a bad guy with a knife is a good guy with a knife"

Seriously, I agree with you, onequestion. We’ve spawned a sick society. A sick world, for that matter. My only concern is it may be too late now to turn back. People are great at rationalizing ANY and EVERY thing they do. And no amount of logic or reasoning will change the mind of some maniac who’s convinced his/her mindless behavior is indeed justified.

I wonder sometimes why it is the world seems to be getting crazier and crazier. And although nothing surprises me anymore, I’m still shocked at times when I read/hear some of the outrageous, convoluted, delusional garbage spewing out of the mouths of our so-called “leaders”. It’s downright insanity at the highest levels.

All I can come up with is that the world is becoming a more and more complicated place, and it’s doing it faster and faster. There was a time when things probably weren’t so different then than it was 100 years before that. Then, with industrialization and technology, change began to pickup it’s pace a little so that the gap began to close. Maybe noticeable change occurred each 50 years. Then 25 years, and then 15 years... Now it seems things can change significantly over a 5 year period. As Humans we’re having to process more and more information at an alarming rate. This, in turn, is making us increasingly neurotic. So much so that it’s actually effecting our genetic makeup, and we’re passing along these defective genes to each new generation. Blah, blah, blah...

And now here we are. A bunch of paranoid, schitzophrenic, sociopathic, psychotic lunatics hearing voices that aren’t really there.

Just my 2 cents. Take it with a grain of salt...

originally posted by: onequestion
Banning inanimate objects won't fix our problems.

Perhaps, but we still don't let our young children (mentally/emotionally challenged) play with knives until they are sufficiently mature.
We might not ever see that cure/maturity, but there was less chance of them harming themselves or others.
Of course you cannot outlaw all tools, then control/reach your children! Learn how to Love and LOVE them, then, perhaps, they will not be as broken as we were, one generation at a time... It spreads like a wave.
That is the only 'answer' that works, the one from within!
With Love, one finds 'ethics'!

True, unconditional Love is ALWAYS recognized by It's unconditional Virtues; Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, Gratitude, Humility, Charity (charity is never taking more than your share of anything, ever!), Honesty, Happiness, Faith...
ALWAYS!

Love does not go on 'rampages'.

These children as what we produced, with our insanity and ego!
They are the implosion of the Loveless life as we have known it!
Frankly, good riddance.

If someone would have stopped it with a gun after only 3 people were injured,
Then someone would be saying that it was uncalled for and that someone with a knife couldn't possibly stab over a dozen people with a knife. ....or something to that affect.

Ban trees!
You can totally kill someone with a heavy stick.
Rocks, too, while we are at it.
Cut off every one's hand's, too.
Those things can be used for choking and beating.

I see what's gone wrong here. Problem is, knives are too readily available. There should be a global knife ban. Owners of knives should be designated terrorists. Anyone who wants to prepare a meal should apply to the NWO for a one use licence to use a knife. Anyone caught using a knife without a licence should spend the rest of their lives behind bars.

Y'know, for the kids.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: dreamingawake

Same old story of someone making a misleading thread?

Nope

originally posted by: onequestion

Apparently this isn't news because guns weren't involved. Who cares if doesnt fit my agenda.

Once again it is mental issues... I'm waiting for the 40 people killed with a truck scenario and it doesn't make the news either...

originally posted by: new_here

And Sporks (you know, spoon-forks they have in school lunchrooms.) Because, you know... pointy.

Seriously tho, I have to agree with the OP. I had not heard about the knifing attack. But if 22 people had been shot, with 4 in serious condition, you better believe THAT news would have been broadcast into every living room via whichever news channel they watch.

Or 20 people can be killed over a weekend in Chicago or 10 other cities with big issues, but it would be by 8 to 10 people so doesn't count either...

Still say we should all have chips installed in our brains

a reply to: TsukiLunar

You first.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: onequestion

So, if someone was armed, perhaps even a student, this would have been ended before he was able to stab so many.

Am I missing something?

This isn't the Wild West.
Just because someone can be armed doesn't mean they will be responsible with that right. Remember the old retired cop who shot a guy for talking to his babysitter during movie previews? Or this last week the person that whipped out their piece and started firing at a Home Depot suspected shoplifter?
We don't need any more John Waynes or Rambos.

Or 11 year olds who grab a shotgun when they can't see the neighbor's puppy.

originally posted by: netbound
The obvious solution here is we need to make more knives, cause we all know:

"The only thing to stop a bad guy with a knife is a good guy with a knife"

Seriously, I agree with you, onequestion. We’ve spawned a sick society. A sick world, for that matter. My only concern is it may be too late now to turn back. People are great at rationalizing ANY and EVERY thing they do. And no amount of logic or reasoning will change the mind of some maniac who’s convinced his/her mindless behavior is indeed justified.

I wonder sometimes why it is the world seems to be getting crazier and crazier. And although nothing surprises me anymore, I’m still shocked at times when I read/hear some of the outrageous, convoluted, delusional garbage spewing out of the mouths of our so-called “leaders”. It’s downright insanity at the highest levels.

All I can come up with is that the world is becoming a more and more complicated place, and it’s doing it faster and faster. There was a time when things probably weren’t so different then than it was 100 years before that. Then, with industrialization and technology, change began to pickup it’s pace a little so that the gap began to close. Maybe noticeable change occurred each 50 years. Then 25 years, and then 15 years... Now it seems things can change significantly over a 5 year period. As Humans we’re having to process more and more information at an alarming rate. This, in turn, is making us increasingly neurotic. So much so that it’s actually effecting our genetic makeup, and we’re passing along these defective genes to each new generation. Blah, blah, blah...

And now here we are. A bunch of paranoid, schitzophrenic, sociopathic, psychotic lunatics hearing voices that aren’t really there.

Just my 2 cents. Take it with a grain of salt...

Just have to say excellent post.
I quoted it so it would be repeated.

ETA: We have become far more efficient in killing people. The horrible fact is, people LOVE killing other people. Sick perversion in our dna. Left over from monkey hoohaw flailing, beating wildly. In the old days, they did it much sicker, but they still DID IT!. Skinning people, boiling them, stoning them...that's some sick #. And I didn't even scratch the surface of the really crazy stuff.