A Hypothetical Question to Ask Yourself..

a reply to: okrian

I can agree with you there, unequivocally. I will never argue that animals are incapable of pain or suffering.

I don't even like to harm bugs, unless absolutely necessary, but I do occasionally crave meat and I think I know why.
It's the vitamin b12 dilemma. In order to get the right amounts from a source other than vitamin tablet or capsule,I find meat or animal products like eggs and dairy to be optimal. Then of course there is nutritional yeast that according to this sight below you need about 1&1/2 Tablespoons of b12 fortified nutritional yeast per week

www.vegancoach.com...

Years ago I read a story about a woman who slowly over like twenty-thirty years gave up red meat then poultry then fish and dairy then somehow became a breatharian. There have been tests on plants that show they don't like to be harmed, but where does it end!

I honestly don't believe we are going to be judged harshly for finding in animal based foods a vital nutrient. I respect your OP and have great respect for vegetarians and vegans alike. Its the work involved of doing research to make sure you get the proper nutrients and a total change of mindset to take the vegan and vegetarian route. I think about it all the time. Thanks again for the thoughtful OP.

a reply to: calstorm

Good for you that you were raised around a lot of animals. Like I said, I grew up in a city and until only recently have i first hand witnessed farm animals roaming the land free and happy.

As far as what do I suggest for your celiac condition, that's an open ended question and one that I am not a professional in. However, one thing I can recommend maybe is eating more fish instead of the darker meats. Like I mentioned in a previous comment, I believe their are degrees of consciousness and intelligence and for whatever reason I can ethically eat a fish before a piece of steak.

Also, if you are thinking of going full blown vegetarian, there are a ton of gluten free options you can consider. (Brown) rice and beans is my go to meal and is a complete protein, not to mention gluten free and loaded with carbs to keep you full. I add an avocado and some lemon or olive oil and I'm set. I literally eat that for dinner every night and it hits the spot every time. Also, quinoa is a good grain that is nutritionally dens. Oatmeals another protein rich, gluten free option, and although people associate it with breakfast, can be a great lunch of dinner. You can have this for breakfast. For lunch, you can do a salad with a hemp protein shake for your protein needs.

Like I said, I know little about celiac disease but these are just some suggestions. best of luck to you.

a reply to: pfishy

I will say that it's pretty interesting the way that humans historically pick and choose which animals are viable for consumption (or make odd decisions like drinking cow's milk - in simplest form, merely the nutrient-rich liquid produced by a mother cow specifically fit to feed it's calf). Why not harvest human milk? At least that's made for humans (although adult humans shouldn't have that either, it's also specifically evolved to be right for human newborns).

We get upset in this country when we hear that dogs are killed, or cats. But they aren't really much different. Except that we consider them 'companions'. And obviously there are other parts of the world that don't have a 'dog eating' hangup like we do here. For the most part, it's likely due to these animals having faces that 'appear' similar to ours, which makes them feel a little bit too much like we are doing something wrong by killing them. And of course, we assign emotion to them that isn't there as well.

Although that said, it almost seems weirder that people eat octopus. I mean, they are just straight up alien looking.

originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: eluryh22

Why are you so seemingly willing to assume that people are only capable of a limited set of 'causes'?

The short answer is.... Because there are only so many hours in the day.

The longer answer is that I believe that throughout all of our lives and our experiences (and nature/nurture and all that) people tend to gravitate towards certain issues. There is nothing wrong with people using whatever time/money/energy they have left after making ends meet to focus on one (or a few) issues that they care about. We have billions of people on this planet and almost as many "issues." If everyone were to make a contribution to what they (specifically "they") care about, much can be done.
Note: I think that people do make a difference, little by little.

If I came up with a list of a hundred or more questions regarding "issues" I'm sure I could get almost everyone to say "Yes."

