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How the NRA Rewrote the Second Amendment

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posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Flatfish

Oh no they say it's ABSOLUTLY safe now so WE can believe them of course..www.nytimes.com...


Sometimes it's the method of application that needs to be regulated and that's what it sounds like they've figured out in Africa, a safer way to utilize DDT.

This is true for a lot of pesticides including the stuff my termite man sprayed under my house last year. I can't even buy the stuff he used, much less apply it without being properly trained and licensed.

All I'm saying is that some things do indeed need to be regulated, even in a free society.

According to the 2nd amendment, even state militias should be "well regulated."
edit on 6-10-2015 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: ~Lucidity


You use a leftist rag as a source of information about the 2nd amendment, and you're surprised when you're proven wrong?

really?

Why not try the brady campaign next time for your 2nd Amendment information, theyd be just as reliable as politico.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:15 PM
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It's pretty much summed up with "the right of the people to keep and bear arms"

It's not rocket science. It's not complicated. It's not even a matter of literacy.

The People of the United States ratified the Bill of Rights, and agreed that the People have the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:24 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Flatfish

For crying out loud.

A well regulated militia does NOT mean the right of the people.

People need GUNZ to form militias.

People need GUNZ to hunt for food, and PROTECT their homes.

TWO separate things there.

What gun control has effectively done you know that FASCIST concept has reduced the modern American to what we once were.

Out gunned like before the Revolutionary War.

And we owe our THANKS to the French and the Dutch for arming us.

Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.


When someone joins the military here in America and they get introduced to military regulations, like for instance the military code of conduct, what are they to assume those regulations apply to, if not the people in the military?

The military probably has more regulations than any profession I can think of and yes, they are meant to regulate those people who are in the military.

And yes that's what it means when it says a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state....

I can't imagine a chaotic, unregulated militia being of much use, can you?

edit on 6-10-2015 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

The people.

The militia.

Are two INDEPENDENT things from the STATE.

Try again.

And Well 'regulated' doesn't mean the state the cops, an d criminal are being BETTER armed than the 'We the people'.

That is NOT what that meant.

Let me say the SAME THING another way.

Gun RIGHTS is the SAME thing as Gay RIGHTS.

Deal.
edit on 6-10-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: SaltyRibeye
a reply to: ~Lucidity


You use a leftist rag as a source of information about the 2nd amendment, and you're surprised when you're proven wrong?

really?

Why not try the brady campaign next time for your 2nd Amendment information, theyd be just as reliable as politico.


Proven wrong about?



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Want to try again ?

I am not IGNORING the rest of the Bill of RIght's and the 14th amendment.

The founders intent was CLEAR.

Try reading the 5th,9th, and 14th amendments.

Then think of the second.


Try what again? Are you going to link me to a page on periods next?



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: ~Lucidity

" The Founders never intended to create an unregulated individual right to a gun. Today, millions believe they did. Here’s how it happened. "

If that was the Case , where did All the Colonists who Volunteered to Fight for Independence from the British get their Firearms ?



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:40 PM
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originally posted by: Phoenix
a reply to: ~Lucidity

How about the original in the library of Congress, is that not the "official" copy - the one which copies were made from? The one which federal government should refer to?

And yes it matters how many commas because that's where anti-second folks get the idea that it covers members of militia and not the people.

I think reason you'd muddle comma issue is it destroys the entire stance of anti argument having any constitutional stance.

How does one arrive at the conclusion that a manually transcribed copy with added commas is superior to the original.







Apparently (from what I remember and I'm not looking again) the one there is different than the one entered into record on the floor. And again there are differences in the numbers of commas in the 8 of 13 they still have access too.

I don't "muddle" the comma issue. They were apparently inconsistent in their writing/scribing/use of the commas, so there's nothing to really discuss there.

If the commas in the ones the 8 that returned their copies ratified were different, would you then argue that what they ratified is different?

And where did I arrive at any conclusion of superiority or inferiority?



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:40 PM
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Guns were something people used to eat with back then. This is complete bull#, of COURSE the founding fathers were saying the people had the right to own guns. I'm sure they would have gone into more detail if the idea of limiting the right hadn't been so appalling, and obviously not something they would do.

