BBC's opinon of who Russia is targeting

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Fair enough, but;

As Lavrov said, if it walks like a terrorist, thinks like a terrorist and acts like a terrorist, then it's a terrorist, no?

Whoever they are targeting they are opposed to the Syrian Army and it's new friends. And yep, they are going to get blown away. I personally don't care what the media calls them - there are so many names for the different factions it is confusing as all hell anyway.

My problem is two fold. Not all terrorists are ISIS, they claim their strike hits ISIS for public image, when it doesn't. The other problem is that under your definition of terrorist the American Patriots who beat the British are terrorists, they aren't.

First part, fair enoiugh, second part that was hundreds of years ago. I can't change history and nor can you. Besides, the Patriots were fighting for an independent, free America and the end of slavery - not exactly something I would regard as a terrorist agenda.

I've said this many times before - the rebels in Syria are varied and some have come back to either join the Syrian army or fight alongside it. Putin's vision for the new postwar Syria involves several minority autonomous states and Assads leadership is by no means guaranteed. In fact Putin has openly said he may have to go after this all ends.

So, if you're a rebel and you agree, you talk to the coalition and join with them or you are in the way and get attacked.

ETA, most of the airstikes have been against Al Nusra. Who is Al Nusra?

The al-Nusra Front, or Jabhat al-Nusra (Arabic: جبهة النصرة لأهل الشام‎ Jabhat al-Nuṣrah li-Ahli ash-Shām, "The Support Front for the People of Al-Sham", often abbreviated to JN or JaN), sometimes called al-Qaeda in Syria or al-Qaeda in the Levant,[42] is a Sunni Islamic jihadist militia fighting against Syrian Government forces in the Syrian Civil War, with the aim of establishing an Islamist state in the country.[43] It is the Syrian branch of Al-Qaeda,[44] and also operates in neighbouring Lebanon.[45]

en.wikipedia.org...

Sounds like another brand of Isis to me....

originally posted by: markosity1973

First part, fair enoiugh, second part that was hundreds of years ago. I can't change history and nor can you. Besides, the Patriots were fighting for an independent, free America and the end of slavery - not exactly something I would regard as a terrorist agenda.

So you don't think there is anyone at all who is a Syrian fighting for a more free Syria?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I was waiting for that. Let's face it. This thread is about Syria and Russia and how the media in the western world lies about it. Not Ukraine.

originally posted by: Flint2011
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I was waiting for that. Let's face it. This thread is about Syria and Russia and how the media in the western world lies about it. Not Ukraine.

So we can't bring up the very people this thread supports are doing the very things they claim are bad, because this is a bash the west thread? Got it.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Your words and assumptions. Not mine. Ukraine has nothing to do with this subject and changes nothing with regard to the deceptions and lies in western media regarding Russia in Syria. It's just one aspect of many things. I try to stay on topic rather than drift off onto something else to detract from the subject matter at hand. Nothing about what I have posted is pro-Russian. Just honest regarding the subject of this thread.

originally posted by: Flint2011
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Your words and assumptions. Not mine. Ukraine has nothing to do with this subject and changes nothing with regard to the deceptions and lies in western media regarding Russia in Syria. It's just one aspect of many things. I try to stay on topic rather than drift off onto something else to detract from the subject matter at hand. Nothing about what I have posted is pro-Russian. Just honest regarding the subject of this thread.

Except it is on topic. Russia made a claim as to why their position is morally superior. A quick check shows Russia has recently done exactly what they claim is wrong. That means they are full of it, and giving PC responses to justify something they are doing because it's simply in their interest to do so.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Except that I can counter argue that the USA has no moral superiority either.

It toppled Saddam Hussein on the lie that he had WMD - which he did not. Then later it ransacked Libya and left it in a state of civil war with no leadership.

Ooh look, here come the underpants gnomes with the latest American foreign policy

There are over 1,000 opposition forces fighting in Syria from the die hard Isis and al nurse front to the more moderate free Syrian army, but even the moderates are being supported by western allies in the region Saudi and Qatar. You have to ask how moderate any group can be if they are being funded by Saudi Arabia. The other point is Assad invited Russia to help. He is still the leader like it or not and Syria is still a sovereign nation and can make its own decisions. So Russia will be fighting any of the groups opposed to Assad whether Islamist or moderate good terrorist or bad terrorist. Russia aren't making distinctions. They are all seen as terrorists.
www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And hence what the US and other Western Nations are doing via the media. The West and particular to my country the USA is no way on a moral high ground at all. And it has no right to be in or involved in Syria. Russia for all intents and purposes is legitimately in Syria. Every one involved has ulterior motives and no one is saying Russia is a great nation and that it is superior. Just that the fact is that the BBC an other western Media outlets are lying to viewers. It's straight deception and propaganda. You expect that from Russia. But from western media that is simply unacceptable.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Except that I can counter argue that the USA has no moral superiority either.

Difference being I never claimed they did. I stayed on topic, with Russia, you are now off topic with the USA ... except it's only acceptable to bash the West I suppose.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: markosity1973

BBC said the attacks are mostly against rebel groups not ISIS. The map supports that. Where is the confusion?

What he is saying is if you look at the map it makes sense what Russia are doing.

