Sign of the Son of Man

a reply to: JackReyes

Okay, interesting. A lot of Christians argue that Jesus was NOT a created being, so he couldn't have been the Angel of the Lord. Philo thought that the Angel of the Lord was the same being as Plato's Logos, and the Logos is in John's Gospel.

What's confusing to me though, is that in Zachariah 3, it's the Angel of the Lord that takes away the "sins of the land", when Joshua does something.......?

9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

a reply to: JackReyes

These type of threads are the reason people are leaving ATS.

Stupid people starting stupid threads which say nothing except 'I LOVE my god and so should you'. There is no conspiracy.

All they do is clog up recent posts.

I thought this sites motto is to deny ignorance but all I see is religious nutters doing the exact opposite.

SkepticOverord you need to clean this site up, or it will become one big god love fest more than it already is. These people are the reason this site has gone downhill and all the interesting posters have left leaving no threads worth looking at.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: JackReyes

Okay, interesting. A lot of Christians argue that Jesus was NOT a created being, so he couldn't have been the Angel of the Lord. Philo thought that the Angel of the Lord was the same being as Plato's Logos, and the Logos is in John's Gospel.

What's confusing to me though, is that in Zachariah 3, it's the Angel of the Lord that takes away the "sins of the land", when Joshua does something.......?

9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

Zachariah 3:8 the previous verse gives you the clue as to who it was referring. The servant "Sprout." That is the offspring of king David:

(Jeremiah 23:5) “Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will raise up to David a righteous sprout. And a king will reign and show insight and uphold justice and righteousness in the land.

That the scripture is referring to Jesus Christ is no riddle any longer. He is the one that takes away the sin from the world:

(John 1:29) 29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and he said: “See, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

a reply to: JackReyes

(Jeremiah 23:5) “Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will raise up to David a righteous sprout. And a king will reign and show insight and uphold justice and righteousness in the land.

That the scripture is referring to Jesus Christ is no riddle any longer. He is the one that takes away the sin from the world:

"That day" never happened. Jesus didn't reign as king and justice and righteousness are few and far between. The iniquities/sins of the land have NOT been taken away. Christians are still waiting for that day.

So no. Jesus hasn't fulfilled that prophecy.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: JackReyes

(Jeremiah 23:5) “Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will raise up to David a righteous sprout. And a king will reign and show insight and uphold justice and righteousness in the land.

That the scripture is referring to Jesus Christ is no riddle any longer. He is the one that takes away the sin from the world:

"That day" never happened. Jesus didn't reign as king and justice and righteousness are few and far between. The iniquities/sins of the land have NOT been taken away. Christians are still waiting for that day.

So no. Jesus hasn't fulfilled that prophecy.

The fulfillment of the "Sprout" coming from Jesse's loins, the descendant of David who has the legal right to rule was fulfilled in Jesus. He did have to sit at his Father's right hand until Jehovah had placed his enemies as a stool for his feet:

(Psalm 110:1, 2) . . .Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”  Jehovah will extend the scepter of your power out of Zion, saying: “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”

So he did not begin to rule as king immediately upon his ascension to heaven. But he is now reigning as king, and the complete fulfillment of his conquest as king over earth and badness in the fullest sense is soon close to realization, that is hat the OP is dealing with. So while not the full prophecy has been fulfilled, parts of it have, and the OP shows you how the rest of it will be.

a reply to: JackReyes

Lots of people came from "Jesse's loins".

So he did not begin to rule as king immediately upon his ascension to heaven.

So the story goes, but the Hebrew prophecies had to do with the affairs of earth, and their Messiah was supposed to actually rule an earthly kingdom. That's the way the prophecy goes, regardless of Jesus' supposed pronouncement that his kingdom is not here on earth.