1) Should we do more for the homeless? YES

2) Should we do more for the unemployed that are desperately looking for work? YES

3) Should we do more for children in third world countries that don't have basic education and healthcare? YES

4) Should we do more to reduce the amount of harm we are causing to reefs? YES

5) Should we do more to rescue young people from the world of sex trafficking? YES

6) Should we do more to address cyber bullying? YES

7) Should we do more to prevent dog-fighting/cock-fighting/animal abuse/neglect? YES

8) Should we do more to make college tuition more affordable? YES

You see where I'm going with this. My point is that if everyone does a little bit to further "their cause" there could possibly be a net improvement. That being said, I have little regard for people who look at those who choose any one issue to focus on and say, "Eh, what about how we treat _______?" To me, it's a lame excuse/attack.

a reply to: okrian

Well, I've actually eaten all three of the animals you just mentioned. Not necessarily by choice, but it has happened. Survival is drastically different from being able to make a moral decision when it comes to food sources.
But I get your point. Though, cows don't show much of the 'affection' we get from dogs or cats. Those two species have generally been nurtured alongside humanity for millenia to foster the desirable qualities we associate with them presently. Whereas food stock has merely been domesticated to be easy to herd and handle.

a reply to: pfishy

I will wholeheartedly agree with this… "Survival is drastically different from being able to make a moral decision when it comes to food sources."

originally posted by: okrian
a reply to: pfishy


Although that said, it almost seems weirder that people eat octopus. I mean, they are just straight up alien looking.

What is up with the eating the tentacles still moving and sucking/sticking onto people's mouths? How is that fun or appetizing?
To each his/her own I guess but DAMN!!!

a reply to: peppycat

Ahh, the B12 dilemma. I knew someone would bring it up! Unfortunately, I have to wake up at 6 tomorrow and am too tired to debate this but this guy on YouTube can probably debate it much better than me. For whatever reason, it won't let me embed the video on my iPad so I'm just posting the link but nevertheless it's worth watching.

m.youtube.com...

magine, every time you eat a steak, a sausage, or a piece of chicken, that you personally had to look the creature in the eye

Allow me to add deer , bear , rabbit ,squirrel , (never opossum though), frogs ,rattlesnake , alligator and kangaroo . Thats the short list.

a reply to: eluryh22

I honestly couldn't tell you. I have never attempted to eat live octopus. Nor would I want to. I prefer my food to have already resigned from this world. I don't eat raw oysters, either. For basically the same reasons.

a reply to: Gothmog

Are you making an argument or compiling a menu of Cajun food? (Except for the kangaroo of course)

But, yes, opossum. You just have to prepare it properly.

originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: Gothmog

Are you making an argument or compiling a menu of Cajun food? (Except for the kangaroo of course)

No , just the food I have looked in the eye before eating.....forgot shark and others, but I did say that was the short list.

originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: Gothmog

Are you making an argument or compiling a menu of Cajun food? (Except for the kangaroo of course)

I just thought of a hypothetical CGI movie about a Kangaroo detective in New Orleans.

a reply to: eluryh22

Sell it to Adult Swim. You'll make 100k easy.

a reply to: Gothmog

I appreciate what you're saying. And I have looked many a meal in the eye. I don't lack respect for my meals. Just maybe the level of sympathy others have.

I am Floridian, so you better believe I love me some gator. I am a frequent consumer of the "Swamp Basket" at Hank's BBQ. Fried catfish, gator, and clam strips. Ohh yea. On another note.

Does anyone believe an alligator, lion, bear, shark, or python has ever had a moral dilemma before consuming the humans that they are still on record as doing every year around the world?? Because I do no think they ponder the rights and wrongs as they perform a death spin or mauling pieces of flesh off the people who scream in agony while they are being consumed alive. If they are sentient and self aware of pain, they know rather well what they are doing to people.

originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: Gothmog

I appreciate what you're saying. And I have looked many a meal in the eye. I don't lack respect for my meals. Just maybe the level of sympathy others have.

Like the old joke goes. A christian was being chased by a large , hungry , black bear. He ran away until he reached a cliff with no way out. He knelt as any christian would and started 23rd Psalms. Then he realized the bear had stopped. He turned around to hear the bear saying ,Father thank you for the blessing I am about to receive.

Peace

a reply to: Gothmog

Well, if my fate is to add to the ultimate evidence of what a bear does or doesn't do in the woods, then it is what it is. Apex predator or not, the worms always win.

a reply to: sekerofknowlege The video was excellent thank you. The soil was most likely much more alive years and years ago and we have no way of knowing the quality of soil in the past, sadly we know what it is like today. Lots to think about and research, I'll definitely be looking in to things.