The bombs are concentrated on were this currently a ground offensive.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

LOOK it matters not what Russia has or has not done supporting the people who live in Ukraine if anything this highlights that what you have heard about Ukraine is most likely lies it is absolutely shocking that the likes of BBC and other msm havE been lying intire existence and people like you believe it even after Iraq's weapons of mass destruction but thankfully now we live in a world information is very hard to suppress hence the now launch information war witch like it or not you are solider but in this case tis just desperation Russia has every man and his dog cheering them on and Putin is no fool he knows the world is watching

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: markosity1973

BBC said the attacks are mostly against rebel groups not ISIS. The map supports that. Where is the confusion?

What he is saying is if you look at the map it makes sense what Russia are doing.

The bombs are concentrated on were this currently a ground offensive.

I agree. It makes sense for the Russian objective. I am merely pointing out Russian lies. They attack Rebel, not ISIS targets, then claim they hit ISIS.

a reply to: RyleeNator

Hope you are at least getting paid to spread lies and propaganda. Everyone and their dog, and their 2 year old knows what Russia did in Ukraine. It's not a coincidence that as soon as Russia gets involved with Syria that the Ukraine rebels stop fighting (no more Russian support).

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: markosity1973

BBC said the attacks are mostly against rebel groups not ISIS. The map supports that. Where is the confusion?

What he is saying is if you look at the map it makes sense what Russia are doing.

The bombs are concentrated on were this currently a ground offensive.

I agree. It makes sense for the Russian objective. I am merely pointing out Russian lies. They attack Rebel, not ISIS targets, then claim they hit ISIS.

Seems they have hit both.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

WHAT LIES am I spreading ?? Alot of people who dislike Putin but merely going on msm fully support Russia actions let's not forget one of the US generals said there where only four or five western train rebels operating in Syria and if you must go back to Ukraine to distract from the situation in hand well your clutching at straws USA are war criminal s bombing hospitals tut tut tut people are waking up Russia don't need paid shills but sure what's your rate I'll shill for the USA if the price is right won't make the sligthest bit of difference that's actually a joke by the way money not change my opion

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: RyleeNator

Hope you are at least getting paid to spread lies and propaganda. Everyone and their dog, and their 2 year old knows what Russia did in Ukraine. It's not a coincidence that as soon as Russia gets involved with Syria that the Ukraine rebels stop fighting (no more Russian support).

Thing is, everyone that even slightly has an ear to the ground knows exactly what the US and Russia are doing in Syria.

As far as my personal opinion in Syria is that Russia is legitimately there doing what allies do, protect the leadership against outside influences. This includes ALL factions that are currently fighting against Assad and the Syrian Army. From Russia's viewpoint it really doesn't matter what "brand" of terrorist gets blown up in the process, even if it is ones that are backed by the US. Since in the case of Syria, Russia is legitimately there, this gives them a distinct political advantage on the world stage as well as an arm twisting advantage over the US because it makes people question why the hell the US is there to begin with and, especially if Russia is effective the other question being why the US has so much trouble regime changing, with a recent track record of leaving disasters all over the Middle East with the most awesome #GD military/intelligence force the world has ever seen. If Russia can take care of business in Syria and leave it stable in 2-3 years, that is a much better track record than the US. I take a wait and see approach. I also await something stupid happening like either a Russian or a "Coalition" aircraft getting shot down and the propaganda wars REALLY ramp up leaving people who are interested the chore to sift harder for common sense truths.

This isn't a "bash America" post because I am a card carrying 11 Bang Bang Veteran who definitely lives this country but I really do not like the way the US does foreign policy. We have enough problems at home yet here we are, tear assing around the world with Ukraine and Syria and the Pivot to China or whatever. I got a suggestion. When someone other than drug cartels start to invade Mexico or even Canada, then wake me up. But to sit here and watch just not too long ago, one of our senators, John McCain flew over to get his photo op with the supposed FSA leaders, I knew something was up. Those were the days when ISIS was just another 2 bit terrorist organization, which even our own POTUS stated was Junior Varsity suddenly became a household name makes one wonder what the hell is going on. I have my own pet theory that Senator John McCain was the big money money man there to spread good cheer among some pretty dicey characters. Now you see all sorts of bad men riding around in almost brand new Toyotas and sporting some pretty sophisticated armament. Not bad for an entity that just 2 years ago wasn't even a household name.

Now Russia is there to blow up anything and everything that is not friendly to the Assad leadership and forces, If a few US backed rebels get blown up then it sucks to be them. It sucks to watch tax dollars get blown up and "foreign Aid" get used for everything but aiding the people, but there ya go. Why exactly is the US there to begin with again?

Just have to wait and see what Russia does over time and sift through the propaganda for common sense truths.

originally posted by: markosity1973
How stupid are these reporters? I mean really? There is no way to win this war from the air. I think the evidence of that is clear - ISIS has only expanded since the US bombinng campaign began. So, you gets yourself an army, you start from your territory and you advance it with air support through enemy territory until you have defeated them. I mean D'uhh BBC!

DUH!!!! back at you. Iran and Iraq are siding with Russia which means the Russians have open access DIRECTLY to ISIS without having to confront the anti Assad rebels in Syria. Any genuine attempt to rid the area of ISIS would utilise every anti ISIS group by not attacking them DUH!! that way ISIS would be contained by that group whilst you approach ISIS directly from land you have free invited access to. DUH!!

You are inventing reasons to justify what is blindingly obvious. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.

Obama Administration Halts Program to Train Syrians to Combat ISIS

originally posted by: Flint2011
Obama Administration Halts Program to Train Syrians to Combat ISIS

Thought that would happen.

USA lost it games of terrorists so will withdraw as there not a lot else they can do.

Syria will be Putins problem now.