Christendom tries to shoe horn Jesus into the ancient Hebrew prophecies, but the fact is Jesus never was a king here on earth. That day has not arrived.

a reply to: windword

That is why the Jews rejected Jesus. Because they wanted an earthly king to throw off the yolk of the Romans. Of course we know Biblical prophecy shows that Jesus would have to sit at his Father's right hand until he had subjected his enemies beneath his feet, and then he would ride forth to go subduing his enemies.

Soon God's heavenly government in Jesus' hands, as king of kings and lord of lords will will indeed come and make God's will done upon earth as it is in heaven.

The OP shows you what will happen when that hour arrives.

originally posted by: JackReyes
a reply to: windword

That is why the Jews rejected Jesus. Because they wanted an earthly king to throw off the yolk of the Romans. Of course we know Biblical prophecy shows that Jesus would have to sit at his Father's right hand until he had subjected his enemies beneath his feet, and then he would ride forth to go subduing his enemies.

Soon God's heavenly government in Jesus' hands, as king of kings and lord of lords will will indeed come and make God's will done upon earth as it is in heaven.

The OP shows you what will happen when that hour arrives.

Kings, lords, rulers, governments, gods...as always it's about politicians and their overblown EGOS.

a reply to: yosako

No argument from me, they all have overblown egos.

Of course, when it comes to Jesus...nah, he never had one, in fact he always tried to downplay himself. And still does. Yet he is humanities hope.

Free will leads to an indeterminacy.

Religion in no way affects free will. Prophecy cannot exist as it denies free will. There's mathematical prediction that takes into account trends, values, etc. and can predict what'll happen with an almost 100% accuracy.

Entropy, however, will always prevent that 100%.

Classical mechanics, sure. I throw a ball at x velocity at y angle with z air resistance and the always present force of gravity and it'll end up at whatever position pertintent to the sum (of these variables).

And yet! And yet! If I threw the ball, what gave rise to the amount of force I chose to throw it with?

Follow The Ten Commandments. World Peace. *clap clap*

originally posted by: JackReyes

originally posted by: 3n19m470
a reply to: ParasuvO

So what are you saying? All of creation will come to an end? What will become of us then? No more universe? Come on now... surely you jest.

(Psalm 104:5) He has established the earth on its foundations; It will not be moved from its place forever and ever.

No. The earth, and thus the universe itself will never come to an end. No matter who much they want you to think billions of years matter, into the future. And thousands into the past do not.

Right because humanity's never seen the earth revolving.

originally posted by: JackReyes

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: JackReyes

They are one and the same windword. All angels are sons of God, and they are all spirits.

Okay, thank you. Do you think that Jesus was the "Angel of the Lord" of the Old Testament?

Joshua 5:13
And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?

15 And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy.

Or here

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

Yes indeed. It would be reasonable to conclude that that angel that Joshua saw was Jesus Christ. He himself said he was the chief angel of God's army. And Jesus has always been very fond of humans, and the outworking of God's purpose for mankind.

And yes, he was also the angel that was resisting Satan. In fact in Jude we are shown a feud between Jesus and Satan as well, over Moses' body. And Jehovah himself intervened and disappeared the body. It appears that Jesus did not want the body used as some sort of idol worship which Satan was trying to use it for (humans love to venerate idols, especially anything dead of a holy person).

Dude, that was Michael. THE BOOK OF JUDE SAYS SO.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: JackReyes

Okay, interesting. A lot of Christians argue that Jesus was NOT a created being, so he couldn't have been the Angel of the Lord.

Jesus was the first begotten of Father.This is why he subordinates himself to the Father, because His (Our) Father preceded him. Hence the "Alpha" of the Omega. This is also why the first will be last... When Jesus comes for the final coming, he will be the last, yet was also the first. The Apocryphon of John discusses the metaphysics of Christ's (spiritual) birth: Apocryphon of John

originally posted by: Blissful

originally posted by: JackReyes

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: JackReyes

They are one and the same windword. All angels are sons of God, and they are all spirits.

Okay, thank you. Do you think that Jesus was the "Angel of the Lord" of the Old Testament?