For crying out loud, is anyone really stupid enough to think the founding fathers would have limited people of that time to not owning guns? Guns put food on the table, helped protect livestock, were really the only line of defense. If you just actually think for 5 seconds you have to realize they meant to protect the right to own firearms.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:40 PM
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originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: ~Lucidity

" The Founders never intended to create an unregulated individual right to a gun. Today, millions believe they did. Here’s how it happened. "

If that was the Case , where did All the Colonists who Volunteered to Fight for Independence from the British get their Firearms ?


Probably from the gunsmith? Or made them themselves?



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 12

Prohibition against standing army.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:43 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: ~Lucidity




I personally wouldn't go with the comma argument. More relevance and intent can be probably be derived elsewhere.


So basically ignore punctuation.

www.businessinsider.com...


By the way, is this what you meant to link to?

How A Comma Gave Americans The Right To Own Guns

Because this is what you linked to:

13 Rules For Using Commas Without Looking Like An Idiot



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: ~Lucidity

I am tired of this argue with Penn and Teller.




Caution language PG-13.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:46 PM
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originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: ~Lucidity

" The Founders never intended to create an unregulated individual right to a gun. Today, millions believe they did. Here’s how it happened. "

If that was the Case , where did All the Colonists who Volunteered to Fight for Independence from the British get their Firearms ?


Probably from the gunsmith? Or made them themselves?





There was no Law Prohibiting that back then ? Without their Personal Firearms the Revolutionary War would have Never been Fought........



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:47 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: ~Lucidity

I am tired of this argue with Penn and Teller.

[Removed Video]

Caution language PG-13.


Tired of what? Talking about commas?

Do Penn and Teller address the inconsistencies? If not, I'll pass.
edit on 10/6/2015 by ~Lucidity because: removed video from quote



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: ~Lucidity



Note: The following text is a transcription of the first ten amendments to the Constitution in their original form. These amendments were ratified December 15, 1791, and form what is known as the "Bill of Rights."




Amendment II A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.




Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.




Amendment V No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.




Amendment VI In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense




Amendment VII In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.




Amendment VIII Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.




Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.




Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.




Amendment XIV Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


ALL of these deal with gun RIGHTS.

www.legendsofamerica.com...

I am tired of people refusing the READ the Bill of Rights.

It's spelled out for ALL to see.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Flatfish

The people.

The militia.

Are two INDEPENDENT things from the STATE.

Try again.

And Well 'regulated' doesn't mean the state the cops, an d criminal are being BETTER armed than the 'We the people'.

That is NOT what that meant.

Let me say the SAME THING another way.

Gun RIGHTS is the SAME thing as Gay RIGHTS.

Deal.


I never thought I'd hear myself say this but, you're quite right.

For starters, At the time the 2nd amendment was written, there were NO states, only colonies.

Based on that fact, one can only assume that the phrase "security of a free state" is referring to the security of our "nation state" and not individual states which did not exist.

The colonial militias were essentially conglomerations of armed citizens who organized and banned together for the purpose of defending their colonial territory.

The militia members, or "people," were responsible for bringing their own gun to the fight so they essentially served as the militia's armory and for that reason, their right to bear arms was protected.

Now I'm not for banning all guns or gun confiscation, but I do believe the 2nd amendment is outdated and in need of revision and that it's time to adopt some reasonable gun regulations that are proven to work.

And, as Foreest Gump would put it, that's all I have to say about that.
edit on 6-10-2015 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:00 PM
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Just a modest proposal, find a State that would be willing to overturn the Second within their borders. I would suggest a small state like Rhode Island or Massachusetts. Might not want to try Vermont or New Hampshire for some obvious reasons. Providing you could find such a state whose elected officials thought they could get away with it or just didn't care about reelection, give it a shot. The exodus of population and increased crime rates on the defenseless remaining people should settle the argument once and for all.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

They became states when they ratified the Constitution, no? Could be that the C and the BoR were written with that future in mind, but that's just more semantics and ambiguity.

I'm still both disappointed in and suspicious of the NRA's partnerships with gun makers and influence over some in government.



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