Joshua 5:13
And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?

15 And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy.

Or here

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

Yes indeed. It would be reasonable to conclude that that angel that Joshua saw was Jesus Christ. He himself said he was the chief angel of God's army. And Jesus has always been very fond of humans, and the outworking of God's purpose for mankind.

And yes, he was also the angel that was resisting Satan. In fact in Jude we are shown a feud between Jesus and Satan as well, over Moses' body. And Jehovah himself intervened and disappeared the body. It appears that Jesus did not want the body used as some sort of idol worship which Satan was trying to use it for (humans love to venerate idols, especially anything dead of a holy person).

Dude, that was Michael. THE BOOK OF JUDE SAYS SO.

So, who was the Angel of The Lord, who takes away sin, and takes away the iniquities of the land in one day?

originally posted by: JackReyes
Atheism is the worship of Satan.

Please don't try to speak for atheists. Would you like it if someone said Christianity is the worship of Satan?

Christians at least believe in Satan while atheists do not. Annoying.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: JackReyes

Okay, interesting. A lot of Christians argue that Jesus was NOT a created being, so he couldn't have been the Angel of the Lord.

Jesus was the first begotten of Father.This is why he subordinates himself to the Father, because His (Our) Father preceded him. Hence the "Alpha" of the Omega. This is also why the first will be last... When Jesus comes for the final coming, he will be the last, yet was also the first. The Apocryphon of John discusses the metaphysics of Christ's (spiritual) birth: Apocryphon of John

The way Jesus puts it, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." (John 8:58 KJV) What's with you people and idol worship?

a reply to: cooperton

I had no idea that he (Satan) created this world or that it was given to him.

That's Christian ideology. It isn't backed up by Jewish doctrine. All spirits were created on the 1st day, according to the Book of Jubilees, as it was found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Jubilees 2:2
For on the first day He created the heavens which are above and the earth and the waters and all the spirits which serve before him -the angels of the presence, and the angels of sanctification, and the angels [of the spirit of fire and the angels] of the spirit of the winds, and the angels of the spirit of the clouds, and of darkness, and of snow and of hail and of hoar frost, and the angels of the voices and of the thunder and of the lightning, and the angels of the spirits of cold and of heat, and of winter and of spring and of autumn and of summer and of all the spirits of his creatures which are in the heavens and on the earth, (He created) the abysses and the darkness, eventide , and the light, dawn and day, which He hath prepared in the knowledge of his heart.
www.pseudepigrapha.com...

ALL SPIRITS, according to Jewish tradition, were created on the 1st day. No "First Born" but Cain. Was Jesus Cain?

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: Blissful

originally posted by: JackReyes

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: JackReyes

They are one and the same windword. All angels are sons of God, and they are all spirits.

Okay, thank you. Do you think that Jesus was the "Angel of the Lord" of the Old Testament?

Joshua 5:13
And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?

15 And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy.

Or here

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

Yes indeed. It would be reasonable to conclude that that angel that Joshua saw was Jesus Christ. He himself said he was the chief angel of God's army. And Jesus has always been very fond of humans, and the outworking of God's purpose for mankind.

And yes, he was also the angel that was resisting Satan. In fact in Jude we are shown a feud between Jesus and Satan as well, over Moses' body. And Jehovah himself intervened and disappeared the body. It appears that Jesus did not want the body used as some sort of idol worship which Satan was trying to use it for (humans love to venerate idols, especially anything dead of a holy person).

Dude, that was Michael. THE BOOK OF JUDE SAYS SO.

So, who was the Angel of The Lord, who takes away sin, and takes away the iniquities of the land in one day?

I Am's the only thing that can take away sin.

a reply to: Blissful

Not according to the Bible.

originally posted by: JackReyes
Atheism is the worship of Satan.

How can someone be that stupid? Atheism is a belief in nothing. Satanism is the worship of Satan. Christianity is the worship of Santa Claus. Everyone knows that.